So much for ethics on campus...

[Calligirl]

Talked to the instructor about the kid that stole my prospectus and modified it.

"It sounds like it's a problem between the two of you. Since he freely admitted to you that he copied your work, he obviously didn't mean anything by it and doesn't realize that you would be upset since all of you were helping each other with your assignments. This is something that should be worked out between the two of you." Instructor went on to say that pulling up my prospectus and copying the wording is no different than using any of the others that we were using to go by even though I pointed out that he copied all of it BEHIND MY BACK, not just compiled phrases together. The only concession of any wrongdoing is that the next syllabus will contain a warning not to go into other people's files on the computer without their permission.

If I want to take the issue further, I would have to be formally called in along with the kid and a determination made of how much was taken from mine and how much MINE was taken from other places to see how much liability there is.

End of story. But hey, at least I got a Bachelor's now...anybody know of an ethical place to work...or is that a thing of the past too?

Just change my name to cynicalgirl

[CamarotaDesign]

ethics, integrity, morals and decency - thing of the past.

sorry :(

[morea]

That's disgusting. Congrats on finishing your degree. I would still (personally) go in and take the issue all the way to the top. I'd also consider sending a letter to the editor to the newspaper.

[cornfed]

That sucks. Sorry it worked out that way. At least you tried. I hate situations like this. You're left feeling so outraged and nowhere to direct it.

I also hate it when people tell you that when you get that feeling to punch a pillow.

Congrats again on the degree!!!

[Drazan]

There was once a time where something like that would have gotten a student expelled/denied credit/ etc.

Now it's just the way things are and I hate it. People expect that others aren't going to go through the hassle of pursuing things and they don't. So the people who do this just get away with things until someone big enough stands up.

Which reminds me, someone just got that "big slap" by using a logo that was based of a national company.

There's also a company around here that blantently rips stuff off of everything for their customers - and gets away with it or hasn't been noticed yet.

It just really, royally sucks that you are the victim in this mess and the higher ups don't want to do anything about it. grrrr!

congrats on the degree! Keep your head up and you'll go much further than "that kid".

Jade



If he tries that in the real world - he'll probably get his ass handed to him severely beaten by lawyers.

[reuber1]

That's disgusting. Congrats on finishing your degree. I would still (personally) go in and take the issue all the way to the top. I'd also consider sending a letter to the editor to the newspaper.
Agreed. I would be fuming right now, possibly demanding back some tuition.

And what drazan said, plagiarism is done just long enough so that people won't get caught. I don't remember my last college's policy on plagiarism, since we never really talked about it.

[Broacher]

Step one, done. Tried to resolve it professionally with your instructor. Obviously, that prof is not up to pro standards. But you've got your degree now, right? Okay, next step: don't go to the department head or division or program co-ordinator. Head straight up to president, and cc' the board of govs, and while you're at it, the state (or whatever) governing body of the schools. When you describe what happens, don't be afraid to speculate in your words about what would happen to the program, school, or system's reputation if the kind of response you received from your prof was made public. Very public. Which you may be forced to do in order to preserve the value of the degree which you honestly worked hard for and paid for with honest dollars. Have you heard of any other students with similar stories about this offender, or prof, or the program? It might be worth it to try and do so. We're talking about protecting everybody's real, cash career value of their academic credentials here. If your school gets a reputation for turning a blind eye to plagiarism, it will effect everyone.

[CamarotaDesign]

I like broachers approach, seriously, this professor better be getting a serious reprimand. There is a zero tolerance policy for plagerism at most schools.

[morea]

^ exactly. This is very well said, Broacher. Thank you for spelling it out so clearly.

[DesignerScott]

As an undergrad, in my honors English Class, a girl got caught blatently plagerizing entire essays written by a professor at Rice University, TWICE!
End result: not kicked out of school, not kicked out of honors program, failed class, got slapped on the wrist... Retook the class, and still graduated "with honors"
Talk about B.S.

