Advise needed

[seamas]

Hi all,
I have currently undertaken a freelance project, where I am inheriting a project from 2 (or 3) previous designers.


The project sounds simple enough: Create a “pocketbook” (4.25X9.5) version of an already published travel/golf book (slightly larger than magazine size)


Most of the design work is completed, so certain considerations of changing format have already been done.


Here is the big BUT:


The original designers (overseas) decided to put this 200+ page book together in Illustrator.:eek:


From what I can tell, these files are royaly screwd up.
Instead of using tabs, the designer used a space bar.:eek:


On some pages, the where there are photos, the whole page layout was done in Photoshop, then the whole page was placed into Illustrator, then the text added.

I’m not kidding. If I need to move one photo over, I’d have to open the background in photoshop and do it there (most of the Photoshop document consists of white where the text should go):eek:

As for the Illustrator files, each file is set up as 2 facing pages., with “crop marks” put onto another layer.


I’ve taken a look at some of these files with “invisible characters turned on” and in “outline mode”


There are uncolored lines and shapes and “text dots”all over the place.:eek:


The problem on top of this is the publisher (who isn’t that experienced) wants this done as fast as possible. Before actually seeing the files I quoted the project at 20-24 hours of work.

Now I am thinking otherwise.


Any suggestions on how to go about this without rebuilding the entire thing properly in InDesign?

The only thing I can see as feasible is to place the Illy files in InDy and send the thing off as a press ready PDF.


Thanks for any suggestions.

[jimking]

They want it fast, that's what I would do. Without redoing everything I'd place it in Indy.

[mac.FINN]

I'd say f*** 'em.... but them I'm in a bad mood.

[seamas]

Hmmm,

I think I'll take care of the page numbering there too. (they numbered each page in Illy).

[seamas]

And as for sending this off to print, PDF would be my best option, right?

I mean I can't really "package" the illustrator files like I'd be able to in Indesign.

In other words, say I assemble this in Indesign, using the "package" command will not collect the photos & fonts placed in the Illy files, will it?

[jimking]

As a printer I'd except a print ready pdf but I'd also would like the native files because if that pdf has problems I'll have the natives files as a backup. Go head and collect and see what it gives you. And what it doesn't then go fetch it. :)

[seamas]

Thanks.

I haven't yet received the most recent files, but have seen the ones done as of around Christmas time and they are a mess.

I hope all the photo files are delivered named properly. It is sort of a travel book, so it is loaded with photos. (a mish mosh of jpegs and psd's - ugh)

The previous designers are inThailand, as is the printer.

[frankster]

Bleugh! That sounds horrible. Good luck with it!

[seamas]

Thanks, I am charging by the hour.
He wants it Sunday, so I'll be at it afterwork for 4-5 hours till Friday and then possibly all day Saturday.

If that doesn't get it done, he'll need to wait.

[Derfie]

I feel your pain-when I started my job I inherited 50 sell sheets that were done in Photoshop. Every bit of type/pricing information was on it's own raterized "untilted" layer. The each files had over 100 layers (not titled and rasterized type), a picture of the product would have letters to correspond to the pricing. Each letter was on a seperate layer.

Good Luck with the job, I would probably take the easy way out and put into InDesign.

[Virgo Nightingale]

Sounds like something I'd have a toss-n-turn-n-mumble-in-my-sleep nightmare about. Yeesh. I feel for ya....

[seamas]

It is just astounding that people will go out of their way to do these things so incorrectly.


Doing layout in Photoshop is maddeningly dumb.

[Derfie]

^^
Agreed!

[budafist]

Sounds infuriating!

[Exodus]

Wow, that sucks. Good luck. It would have taken less time to do in InDy in the first place. Those "designers" need to be cane'd! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning)

[mattbing]

I'd explain to the client the problem you've run into, and that it's going to take a considerable amount of time JUST to convert the files to a proper format, do this first off. Then redo the book in InDesign if they approve of this. I don't know how much you need this particular job but it's going to be a nightmare if you accept it like this.

I've run into similar situations but not on this scale.
What the hell is wrong with people, lazy? dumb? or both? I dunno.

EDIT: I have to admit I did do a brochure layout in Freehand when I started out... but at least it had pages/styles.

