Contests?

[Calligirl]

After being here a little while, I've gotten the message of 'no spec work'. Does logo contests for local events fall into that catagory?

Two instances come to my mind in asking this:
1. Every year, the city has an outdoor three day festival and every year, choose a different logo for their t-shirts. The contest has become somewhat popular and there's a community interest in seeing the new designs. The artist gets recognition in the paper for the design and I forget what else, don't remember if prize money is part of it.

2. Noticed in yesterday's paper that a nearby city is having their 150th celebration and is having a logo contest. No money given out and all designs are to be given up to the city.

Just wondering how ya'll feel about these. If someone's trying to pad the portfolio, is it worth it to spend some time working on such things?

[PrintDriver]

Are the festivals non-profit or for a good cause?
Is it something you are interested in?

Just remember, if there is no pre-recognition value, you have to win in order to get a return on your time investment.

I'm a firm believer, as far as contests go, that if there is a prize I want to win, I might enter but wouldn't invest more time than the object would cost retail. If the prize is only glory, I probably wouldn't enter.

[tinmanton]

If what you're realy after is the prize (money)... if I were you, I'd get a job that would pay me monthly, where I can further enhance my skills, practice what I know and the most important thing, start in being a graphic designer professionally. I'm not saying that joining a contest isn't professional but I find working on something that would really have a very big impact in the business level more rewarding. At least there, you'll know where your going. But thst's me....

[Jeff Fisher LogoMotives]

Much earlier in my career I would participate in such contests for nonprofit causes - until I began to notice the rights issues associated with them. When an organization is accepting design submissions from a number of designers and retaining the rights to ALL the submissions for whatever future purpose they wish, a huge red flag goes up for me - and the hair now stands up on the back of my neck. You could find your work used, even in an altered condition, in the future and have no recourse - and probably not get any credit for your work.

It annoys the hell out of me when the organization conducting the "contest" is an arts organization, design industry group, art publication, or some other related entity that should know better. The current American Artist magazine cover competition (http://www.myamericanartist.com/2006/12/cover_competiti.html) is an example. Not only do they retain all rights to the entries submitted in their "contest" but artists get the extra added bonus of paying $50 to enter. Any professional artist should be insulted and angry. I learned of this competition when a large number of users of Craigslist across the country were visiting my blog to read an entry about a similar issue (http://blog-omotives.blogspot.com/2006/08/creativity-awards-closes-book-on-cover.html). Someone is posting the article on Craigslist across the country.

A responsible organization will review past work of a number of designers and then award the project to one of the individuals with some form of compensation. I've also been in situations where two or three designers have been asked to submit rough concepts for a certain dollar amount and then, following a review of the concepts, one is selected to complete the project for additional compensation. The designers also retains all rights to the design concepts not used.

I do like giving back to the community by doing pro bono work for nonprofit organizations. However, I would much rather approach a cause in which I strongly believe offering my services to the specific group than participate in a "contest" with questionable rights issues.

Here's a couple articles on the topic:

When a "contest" is not a contest (http://www.creativelatitude.com/articles/articles_fisher_dcontest.html)

A Winning Strategy (http://www.no-spec.com/?page_id=82)

Of course, the rest of the No!Spec site (http://www.no-spec.com/) is also a good source of additional information.

- J.

[daSnarf]

That was a great post Jeff. :)

[Derfie]

[QUOTE=

It annoys the hell out of me when the organization conducting the "contest" is an arts organization, design industry group, art publication, or some other related entity that should know better. The current American Artist magazine cover competition (http://www.myamericanartist.com/2006/12/cover_competiti.html) is an example. Not only do they retain all rights to the entries submitted in their "contest" but artists get the extra added bonus of paying $50 to enter. Any professional artist should be insulted and angry. I learned of this competition when a large number of users of Craigslist across the country were visiting my blog to read an entry about a similar issue (http://blog-omotives.blogspot.com/2006/08/creativity-awards-closes-book-on-cover.html). Someone is posting the article on Craigslist across the country.

