do freelancers use templates?

[razuel]

The guy I'm doing work with right now (side freelance work) likes to land clients and buy templates from template monster for like 60 bucks then personalize them.. charging hundreds for the client.

Do other freelancers do this? I really don't like it.. gives me no portfolio material, no creative freedom..

[Drazan]

Not unless the client brings me one first.

On the same hand - how much is the freelancer "personalizing" them. If he uses it as a base and completely converts it to the customer's look and feel - to the point it's hardly if even reconizable from the original... ok.

The point I like to get across to customers that think about using a template is that if a net surfer who's looking for a product that they carry see to competitve sites with and obvious "template" look. The net surfer may be distrustful of the sites being low quality companies because they can't invest into their own online store.

There's thousands of sites emerging daily - do you want to be just another site, or do you want to stand out among the rest? That is where true website building that reflects the client's needs will assist the client in gaining a foothold on the net.

^^can you tell I used that in a sales catalog for work?

Templates are like delivering pizza in a Domino's car when you work for Pizza Hut. In the end it confuses the end customer and that is something to be avoided.

=)
Jade

[Neballer]

He's making money - but not being creative.
You want to be creative, and let's say - "Keep it Real."

Draz's sales catalog jargon makes a good point, the more creative your are, and the more you tailor the site to your client's needs, the more it will reflect upon you as a designer. This usually leading to more jobs. But when a trigger happy, last minute, I need this site yesterday client pulls up to your house with a boat load of cash, who can refuse.

Luckily for you, you've been "Keepin it Real" and have plenty of templates of your own you can modify to keep that boat in your yard.

[Ned]

I would say this designer is a poor designer, probably an amateur.

Whether what he's doing is right or not depends on how he's presenting himself, and how he's charging. First off, you said he's charging "hundreds of dollars". Well, that's probably what a modified template is worth. A true custom-made website is worth thousands. He's probably not charging beyond its worth. However, business integrity states that he must not falsify what he is doing. The client should know that this is a template, so when they run across it in the future on the net (whether from TemplateMonster, or from somebody else's site using the same template), that they will not feel they have been taken in.

[DesignStudio]

right said ned.

i pay *hundreds of dollars* to my subcontractors just for the programing and coding of my websites, and i think i'm getting a deal on that. i charge the client thousands, which includes a completely custom interface design, all elements of which are created from scratch (except their photos if any of course). if he's only charging in the hundreds then he's probably not overcharging for a template site, but he'll also find a tough time making a living if he's honest with his clients about using templates, as there are huge firms out there who's whole business is modified web templates, and they can charge between $100-$200 for the whole site because they aren't doing any real work and they concentrate on volume. he'll have a hard time competing against that. and if he's not being upfront with the clients, then hopefully one of them will realize he cheated them and used a template, and come back and sue his pants off. the last thing designers need is one more person out there thinking that everything we do is based on templates and "magic buttons".

as for most of us, no we don't use templates, and there's alot of individual thought and creativity that goes into every site.

[Benjamin]

Pre-designed templates will greatly restrict the process of designing a site that best conveys the client's content and messaging, and that provides the most appropriate interface.

[razuel]

That's what I've been telling him, but his response is;

"That's what they make templates for, for people like us to use so we can spend more time getting clients and less time designing them."

Thanks for the responses guys, I was afraid this is how the business was going to be, didn't want to end up designing templates for a living to have freedom.

[kyao888]

Use templates if the client is cheap and see no value in web.
Custom design for those who appreciates the value of web sites that tailor to their business.

Sometimes I will just tell the clients who are willing to pay a few thousand dollars for a web site to go to Templatemonster and find a design they like and we will develop it for them. Luckily I only have couple of those among hundred of others.

-----------------------------------
Preface Media, Inc.
eCatalog|ePages|Virtual 3D|LocateMe
URL: www.PrefaceMedia.com

[that mike guy]

That's what I've been telling him, but his response is;

"That's what they make templates for, for people like us to use so we can spend more time getting clients and less time designing them."

Thanks for the responses guys, I was afraid this is how the business was going to be, didn't want to end up designing templates for a living to have freedom.


Hes' right; this is exactly what they're for.

Ive been really tempted to use them as well, but in the end, can you imagine how much of a headach it would be if the client wants to change something at the last minute??


imagine this:

you: "ok heres your website."

cleint: "looks great! but you know what i was thinking? you know that little squiggly 3d thing in the top left corner? I'm thinking I would like that blue instead of green."

you: ......


nice one. now you're fukked. lol

.

[cnic]

REALLY!!?? People calling themselves designers are using templates!?!?!??!?

I cant believe what I am reading! From my perspective, templates are the enemy. I would feel ashamed if I used a template and called it my own, or simply didn't tell the client that I didn't design his website. I would think that using a template would kill your ability to be creative, and to learn and grow and challenge yourself. Almost everything I've learned about design I have learned while working through a challenge....

Sigh..... cough... breathless....