[Ben Kessler]

Calligirl, what utter ****ing ****! I like this professor's reasoning: so now, if my apartment is broken into, the policemen will say: "Oh, this is just an issue for you and the thief to work out on your own"? I'm sorry about your frustrating experience. I hope it doesn't make you TOO cynical...

[PrintDriver]

I'm a little more interested in what the assignment was here. You were doing a prospectus? And you were gathering 'material' from other sources. So some of the material he stole, you stole? Or did you have some source you were all developing from?
I'm confused.

The part about going into someone else's files (in effect hacking, though I'm not sure how well protected student class files are) is almost as troublesome as the plagiarism. Were your files protected in any way? And was the person who 'borrowed' them on your development team? There are all kinds of real world corporate instances where 'borrowing' another team's or company's development is a Federal offense.

[jessicam]

I agree, PD. Bizarre that student files aren't protected in some way. That kind of system wouldn't have lasted 10 minutes in my program, just due to pranksters, much less thieves.

[PrintDriver]

^I know. Been there, done that.
I'm from the early days of computer labs and you learned REAL quick to keep your stuff backed up on several floppies.

[Calligirl]

We were given samples of other art shows' pamplets to look at in order to come up with our own and the wording of the the who, what, when, where and why were part of the assignment (which would make us copywriters also?). So yes, I'm looking at all these old prospectus' from other colleges, past years, etc. to see what is included, like liability statement, discrimination statement, etc. I'm pretty sure I didn't deliberately copy any one particular piece that I looked at. I also created a tearoff entry label for my design. But whereas I used my brain and common sense, he took the shortcut and just copied and pasted mine, changed the fonts on the lablel and moved around the order of the paragraphs in the guidelines. Oh, and he put filters on his photos so it was hard to tell if he used mine or his own.

Anyway, I'm done with it. I'm disgusted but not surprised about the instructor's response. These stunts he's pulled are no surprise to the rest of the students. There's more than one of us who are just waiting for him to crash and burn in a big way, as in getting sued in the real world. I just hope somebody lets me know when it happens!

[Patrick Shannon]

It's as I said about teachers/instructors lately. Lame.

[budafist]

I would write a letter to the head of department. Let them know that you plan on following up and would like to hear a decision by a certain date. Sure you've got your degree and that's all cool, but hopefully you will pave a better path for all students and instructors involved. Unfortunately not everyone have ethics. It might not be taught, but if there is a precedent, then perhaps people will follow it.

At least you leave with your morals. I will hope that karma finds it's way to that student.

[Cyan_Ide]

I don't see the problem. It's quite obvious that you as a concerned fellow student, looking out for the well-being of your good friend, aided in the perpetuation of his copying you.

It's a shame that more people in our society, and this profession, aren't more like you, following basic principles of sharing and caring learned way back when as children.

Why, just last week, I grabbed my friends Illustrator file of a logo he made for class and put my name on it. He got all mad and said I was 'plagiarizing!' I told him he had his 10 minute turn with the logo, and now it was time to share. Then, he went and told on me! After I patiently waited for my turn while he got to play with the cool logo! It's sad, really.

:rolleyes:

I hope everything gets sorted out. Congrats on the degree!

[idaho]

ethics, integrity, morals and decency - thing of the past.

sorry :(

ethics, integrity, morals and decency - thing of the past.

sorry :(


I disagree. They still exist and alot are more prominent in the business world today than they were say 10-20 years ago. Enron and WorldCom changed everything. Corporations are now spending millions of dollars to bring ethics to the front of their business cultures.

Many universities are starting to add ethics as major parts of the curriculum. The college I'm attending for my MBA is one of those colleges. Ethics is a HUGE part of the program.

It sounds to me like Calligirl's instructor is as unethical as the student who copied her paper. As an instructor it is his or her moral responsibility to investigate the claims of plagiarism and to not do so make his/her just as immoral as the student and should not be teaching.

Calligirl, If we are strictly talking ethics, it is your responsibilty to be the ethical one in this situation. Do you have anything to worry about if your paper is scrutinized for plagiarism? If not I would press the issue with the university administration.