[/QUOTE]

American Artist Magazine should be ashamed of themselves. I can't believe a magazine that deals with the arts and art issues would have a such a competition. I have seen other fine art magazines that have competitions for already created or new work, and the winner might be featured on the cover. The entry fees are much less, and the rights usually revert back to the artist, not to mention there is usually a sizable money prize.

[Jeff Fisher LogoMotives]

American Artist Magazine should be ashamed of themselves. I can't believe a magazine that deals with the arts and art issues would have a such a competition. I have seen other fine art magazines that have competitions for already created or new work, and the winner might be featured on the cover. The entry fees are much less, and the rights usually revert back to the artist, not to mention there is usually a sizable money prize.

I ended up writing a bLog-oMotives entry (http://blog-omotives.blogspot.com/2007/01/sign-your-rights-away-for-fame-and.html) about this today.

- J.

[budafist]

I wouldn't do it.

I've got work piling up. Working for a chance of a prize isn't worth it to me.

If you're bored out of your mind and need some practice though, then I guess it's ok.

[Gear]

You receive a "call for entries" in the mail for the latest graphic design competition with certificates and an annual.

Competition A charges a flat entry fee with no publication fees. $50 per entry. I enter 5. I'm charged $250. Two of my entries win. My total $250.

Competition B charges $25 per entry. But they charge a $25 publication fee per winning entry. I enter the same 5. I'm charged $125. The same two win. I'm charged $50 in publication fees. My total $175.

So which competition would you enter? Is this a no-brainer? Does it make sense to enter competitions that charge a flat fee? They say they aren't charging a publication fee but . . .,

[tZ]

In the end it all comes down to what you need to do.

If you need or even want to enter a contest then do.

Everyone can tell you the cons but, in the end it really doesn't matter.

So I don't get why people ask these types of questions when they pretty much already know the consensus.

hell, I've even entered a few contest and I know the pros and cons but, do I think that makes me less of a person or designer- not really.

So if you want then do and if don't then don't. I don't really know why you need other people to tell you what to do when you pretty much already know the stance.

- end of rant

[PrintDriver]

If none of your work wins, you're out the money. You only need to decide if the thrill, the glory and the trophy are worth the price.

Better question: Does winning awards impress anybody? Clients? Peers? Possible employers? Or is entering just for the thrill?

[budafist]

Paying money for entering a design competition is completely foreign to me. Since when did that become a business? Can I start up a design contest and sit back and watch my bank account go up?

Sounds like a scam to me.

I'm pretty sure that design competitions around here are free. You get money if you win, awards/certificates and prestige. They are sponsored by companies like paper companies and print or advertising. What would they want with your measly $50?

[PrintDriver]

A lot of juried award competitions require an entry fee. It's a prestige thing to have very well known jurors for a competition and I do believe the jurors are paid along the same lines as if they were doing a seminar. Heck, my local Arts Council charges $25 to enter 3 pieces of art into the spring juried show with no guarantee any of them will get on the wall. But the 3 top winners get their own show in the fall for the Harvest Festival.

[Jeff Fisher LogoMotives]

Paying money for entering a design competition is completely foreign to me. Since when did that become a business? Can I start up a design contest and sit back and watch my bank account go up?


Design and advertising competitions have charged both entry fees - and publication or hanging fees for exhibits - for many years. Some competitions are pretty much "awards for purchase" and it's BIG business. Those are ones to avoid - look for the ones with proven track records and those that may benefit you/your business the most professionally. I give serious consideration to the competitions that may give my logo design work the greatest exposure. For me the fees paid for competition entries and publication fees are part of my marketing budget (especially since I do no traditional paid advertising of any kind).

The result are worthwhile for me. The vast majority of new clients coming my way tell me they have seen my work while flipping though design books at their local bookstore.

Here's a couple related articles I've written:

A winning strategy (http://www.no-spec.com/?page_id=82)

When a "contest" is not a contest (http://blog-omotives.blogspot.com/2006/01/when-contest-is-not-contest.html)

- J.

[Jeff Fisher LogoMotives]

....and I do believe the jurors are paid along the same lines as if they were doing a seminar.

