rope in illustrator

[Typically]

Hey guys i'm trying to make a rope in illustrator but i am having a hard time. Ideally i'd like to make a brush so i can just apply it to a path. When i tried making a brush it didn't look very smooth around corners.
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j309/typically/rope.jpg

I googled for a tutorial but only found stuff in photoshop. anyone have any ideas?

[Broacher]

There's already a decent rope brush made up in the 'Goodies' folder of the CD. You might want to check it out.

[Typically]

where in the goodies folder? all i see is clipart, stock photos, and wacom 6d brushes but there is just one .ai file in the wacom folder and the file is empty.

[BJMRGTIVR6]

there are some twine brushes on teh Adobe Action Xchange.
search for Twine or rope .

[balou]

I'm using CS but go to Window/Brush Libraries/Borders-Novelty and there's a rope image in there.

[Broacher]

That's the one!

[Typically]

there are some twine brushes on teh Adobe Action Xchange.
search for Twine or rope .

thanks a bunch! i've never really tried looking there before lots of cool stuff.

balou i'm in cs2 and i don't see it thanks though

[Broacher]

The Novelty brush library is one that came off the CD. I don't know what they call it now, but it used to be 'Goodies'. But I think it's still in there, along with a bunch of other good stuff.

[quiltfacearmy]

where in the goodies folder? all i see is clipart, stock photos, and wacom 6d brushes but there is just one .ai file in the wacom folder and the file is empty.

In CS2 the brushes are in the Presets Folder.

[Ned]

You've got two problems going on with your brush, Typically.

First, you're not using a long enough stretch of artwork for your rope piece. Secondly, you're not containing it in a square area. You should have a number of rope "wraps" in the pattern piece you use, and it should cut off halfway down the middle of each end, so that it can be continued on the other piece. Remember that this is vector artwork, and Illustrator will be able to actually bend the rope around curves, much like using the reshape tool - you don't need to section it off to a small piece to get a smooth curve.

Take a look at the rope pattern brush saved in this file... http://mediamainline.com/client/brushes/rope_leaves_art.ai

The rope brush is at the bottom. It's the same one found in Windows => Brush Libraries => Borders_Novelty in CS1. Other brushes such as the laurel leaves brush are included. This is all from Adobe Inc.

That'll give you a good idea of how you should make your pattern piece for your brush.

[calebm12]

Maybe i am blind....but my novelty brush folder does not contain any rope file. Do i need to download it extra from cd......my novelty has other stuff in it...like foot prints and barbwire...but no rope!

[CkretAjint]

When I had to create a rope in illustrator for the logo shown below, I just created a custom rope brush and then expanded the appearance of it once I was complete with the letters. Custom colored it though, but for the outline the brush worked fine for me!

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1015/1416955703_85cacbdc65_o.png

[Typically]

go here http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/exchange/ and search for rope.

[calebm12]

thanks!

[meadowyck]

Oh my goodness I just spent the last hour and half looking through those downloads.
W O W
Thanks for sharing that.
So much to learn w CS3 and just not enough waking hours to learn all of it... well guess I know what I'll be doing this weekend....LOL

[teniworks]

I just found the goodies on the disk. I wish I had known about this two years ago when I first bought the suite. Thanks!

[Eraser Nubbin]

http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/exchange/index.cfm?event=extensionDetail&loc=en_us&extid=1045700#

[wienerdog]

When I had to create a rope in illustrator for the logo shown below, I just created a custom rope brush and then expanded the appearance of it once I was complete with the letters. Custom colored it though, but for the outline the brush worked fine for me!

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1015/1416955703_85cacbdc65_o.png

Wow, that's a really nice logo.

[Andy1975]

Wow, that's a really nice logo.

Yeah, I agree. You got me all jealous as well that's for sure. :o

Where in the world do you get those great ideas from? Did you 'lend' some inspiration from others or was it all your own idea? And how do you do it if so?

I am so keen on getting this type of inspiration.

[Andy1975]

When I had to create a rope in illustrator for the logo shown below, I just created a custom rope brush and then expanded the appearance of it once I was complete with the letters. Custom colored it though, but for the outline the brush worked fine for me!