Cant believe that the enemy is being supported by my peers... sad story.

.

[urstwile]

Looks like a fair amount of the responses in here are agin 'em, not fer 'em, cnic.

[cnic]

Oh I'm not specifically referring to anyone in the thread.... just in general. Everyone is eluding to the "fact" that this happens, and that there are actually "designers" out there that try to justify it.

Maybe I take this stuff waaaay to serious.... but it just seems like cheating to me, like a tasty poison out to ruin your creativity and the individuality of your art.

Ok, stepping down. Rinsing the soap off my box.

.

[rmexhibition]

may want to check with some of the copyright laws of that site. I know some template sites do not allow for resale, and do the client know he is doing this? If i hired some one to do my website i would want a one of a kind creation personalized just for me, not some knock off a guy made in his basement cuz he was bored that he later sold to a template place.

[PrintDriver]

What happens when you rinse a soap box, I wonder....

[stickleback]

the real point - I think - is being mssed.

how much personalisation is going on here?

if the answer is practically none - then I agree - it's not morally right.

on the other hand if the template is used to get the basic structure (3 columns, header, footer, for example) then that's just saving time and that makes a lot of sense - we do it all the time. We buy little programmes to build our CSS files to drop in the colours, font families and the like - isn't that much the same?

question of degree and a feint line one should not cross - exactly where it is I'm not sure.....

[icekitty37]

I have used them (on client request on providing) once or twice. they are interesting, usually obviously templated. sometimes i learned a thing or two or got an idea. but i try not to use them, and i make sure to state that i create all designs custom.
they definitely aren't portfolio pieces that scream creativity....

[Kesh]

Uh, I think that's kinda lame really to rip off a premade design and sell it as your own.

[stickleback]

show me an original design .....

everyone copies - it's called inspiration

the question is whether you are u pfront about it - first to yourself and then to clients (harder)

we all look at books and steal ideas from other websites - look at the code to work out how they did this or that. Can someone explain to me where the difference lies??

[Kesh]

Stealing a template from templatemonster with all the fancy flash and graphics and then changing it around is stupid. You didn't do all that interactive stuff.

Did you tell a client, "I downloaded this that someone else made because I don't really have those skills and I'm going to mark it up about 1000%. Is that ok?"

[Drorain]

A graphic designer uses tools available to him in order to create a unique solution for a customer’s design problem. Now I ask you, creating something truly unique is wonderful, and the highest art-form, but not everyone is say…an illustrator, a photographer, a type designer, mixed media artist, or what ever else you may need for the project. Client's budgets don’t allow for you to higher on each of these specialists. I’m not going to critique your manager’s business practices…he’s found a market and clients, more power to him…honestly though, from your point of view (your not getting portfolio pieces) it sounds like your working for your competition.

Learn now the practices that he has and when you go out on your own advertise against that mentality, bring up the importance of being unique and on-of-a-kind. You’ll find a higher level and better paying client base.

I work in the invitation and stationery business as an in-house designer, we are now pushing two markets, the more generic and the more unique custom look. Customer’s love the choice offered to them, some don’t even expect that they can have something unique. That is your selling point.

As for people using templates, clip art, stock photos and illustrations, let them do what they like. You might find yourself reworking a template some day for ‘one’ client who ‘must’ have this look. Don’t limit yourself by your own disdain for certain practices, not until you can carve out your own niche in the web design industry.

[Drorain]

What happens when you rinse a soap box, I wonder....
Being a box that had once contained soap, I wonder, would it lather easily...

if you scrub hard enough would you find the search function?

[cornfed]

I actually used to do work for a template based web design company. I designed a ton of templates. The target audience was small churches who couldn't afford a site and non profit organizations who didn't have the budget. If a customer wanted a custom designed template then they had to pay extra. I think customers who knowingly use a template feel that their site uniqueness isn't all that important to their business. For example, one non profit that used one of my templates was the local alzheimers awareness organization. Their clients could care less about how this organizations web site looks. They want help taking care of alzheimers patients and occasionally held a fundraiser or two. That's it. I think templates have their place and they definitely have a target audience. Now, if someone goes and takes one of the templates I designed and reworks it to their satisfaction, I'd be all over them like white on rice for infringement. That's the cheesy part to me, not template usage.

[bejamshi]

I do like the comment Drorain made, I source out my work and most of the time to people who I do not know. How would i know they are not using a template or using a new original creation? What am I to do search the whole world wide web for the same layout? Things of this nature is very hard to pin point. The most I can ask the designer is to be original, what more can I say? Money also speaks if I can pitch out an arm and a leg for an original then yes but then again time restraints are another issue.

Even if I ask for original work I am not sure if 100% of the site they build for me is original.

[bejamshi]

If a customer wanted a custom designed template then they had to pay extra. I think customers who knowingly use a template feel that their site uniqueness isn't all that important to their business

Should I then in my questioner to the client ask if they want a template design or an original one and remind them that they will cost different?