I've never been paid for judging awards competitions over the years - but my travel, lodging and meals have been paid for during such activities.

- J.

[budafist]

I guess it would be ok if the competition was very prestigious and you were impressed by the work of the winning entries in past years.

It's not something I'm used used here but if it were a competition that I'd heard of and the winners in the past were designers I admired, then that would be ok.

If it were a contest that I'd never heard of before or was in its first year of running I would not consider entering.

[tZ]

Never enter contest were you have to show your ideas or post them online for everyone to see either because people are f**kin thieves.* I can't believe I'm giving contest advice*. Conceptual thieves more so then compositional thieves since, a concept is pretty subjective but, a composition isn't. People don't usually care either because they are holding a design contest in the first place. If someone wants to take your idea and build something better of it they have no problem and normally disregard the offense. So watch out for those. * why am I giving contest advice*,lol

[DougFa]

I have personally NOT participated in the "local" design contests.

Many of these entities are "self-serving" and really not worth the time in my opinion.

That being said, if you are interested (again, I am talking local) in infiltrating a particular organization/association it might be a saavy strategy.

Just carefully review your strategy of possible outcomes. For example, could I get to know the decision maker of the organization? can I be introduced to other community leaders with deep rolodexes? Of course you have to do your homework.

I did do this very thing and it produced a very long term and lucrative client ;-)

In my mind this "strategy" is an equivalent of the little postcard tacked in the corner of the bulletin board (with the white, flat tumbtacks that are hard to remove) that will often bear a serious, long-term client.

In the end it's about trying to forge new (and beneficial) relationships.

All the best,

Doug

[Ned]

If this organization is for a worthy cause and don't have a big budget, there is absolutely no reason that they can't find a designer who's work they admire (as seen in their portfolio), and ASK said designer if they would do the job pro-bono. Then everybody will win. The designer can get whatever compensation (s)he desires, such as the exposure and attention his/her logo will provide for his/her portfolio, and the organization will have their logo for.. guess what...even cheaper than putting on a contest... and, NOBODY will be working for free!

If this organization is a for-profit cause and/or has a good sized budget, then there is no reason they can't find a designer and HIRE him/her.

That's all I have to say. Good-bye.

*Disclaimer: I did not actually read all the posts in this thread, I just got a general gist of it, but don't want to spend anymore energy on spec work debates than I just did. So if I missed an important aspect to the post, I apologize.

[thecat@]

After being here a little while, I've gotten the message of 'no spec work'. Does logo contests for local events fall into that catagory?

You are creating new work on the 'spec'ulation you'll win.

Just wondering how ya'll feel about these. If someone's trying to pad the portfolio, is it worth it to spend some time working on such things?

No secret really about how I feel :-D

If you need to pad your portfolio, how is a logo competition going to do that other than as a pretty placeholder? Sure, you might have a design. And you may have learned a new style. But what you won't have is a clear understanding of working with that particular client.

A successful design is not just about the end product. It's about the communication and understanding that got you to there.

Logo contests only have a teensy brief given out with no back and forth. But the original design brief is only the first step into the design process.

And when you shop your portfolio around, perhaps you should keep that in mind. Instead of plopping your book in front of a potential client/employer, make sure that each design has a story you can tell on how you solved a particular problem. Because there sits the importance of what we do.

[tZ]

thecat@ wrote

make sure that each design has a story you can tell on how you solved a particular problem. Because there sits the importance of what we do.


Well said.

[thecat@]

Ta :-)

Truthfully, I'm not 100% against contests IF they could be rearranged to give value. (Ok, I'll have to admit, late last year if someone said 'contest' I'd turn red faced and spout fire and brimstone because I was so tired of the word.)

Take a student contest. If it could be tied in with a grade, where each student had access to the client, THEN it would have value. The students gain by receiving real world instruction from their teachers and real world experience when dealing with clients.

Then when they shop their portfolio around, potential clients / employers don't look at them with glazed eyes as they are presented with yet another 'style' portfolio.