[Calligirl]

Idaho, you touched on a very good point. To take this issue any further, I have to defend my own work to the nth degree, showing I'm pure while he's not. Seeing that the assignment was to look at others and determine how to write a prospectus, using phrases like 'exhibition guidelines', 'submission requirements', 'artwork shall be submitted...' and the rest of the standard jargon, where does the plagerism start?

My argument is that he didn't study any of it, he went into MY completed file and COPIED it and then started changing things around. And enough of it was left (i.e. indentations, bold, smaller size lettering, address label layout, all the little elements) to show that it was taken from mine.

The instructor stated that, 'to go further with this is to make it more than it is' and that I should just tell the kid I am upset he did this. I was very subtly warned that, should I persist, it will be my ass that's held up for inspection, not his. I don't doubt that, should I press it, and open my mouth to all the 'shortcuts' that he's taken over the past six months, it would cause him some discomfort but I would be the loser. It's a small community and no one would ever hire me because I would be branded as a whistleblower.

As much as I hate it, I'm supposed to take my degree and go home. :cool:

[idaho]

Unless you have something to hide with your own work I wouldn't worry about it. Let them put you under a microscope. If you do have something to hide then you are no better than the guy who cheated from you and should drop the matter all together.

Your instructor should be reminded that he is going to be under the microscope much more than you will. If you point out to the dean that the instructor failed to act on your complaint, which I'm assuming you can prove, and passed the student anyway, knowing that he had cheated, it'll be his ass not yours that's in a sling.

I guess what I'm saying is that you should fight for your rights. I don't know that I would go after the plagiarism as much as I would the actual theft of your files. Remember, paraphrasing and quoting other peoples work is generally ok as long as you site the source somewhere.

You can't be blackballed for being a whistleblower, assuming you live in the U.S., it is against the law.

[Calligirl]

I don't have anything to hide. I did nothing wrong, did not infringe on anyone else's rights and completed the assignment as required.

What I hate the thought of is having to be on the defensive and have to prove my innocence in order to disprove his. Just because my files were left on the computer, I'm guilty of allowing him access?

That's the type of argument that I frankly don't feel like fighting.

[budafist]

Fair enough, Calli, I guess you just take a few lessons from this - like not be so trusting of others and lock your own work up. Degree has been got. Just hope you never had to deal with these people ever again.

I'm still proud of you k?

[Samakimoto Graphics]

I'm with Broacher...

Though it would not work with my alma mater as they are one of the most sued institution in the cuountry...

[idaho]

Here's a question since we are talking about ethics. (I'm rambling on about this subject mainly because I'm currently taking a business ethics course)

We know that what the other student did was unethical. I was basically theft. We know that the professor is unethical because he won't do anything about it in order to protect himself. The question is, how ethical of a person does it make you for doing nothing about it? Does it make you a moral person for not reporting the problem or fighting for your rights?

I'm not critisizing you Calli, I'm just asking from my scholastic point of view only. This has been a very interesting topic and everyone can learn from it.

[Calligirl]

Idaho, we could argue this until the cows come home. There's always going to be unethical people in the world. I don't know what it says about me that I don't want to beat my head against the wall.

At this particular college, I know that this habit of copying/stealing off the Internet with this kid has been going on for two semesters now and obviously, the teacher is more aware than she pretends. I know that there is another student that is being waived (waved?) through some credits in order to graduate just to 'get rid of her' because of her 'problems'. I know that one student who was doing a tiling project for credit two semesters ago is now graduating without ever groating it which means it's not finished. With all this going on, I just feel that, for me to run to the higher ups and say 'he copied me' isn't going to make much impression.

I'm too old to change the world and don't have the time. I'd rather become successful than vengeful.

[budafist]

I think it is important to pick your fights. Calli has tried to fight this but in the end, what is to be gained will not be that great and she has the potential to herself harm. It's time to let this one go.

In the real world, that's where you should plan your wars!