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1015/1416955703_85cacbdc65_o.png

I was wondering if it it was possible for you to post a screenshot here of either your Illustrator brushes window of the above rope-effect with the swatch parts that make up the mentioned rope-effect or the swatches itself so it would be easier for all to understand the making of the effect.

Thanks to you already now if so. ;)

[CkretAjint]

I will later on. The file is 300 miles away due to the holiday time...

I'll if I can come up with a write up.

As far as concept. I didn't do the original concept, another employee did the initial sketch of it in Photoshop and then I built it in Illustrator for the sign guys. *shrugs* I do mostly production based work at my job so concepting is at a minimum on my part...

[Andy1975]

I will later on. The file is 300 miles away due to the holiday time...

I'll if I can come up with a write up.

As far as concept. I didn't do the original concept, another employee did the initial sketch of it in Photoshop and then I built it in Illustrator for the sign guys. *shrugs* I do mostly production based work at my job so concepting is at a minimum on my part...

That sounds great. I'm looking forward to the screenshots. :)

In regards to the concept I'd not dare to think that you are less skilled though you just do the production. One just has to take a quick look at the logo itself to realise that the person who did it still has to have great skills in regards to the creating process and the solving of all the technical problems that arise when making those artworks. And I usually don't say this very often but when something is so obviously impressive.

Until you post those screenshots maybe you can take a look at the rope brush I fooled around with and created in Illustrator CS2. As you can see I added the three swatches themselves with a bit of space between them and in the text and line you can see the effect applied.

Even though I adjusted several times so the end swatches meet the centre swatch's black lines you can still see a bit of a mess on the letters' and the line's ends.

I used soft curves while making the paths for the letters in order to avoid having to create another corner swatch but neither is that so important to me right now.

What is important besides the before mentioned issue though is the problem that happens in the parts of the letters that bend extremely (though there are no corners as mentioned). I.e. in the lower right part of the 'S' or the lower left part of the 'E' you can see some messy, edged parts.

I'd like to understand why this happens and what is necessary to be done in order to avoid both of the problems.

Maybe, you can help me out? :rolleyes:

4861

[CkretAjint]

Your pattern looks GREAT! For those tight like areas, I just eyed it and did the peice by hand. Pinch a little here, pull a little there and do your best to make it look like the rope it bending and not flopping... There were quite a few areas where I did it by hand on my rope logo. That entire logo took me about 6 hours to recreate from a raster image to the final peice. Definately NOT a quick and easy project to knock out!!!

[CkretAjint]

Your pattern looks quite similar to mine. Mine was a bit more curvey/xtreme with the section lines as yours are more flowy and loose. I did about 5 different brushes before I got one that I liked and used. Even then I had to modify it quite a bit to get it to look halfway decent...

[Andy1975]

Your pattern looks GREAT! For those tight like areas, I just eyed it and did the peice by hand. Pinch a little here, pull a little there and do your best to make it look like the rope it bending and not flopping... There were quite a few areas where I did it by hand on my rope logo. That entire logo took me about 6 hours to recreate from a raster image to the final peice. Definately NOT a quick and easy project to knock out!!!
Wow, thanks! I was really baffled and quite happy when you told me that the rope effect looks great. :cool:

In regards to your advice I understood them like this. The edged, messy parts that show in the letters have to be retouched by hand. Meaning that one has to cut the path at those points and manually create and apply parts that just fit in the space at the bends between the cut paths. Is that correctly understood?

Furthermore adjusting the paths by moving the anchors and/or the handles can help remove some of the same problems. This is correct as well?

There is another issue I don't understand. If you look at the line under the text you can see that the right swatch connects perfectly to the centre swatch. However if you look at the left side of the line the left swatch shows some edges and doesn't behave as the right swatch in regards to connecting. I have had a look at the left swatch and adjusted things once more after which I updated the pattern brush itself but the result is the same. This is also visible in the letters. I don't understand how this can happen. Do you have any clue about this?

I also reckon that your rope effect is nicer than mine because you use smaller pieces than I did. Mine look a bit bully and fat (if I look too much and too long for errors it suddenly seems to me like if it's a braided loaf of bread *laughing*). :D

I guess the lessons learned from this are that for the first the swatch pieces have to be tiny and small rather than large, stretched and fat. And second that the pattern brush option isn't bulletproof but rather flawed if you consider the manual work needed at those edged parts (that probably always will appear when using a pattern brush of this type where small parts connect closely in some way! Isn't that correct, too?).