[jimking]

As a prepress tech I've seen files like this many many times. Years ago many jobs were created in Illy and PS only. It's not half as bad as it used to be. One of the reasons for this is not having all the tools to do the job correctly problably because of monetary reasons. This particular job seems to have started with limited tools and because it's been passed around for a few years maybe, and then toss in a tight deadline, this is what you end up with, a snowball effect. I would do as Mattbing suggested and explain to the client how this job is out of whack. Explain to them by you straightening it out it'll look much better, the turnaround will be quicker. This will also make the job much easier to turn around in the future. Maybe there's a chance to make more money.

[colonel5]

ouch, that's tough, especially when on a tight deadline because they're not going to understand the technical reasons of why it should be redone.

I'd agree with most others here, finish what the other designers started and try to relay after the project is done that there is a much better and easier way to do something like that to instill confidence in them coming back to you in the future.

[seamas]

Thanks for the replies and advise.

I only recieved the most recent versions of this book last night, and the files are no less screwed up than the earlier versions.

How the original book ever got printed is beyond me.

I did certainly relay to the client that prospects do not look good for a speedy turnaround.

My original estimate of 20 hours of work was based on the assumption that a majority of the pages I recieve would already be completed, and the client knows this.
I am charging him by the hour, at a higher rate than whatever he was paying the designers in Thailand.
Having spent about 3 or 4 hours already, mostly pawing through this garbage and only having a half dozen or so pages of to the copy editor, I'llhave to tell the client that this will take at least 40 hours - and I won't be totally rebuilding it in Indesign -I'll mostly be fixing the Illy files and re-configuring the links, etc.


Some of the file sizes of the Illy pages are around 53mb.
I think they embedded the full sized layered photoshop files (instead of resizing the originals and flattening them.)

Some of the pages I got last night have all the text in the paragraphs all disconnected. (like when you open some pdfs in Illustrator).
Completely bizzare.

Then there are missing fonts - luckily most of those are bullet points and blank spaces.

Did I mention that the original designers didn't know how to set up tabs?

They had halfway decent design sensibilities, but were clueless how to execute.

The bad half of the design sense was the drop shadows and outer glows on the headlines, etc.
It looked Ok on the full sized book, but will probably look messy on the smaller scale.

I'd love to itemize for you how many screw-ups are on this thing.

[seamas]

Well, here is the update.

All the new files are even more F.U.B.A.R than the earlier ones.

Text is all disconnected (as if placed from a PDF or something) photos missing, broken links, just a plain mess.
Plus the original designer set up the Illy pages as spreads -and added the crop area to the inside. So I'd have to retool that before bringing the spreads to InDesign.

So I gave the client the time estimate with my hourly rate, and he balked.
He's under the impression that a 200 page full color magazine/book (averaging 2-4 graphics or photos per page) shouldn't take 50-60 hours even when built from scratch.

He claims he never pays designers more than $xx per hour and gets them off of Craig's List when hiring U.S. designers (which makes me wonder what he pays for the designers overseas.)

So I'm out of this one.
Actually glad to walk away from this.

[urstwile]

Wow, sounds like a mess, and I think you made the right choice walking away from this.

On a not-entirely-related note, has anyone read about this: PDF to InDesign (http://indesignsecrets.com/pdf-to-indesign-i-have-seen-the-future.php)

[Exodus]

On a not-entirely-related note, has anyone read about this: PDF to InDesign (http://indesignsecrets.com/pdf-to-indesign-i-have-seen-the-future.php)

:eek:

*drool*

[urstwile]

That was my reaction too, Exodus.

I'd love to see how it works once they get it out of beta. Hopefully they'll have a demo version for people to check out for a limited time. As with all conversion software, things get lost in the shuffle, but if this does what it purports to do, think of how much time would be saved in the re-creation process?

[seamas]

Wow, sounds like a mess, and I think you made the right choice walking away from this.

On a not-entirely-related note, has anyone read about this: PDF to InDesign (http://indesignsecrets.com/pdf-to-indesign-i-have-seen-the-future.php)


I feel fine about it.

I have a full time job in-house, plus a 2 year old son and a 4 week old daughter - so my time is valuable for other reasons too. (I'm seeing someone tomorrow about another lead though!)

Trying to stay on (or close) this guy's deadline would have meant no family time whatsoever for a week or more, at a rate that lower than my full time job and less than a third of my freelance fee.

No thanks.

They guy has a fairly succesful publication in spite of the fact that A: he isn't an experienced publisher, B: he hires "pick up" designers & production people.