Raise discrimination laws??

[Jackimalyn]

Does anyone know if there are laws that say you cannot use a person's age against them when determining initial salary and/or raises? I know theres anti-age discrimination laws about considering for employment but how about for pay?

I know an employer can always say that its not your age but lack of experience... etc. but jus twant to know if theres anything that says this?

[DesignStudio]

the age discrimination in employment act (ADEA of 1967) which is the original act, does not cover what is now called, "reverse age discrimination", discrimination on hiring or any employment opportunities because of being young. It only applies to those over 40, being discriminated against because of their old age. There have been updates to the ADEA, such as the 1975 age discrimination act, and this act does include a few more specific provisions that dissalow any type of age discrimination, but this is only for organizations that recieve federal funding.

Your best leg to stand on if something was going on would be the Equal Pay Act, which was primarily laid out to prevent sex discrimination, but prohibits disparities in pay for any jobs within one establishment which require the same level of: skill, effort, responsibility, and working conditions. This act does however allow for pay differentials when there is an "affirmative defense" which includes but isn't limited to seniority, merit, quantity or quality of production, or any defendable criteria other than sex. Pretty much reverse age discrimination can always always be played off as experience, merit, or seniority. Even if the other candidate is 20 years older than you but has less years experience at your particular job, it is defendable for the employer to say the decision is based on general work experience.

Basically, there is no established act for this, and no one has ever won a supreme court case for reverse age discrimination, particularly not for salary- which is pretty much what needs to happen for an act to be enacted covering the issue. but if this is going on where you work, perhaps you could be the first. Generally most work environments do promote on merit, so hopefully if this is happening, you can keep working hard and soon move past it when you show you're a more qualified candidate of greater benifit to the company.

Now, all that said, all of this is assuming that you're working for an organization of greater than 20 people. Because, any business of 19 or less employees, is pretty much exempt from the ADEA, the equal pay act, and pretty much any other act of discrimination. If you have less than 20 employees for some reason you're allowed to discriminate against old people, drug addicts in rehab, pregnant women, all kinds of things that legally can't be taken into consideration at larger firms.

All that and i still got a "C" for sleeping through freshman economics. Thank you wasted brain full of useless information. anyway, hope this helps.

[jimking]

Never heard of one and I don't think there should be. Can you imagine the federal or local governments dictating what someone at what age should make at what trade, at what time of your life. I think it would lead to more discrimination and economic disaster. And of course having lawyers representing the federal and local governments making these decisions I'm sure they will find a way to pad the pockets of their favorite law firm and knocking down the pay for whom lawyers really dislike...............doctors.
End of rant.;)

[Jackimalyn]

thats not what i mean jimking, i mean actually telling someone they cant earn a certain salary just because theyre too young. It should be based on your responsibilities and job description, size of company, your dispensability etc.

Thanks design studio... wheres that from? Can you site it from somewhere (so i dont day "DesignStudio from the GDF told me so...) Thank you, it helps a lot.

[Drorain]

if they ask you your age or base your pay on your age, that is a problem...if it's based on years in the field, that is something you can't really argue, other than walking out to bigger and better things.

[Jackimalyn]

yea, thats what im saying drorain. Im only 20 and my boss knows it and I have my review coming up. I want to be able to defend myself with a law if need be. I dont want to leave if he does it, I just want to be prepared to tell him hes not allowed to do that

[DesignStudio]

uh, most of that was from my head, so i'm only about 95% certain of the accuracy. you can site like my middle school civics teacher, i can't rember his name but he tought at Dundee Middle school and he really liked the colts. also whichever econ professor's lecture i slept through at U of M.

Ok honestly though if you want some sources, i'd try google searching or wikipedia the ADEA of 1967, the equal pay act, which i believe is of 1963, the age discrimination act of 1975 (but that one only ads in federal funding etc) and then i'm not sure what document would contain the information about the 20 imployees. probably all of them will have that clause in there somehwere, just try searching something like "equal employment act, 20 employees" or something and i'm sure you'll find a source. sorry i don't have better sources, if i wasn't so lazy i'd just look em up for you. good luck.