There is something else about the patterns. I don't know if it's only me or if it's because I'm trying to be too much of a perfectionist here but your rope seems in it's pieces much more harmonic and the pieces proportional in size even though they stretch and turn. I.e. the horizontal line in the middle of my 'A' seems to me very much squeezed together if you compare it to the line under the text (looking at the pieces again I mean).

I thought about it and realised that I use capital letters rather than normal 'handwriting' such as you did in your logo. I guess it's taste or need or something else that decides what is used. But besides the 'squeezing' that gives me another headache. I tried to re-create what you did while 'writing' with the rope but I can't make it work completely.

For instance it is possible for me to re-create the 's' in Knots if I start writing with the paintbrush and the effect from left to right but only the lower part of the 's' where the rope crosses on top of the other rope but then can't make the upper part where the rope once more dissappears under the the previous created rope and continues to the 't'.

I figured that you cut the path at those points but it somehow seems doubtful to me since the path continues very harmonic (or maybe it's cut and just creates a very good illusion of exactly that???). The same goes for the 'o' and 'n' where the rope disappears into or under the previous rope trail but in - again - a very natural and harmonic way. I just wonder where the paths stop here and where the handmade pieces are... It's simply well done and hidden if so. :eek:

And last but not least it seems like if you cut some of the part of the rope that disappears into the 'o'. Pathfinder? Shape Modes? I'm in awe! :o

PS: Just to mention this... In this case the focus is on the rope effect but what is most interesting to me isn't that particular effect more than the principle behind the creating of swatch brushes in general and how to build one correctly and quickly as well as the technical aspect in your logo regarding the effects you made with the overlay of the ropes.

[Andy1975]

Correction to this part...!

For instance it is possible for me to re-create the 's' in Knots if I start writing with the paintbrush and the effect from ...*wrong*---> left to right<---*wrong*.... I meant right to left of course... but only the lower part of the 's' where the rope crosses on top of the other rope but then can't make the upper part where the rope once more dissappears under the the previous created rope and continues to the 't'.

Sorry about that! :o

[morea]

Sorry about that! :o

we forgive you, oh Guru of Ropes. ;)

[Andy1975]

we forgive you, oh Guru of Ropes. ;)
'Guru of ropes'..., I like that! :D:cool:

[morea]

you have earned this cookie: http://i15.tinypic.com/6bmi71k.gif

:D

[CkretAjint]

I think your biggest issue at hand here is that, as you said, the rope is to large for your image size. Simple solution? If you are using a path with a brush on it, just scale path larger! Once you make the path larger, the brush will reain the same size and fill in the path.

I wouldn't make your path with end peices, do those by hand at the end. Instead make one long straight path of your rope texture and make that your brush. Then make your shapes/letters. If the rope brush looks too bunchy on the end just 'add on' another path to the end of your brush until the rope texture looks right. Then flatten/expand the brush effect and delete what you don't want to use. I did this a LOT on mine.

As far as flowing the letters together, I just made REALLY long rope brush in Illy and applied it to my long path and then did the add on method and deleted what I didnt use.

For the rope on the 'n' that layers up on itself, that was all 1 line from the top of the K to the where it disappears behind the O. It was all clunky and funky looking once I had it over lapping on the N, so I just expanded the path and then added points to the rope texture and then deleted the parts I didn't want to see... The same method was used for the T to the end of the S. Create it, expand, add points and then trash the ones I don't want to use.

Also, don't forget shadows on your rope. I wanted to add some highlights on mine but was already behind on time and the sign shop was waiting for the design and the original designer said not to worry about it...

I am going out of town now and will try and post more on Monday about this with images. I REALLY hope I saved the files with the brushes... Normally I trash the brushes after I expanded them so they don't get passed around with the files. *crosses fingers* ;)

[Andy1975]

you have earned this cookie: http://i15.tinypic.com/6bmi71k.gif

:D



Mmmmmh..., mjam mjam! *crunch* 4864 :D

[Andy1975]

I think your biggest issue at hand here is that, as you said, the rope is to large for your image size. Simple solution? If you are using a path with a brush on it, just scale path larger! Once you make the path larger, the brush will reain the same size and fill in the path.

I wouldn't make your path with end peices, do those by hand at the end. Instead make one long straight path of your rope texture and make that your brush. Then make your shapes/letters. If the rope brush looks too bunchy on the end just 'add on' another path to the end of your brush until the rope texture looks right. Then flatten/expand the brush effect and delete what you don't want to use. I did this a LOT on mine.

As far as flowing the letters together, I just made REALLY long rope brush in Illy and applied it to my long path and then did the add on method and deleted what I didnt use.

For the rope on the 'n' that layers up on itself, that was all 1 line from the top of the K to the where it disappears behind the O. It was all clunky and funky looking once I had it over lapping on the N, so I just expanded the path and then added points to the rope texture and then deleted the parts I didn't want to see... The same method was used for the T to the end of the S. Create it, expand, add points and then trash the ones I don't want to use.

Also, don't forget shadows on your rope. I wanted to add some highlights on mine but was already behind on time and the sign shop was waiting for the design and the original designer said not to worry about it...

I am going out of town now and will try and post more on Monday about this with images. I REALLY hope I saved the files with the brushes... Normally I trash the brushes after I expanded them so they don't get passed around with the files. *crosses fingers* ;)


Okay, now I'm slowly getting your point. :)

I didn't think of the option to expand the letters with the brush effect but now it all makes sense. So that again means a lot of manual work needed to do the final touch-up, right? I can see now how this took you hours to make. :eek:

And the pulling and pinching on the anchors and handles in regards to the parts that bend is the same story as with the ends of the paths on the letters, right?

It's like being some kind of handyman... :D

Also makes sense to do the ends manually instead of with a swatch. But that also means that the pattern brush in this aspect isn't very much of a help nor does it technically seen stand the distance. Don't you think?

About scaling the path larger (or smaller)..., that might help sometimes but at times I reckon that it's not possible since the 'squeezed part' might be just within the range of the path needed in a certain artwork and a certain space available or not???

And by 'add-on another path to the brush'..., did you mean to add another piece of the rope parts to the pattern brush itself (as in making a bigger or smaller swatch?). That means that you might have to create quite a few custom pattern brushes for various letters if necessary due to their different length. Did I understand that correct?

If so isn't there any easier way to work around that problem? Seems to me like an awful lot of work but maybe that's just what it is and I'm green. :D

The shadowy and highlighted part isn't so important to me as I'd probably be able to easily create that. It seems like peanuts in relation to the other stuff. ;)

But I hope on and look very much forward to seeing those screenshots of your brushes if you are able to recover them. Now that would be swell! :cool:

[CkretAjint]

Okay, I don't have the brush any more and I am SUPER SUPER swamped today. So later tonight I will recreate it and post up smoe screen captures to explain myself on it...

Here's some screen caps to hold you over until later ;)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2318/2066086326_2ed7bce334_o.png

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2164/2066086332_b8f252001e_o.png

[CkretAjint]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2401/2066086334_3b449d0ac8_o.png

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2036/2066086340_0126ce6d43_o.png
(the drop shadow is an effect in Illustrator, NOT a filter!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2317/2066086338_ecaa69c4e6_o.png

[Andy1975]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2401/2066086334_3b449d0ac8_o.png

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2036/2066086340_0126ce6d43_o.png
(the drop shadow is an effect in Illustrator, NOT a filter!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2317/2066086338_ecaa69c4e6_o.png


Thanks for posting this. :)

This looks all really nice. I knew that the background shadow was an effect (I work with that instead of filters as it's the best anyway).

The 'grid-version' of the logo and especially the rope-text itself is very informative. I can see that you did the shadow-effect ON the rope (like in the 'o' and 'n' for instance) the way I expected it.

So far so good. Now I'm excited to see the brushes. I'm really, really grateful that you are using your time to show me this and I really appreciate it. I hope I'm not slowing you down with your normal work or keeping you from sleeping enough. ;)

Anyhow, as I said I'm looking forward to seeing this.

Until then I was wondering if you could tell me your professional opinion about the things I asked in my last post. I paste the most important one's once more for you here...

...And the pulling and pinching on the anchors and handles in regards to the parts that bend is the same story as with the ends of the paths on the letters, right?...