[DesignStudio]

ah in that case i'd say you're fighting a losing battle jackimalyn. the best you're going to get out of that one is a moral victory. unless he specifically says, "i would have given you a better raise because you earned it according to your merit as shown in this review, but I chose to give you less based on your age.", you really aren't going to have a leg to stand on. at best you're rightfully accusing your boss of discrimination, and even if you find a clear cut law to cite, he'll easily claim another reason for your review raise and you'll be left with an accusation you can't take back and an uncomfortable work situation. The best thing to do if this happens, is just say something like, "I know i'm young, but i'm also very experienced and motivated to succeed, so what else can i do so that i can earn the highest possible raise based on my merits at my next review, despite my young age?" This will not negotiate you a higher raise now, but it will show that you're aware that he is aware you are young, and make him consious not to base your raise on that next time. If you get him to spell out a few things for your, even give you a list in writing, it gives you a huge leg to stand on at your next review if you don't get your max raise and you successfully met everything he outlined for you at this review. it makes it hard for him to use anything other than that checklist to base your raise on.

i did have the fortunate position once, of being able to tell my boss exactly what i thought about his raise and the way he ran his business into the ground. I worked somewhere where we had an excellent boss who got promoted to regional management, and we got a new boss who was a joke. i always got the max raise with my old boss, and was counted as somewhat of an advisor, or expert on alot of things that weren't really in my job description because he knew i was a good head to troubleshoot with. anyway, the new boss was an idiot, and still demanded i do all kinds of things not in my job description at all, and when i was stretched too thin to complete the work of five people, ( i did successfully complete the work of about 3.5 people) he gave me a lowered raise on my review. i was in the rare position to not only be leaving that job, but not to need his recommendation or referral for my next job, since i was leaving to start my own company and i was my own next boss. so, it was about the best feeling in the world to tell him what a monumental mistake he was making by pissing me off, point out all the ridiculous ways he was flushing money down the toilet with the model of innefficiency he called a business, and point out exactly the ways he would regret not having me around when i was gone, by detailing all the duties that i did that weren't in my description and that my replacement would not likely know how to do. probably the best kicker to the whole story, is that i found out later from a friend still at the company, that they had hired on four people to try to fill the void i left, and were still looking for help, including a new management position to help take care of some of my old responsibilities. nothing like a good solid, "i told you so".

Anyway, it sounds like you are not in the same position and that you'd like to keep your job and continue to earn raises and hopefully promotions. so, i won't pretend that i'm a wise man living on a hill doling out advice, but i will say that there's a time when you have to bite it and just play the game with the big picture in mind, and this is probably one of those times. if you aren't someone who can do that, and you just can't stand having boss's who aren't as smart as you, then you might need to take the road less traveled and think about going out on your own. maybe, "jakimalyn design" has a nice ring to it. anyway, good luck, hope things turn out for the best.

[Jackimalyn]

Yea DS, I just want to cover every angle because Im asking for a hefty raise come my review and wont accept less. Thank you so much for your help, Its not for a while but ill let you know how it goes!!

[PrintDriver]

There's nothing that says you can't ask for a hefty raise. But a little digging shows you graduated from school last June. While you can view a denial of the hefty raise as age discrimanation, my guess is there is still much for you to learn in the industry.

I'm not saying you have to work for a pauper's wage but I'd be very wary of trying for much more than the average salary being touted for your area. Bearing in mind those Salary.com places tend to be a little high in their estimates.

Be more prepared to explain ways you have helped the company move forward, any things you've done to increase cash flow or things that may have streamlined production. Always promote the positive aspects of what you have brought to the company. Flinging 'threats' at your boss is not a way to get a raise and if he is the type of boss that you suspect of any kind of discrimination, it may fuel his fire to get rid of you at the first opportunity (don't ever grasp onto the notion that you are irreplaceable. A rough stone in anyone's craw is always replaceable.)

Also, if you don't get the raise you are hoping for, come up with a list of goals that you and he agree will get you what you are looking for. If he isn't in the mood to listen, seriously consider where-to next.