...Also makes sense to do the ends manually instead of with a swatch. But that also means that the pattern brush in this aspect isn't very much of a help nor does it technically seen stand the distance. Don't you think?...

...About scaling the path larger (or smaller)..., that might help sometimes but at times I reckon that it's not possible since the 'squeezed part' might be just within the range of the path needed in a certain artwork and a certain space available or not???

...And by 'add-on another path to the brush'..., did you mean to add another piece of the rope parts to the pattern brush itself (as in making a bigger or smaller swatch?). That means that you might have to create quite a few custom pattern brushes for various letters if necessary due to their different length. Did I understand that correct?...

If so isn't there any easier way to work around that problem? Seems to me like an awful lot of work but maybe that's just what it is and I'm green...

[CkretAjint]

Alex, Lookie HERE! (http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=456844#post456844)

;)

I'll come back to this thread and try to answer your questions once I am done with the tutorial.

[CkretAjint]

...And the pulling and pinching on the anchors and handles in regards to the parts that bend is the same story as with the ends of the paths on the letters, right?...


Correct. See my tutorial (post 3 in it).

...Also makes sense to do the ends manually instead of with a swatch. But that also means that the pattern brush in this aspect isn't very much of a help nor does it technically seen stand the distance. Don't you think?...

Not true. 1 little end section isn't the end of the world to draw. See the tutorial and draw them in at the end. Easy-peasy.

...About scaling the path larger (or smaller)..., that might help sometimes but at times I reckon that it's not possible since the 'squeezed part' might be just within the range of the path needed in a certain artwork and a certain space available or not???

Just make the line larger. Expand it. and then trash what you don't want. Again see the tutorial, there is a short section in there about this. I used and 'A' as a diagram image...

...And by 'add-on another path to the brush'..., did you mean to add another piece of the rope parts to the pattern brush itself (as in making a bigger or smaller swatch?). That means that you might have to create quite a few custom pattern brushes for various letters if necessary due to their different length. Did I understand that correct?...

When I first did the image, I had like 5 brushes — super short to super long. I could probably to it with a small-med one and a medium brush now that I just redid it. But yes, 1 or 2 different size brush can't hurt.

If so isn't there any easier way to work around that problem? Seems to me like an awful lot of work but maybe that's just what it is and I'm green...

No one said it would be easy. :p

[Andy1975]

Correct. See my tutorial (post 3 in it).

Not true. 1 little end section isn't the end of the world to draw. See the tutorial and draw them in at the end. Easy-peasy.
I don't think it's totally useless but in regards to this particular example where we deal with ropes (and small, tight closing objects in general) it seems to be flawed since it doesn't connect perfectly at some of the end-points. I'm thinking here of the brush in my example on the left end side.

Just make the line larger. Expand it. and then trash what you don't want. Again see the tutorial, there is a short section in there about this. I used an 'A' as a diagram image...
Yeah, I saw what you meant in your tutorial. Makes sense now. Must be the barrier in creative thinking one has at times since I couldn't see it before. :D

When I first did the image, I had like 5 brushes — super short to super long. I could probably do it with a small-med one and a medium brush now that I just redid it. But yes, 1 or 2 different size brush can't hurt.
Okay, then I got that right. I was figuring that it'll have to be this way.

No one said it would be easy. :p
Hehe! No, that's for sure that it's not easy. I can see clearly now, la-la-la ... ;)



I definitely think that you got great skills! I see you work with Macintosh whereas I used to do that during my education at Art-school and during my traineeship but usually now work on the PC. The differences aren't that great anymore and it's often cross-platform anyway.

As I was going through your tutorial (hey, and thanks an awful lot for making this! I almost have a bad conscience taking up that much time and favors from you :() I found two things that I did/would do different. And since you helped me out a LOT I thought the least thing I could do is give you some tips back.

Here they are: First of all (which you might already have noticed in my last posts) I don't use the 'Art Brush' option when making the rope. I actually always used the 'Pattern Brush' option. I don't know if that's better or worse but I guess it's taste and need. Just wanted to let you know that I did this different. :)

For the second (and this is more of a good tip ;)) I noticed that you manually copy the lines when creating the first 'rope section' and then - after joining them with the 'Divide action' copy and paste the section 'in front', then slide the piece manually sideways until the sides overlap. Then you repeat that action and copy i.e. three at a time to save time and trouble by speeding things more up and making the work effort more efficient.

Here is how I do it: When you have made your first rope section find an anchor point somewhere on the left side/path with the 'Selection tool' then (these are all Windows shortcuts but they are similar in Macintosh) while holding the mouse button and the 'Alt' and 'Shift' keys down at the same time slide the now copied section to the right side until you hit the same corresponding anchor point on the right side/path of your original section (your mouse pointer will turn from black to white color when exactly above it). Release the mouse and keys and - voila - you have a second section of the rope exactly next to the original one. Instead of painstakingly having to repeat this action now until you get the desired length you can do it more simple. You just press Ctrl-D repeatedly (with the new section actively selected!) and new sections are added exactly next to the previous one until you got the length of your rope. After that it's continuing to make the brush. Cool, eh? ;)

I reckon that for Macintosh the shortcuts must be for one 'Apple - D' and the other 'Mouse + Option + Shift' but am not sure. Try and tell me how it goes and if it isn't a time-saver. :cool:

Cheerio...

[CkretAjint]

I don't think it's totally useless but in regards to this particular example where we deal with ropes (and small, tight closing objects in general) it seems to be flawed since it doesn't connect perfectly at some of the end-points. I'm thinking here of the brush in my example on the left end side.

Try pushing a pulling your anchor points around a little bit. Make the shape SLIGHTLY largere hear and there might help them them line up. It's tough and tedious, but can be done!


Yeah, I saw what you meant in your tutorial. Makes sense now. Must be the barrier in creative thinking one has at times since I couldn't see it before.

No problem we all have them at times. Took me a few tries the first time around to figure this one out. ;)


I definitely think that you got great skills! I see you work with Macintosh whereas I used to do that during my education at Art-school and during my traineeship but usually now work on the PC. The differences aren't that great anymore and it's often cross-platform anyway.

Thanks for the positive comments. Much appreciated. Yes I work on a MAC, as you said the platforms arent THAT different anymore...


I almost have a bad conscience taking up that much time and favors from you

No worries, I actually quite enjoyed it! :)

Here they are: First of all (which you might already have noticed in my last posts) I don't use the 'Art Brush' option when making the rope. I actually always used the 'Pattern Brush' option. I don't know if that's better or worse but I guess it's taste and need. Just wanted to let you know that I did this different.

Depends on your final use, but thats what I ened up using so I just passed the knowledge along! ;)

Here is how I do it: When you have made your first rope section find an anchor point somewhere on the left side/path with the 'Selection tool' then (these are all Windows shortcuts but they are similar in Macintosh) while holding the mouse button and the 'Alt' and 'Shift' keys down at the same time slide the now copied section to the right side until you hit the same corresponding anchor point on the right side/path of your original section (your mouse pointer will turn from black to white color when exactly above it). Release the mouse and keys and - voila - you have a second section of the rope exactly next to the original one. Instead of painstakingly having to repeat this action now until you get the desired length you can do it more simple. You just press Ctrl-D repeatedly (with the new section actively selected!) and new sections are added exactly next to the previous one until you got the length of your rope. After that it's continuing to make the brush. Cool, eh?

I knew about the step and repeat/duplicate action command. Just never thought about using it there. Definately cool!!! Thanks for the pointer! :D


CHEERS!

Any more questions just post away. I'll do my best to answer them for you :D

[CkretAjint]

PS - I noticed I called you Alex a few posts up. My bad ANDY!!!! Major brain fart last night ;)

haha

[Andy1975]

PS - I noticed I called you Alex a few posts up. My bad ANDY!!!! Major brain fart last night ;)

haha

Hehe! No problemo! :D

It doesn't matter that much anyway as it is only my handle here, not my real name. ;)

I'm glad that you enjoyed helping me out. :)

Pheeew...! I was feeling bad because you had so much work creating all those detailed steps but I'm happy I could give you back a bit with the step and repeat/duplicate trick when making those sections. :cool:

So far I am cool about the pattern brush principles but there might be new questions coming up in the future and then I'll come back here (aren't there always?). :D

I'll write you a personal e-mail in a minute in order to thank you. Who knows, maybe it'll be coming in handy in the future if you or I have questions about Illustrator and get stuck. *laughing* :D:cool: