bad decision=hatred

[madautomatic]

i stupidly decided to work on a freelance job (a cd) i found on craigslist.
i thought it'd be something fun and quick to do in the evening especially since it involved an illustration and i really miss drawing lately.
the job turned into a nightmare!!!!!!!
maybe because i'm a new designer (1 year out of school) i handled it with less grace than an experienced designer would have--though they'd have run the other way to begin with...
ok, so $100. i'm thinking 10-15 hours....more like 45 hours. endless nit-picky changes. could you make the type blue and the background white? what about white with black? what about green with white?
if i suggested something he'd have me change it. then when i would he'd like it the first way. then he emails me a 72 dpi photo and gets mad when i can't use it even after i explain why. he doesn't think i've used the cd guides---i mailed him the project with the guides. he can't print it right in acrobat like that....because he can't figure out how to adjust the size to 100%. he called at 1130pm wanting me to print it out again because he still doesn't believe i'm using the guides right!!!!!! aaaaahhhhh!!!!! where is the trust??? i used the guides!!!!! i tried to drop him earlier in the project when he was making wild changes and sucking up my time but decided to finish the job because he said only a couple of changes. but now it's gone too far and i told him to find another designer---i'm done!!! i'm so frustrated!!!
i feel like after i told him this is too much for what you are paying he just kept going with his changes. maybe i'm just a bitch to work with.
is it just craigslist? is it me? is this just freelance design? any suggestions?

[carter the artist]

it's the kind of people who use craigslist to find designers.

[frankster]

Using a well written contract will stop clients dicking you around (mostly). If they balk at signing, then balk at working with them. It doesn't have to be complicated. Morea will probably be able to send you to a zillion threads on contracts in this forum.

Make sure the joker you just dealt with knows he can't use anything you did for him without paying you for the privelidge, even if it isn't "complete". At least that way when he goes to another designer he'll have to start from scratch.

I was taken advantage of occasionally in the beginning. You wise up fast!

[Drazan]

Contract. There's quite a few threads covering this subject in the forums.

Also what I do is ask a lot of questions about the project to put in a quote to attach to the contract. Colors, images, size, etc. So all the decisions about color and font choice are made before the project gets underway.

This outline of what it should look like is then translated to the graphic project. Then my client has up to 3 to 5 additional changes before it's done.

I also recieve 50% to 100% upfront for web work. I have a pretty good portfolio of samples to give as well as online credentials through an open source project.

Also if you are going to be doing freelance then you may want to rethink your freelance pricing. Although we can't discuss pricing here. Please look over this thread.

http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26080

Don't cut yourself short and do a job that's not going to return you the dollars you need to cover your wage, taxes and overhead. Even working from home, there's a lot to consider when taking on these types of jobs.

Good luck!

[CamarotaDesign]

Mad -

Hopefully you have learned from this. About 50%-70% of clients are like this. It's a pretty shitty deal to get into. They always act all happy and easy to work with when you first take the job, then it slowly degenerates into hell.

ALWAYS have a contract. In it you state how many changes and how much time the client gets until they are happy. Always take at least a 50% upfront payment, so if you do have to cut the punkass client off, at least it's not a total loss.

Second thing... Musicians are some of the worst clients to have. They always think because they are good at one creative aspect they are good at them all and will almost always try take over your job. Furthermore,t hey usually have little money and will always try to get the most amount of work for the least amount of money.

From now on, make sure you have a contract. Read some articles on how to write them up and what they should include, there are plenty of resources here. I got screwed about 2 years ago by a group for a CD project as well, right out of school. Since coming to GDF and learning a lot about the business side of design, I know better,a nd have gotten a good grasp on how to handle clients. Anyways, I gave these douchebags a pretty slick design, that they loved, but then they only paid me $60, because I wasn't firm enough about my pricing, nor did we have a contract. (I probably spent about 20 hours on it) Live and learn, don't keep making the same mistakes. Anyways, good luck.

[Kool]

Yep, what everyone else is saying. It seems like we all have to learn this particular lesson the hard way. Just part of paying your dues. Don't get discouraged, there are a lot of good clients out there, unfortunately there are a lot of jerks too. http://home.comcast.net/~rnick9/koolsmiley.gif

[D-Frag]

When we get clients like this, we simply show them the door. To many other people out there who will trust us with our past expeirence and pay up and let us do our job. The person you are dealing with, is someone who was looking for a monkey, someone to do the work FOR THEM, even though they have an "idea" of what they want. Clients like this are unacceptable, seriously. If we get the slightest bit of slack from a client, we just kick em to the curb, not worth the time and energy of people who will nit pick something they have no idea about. Use a contract, be wise with who you do business with, and it will get better, i promise.

[CamarotaDesign]

D-Frag has the right attitude, it hurts in the beginning to turn away clients if you need the money/experience. But you need your integrity and respect more. I do the same to these types of clients I get freelance. I'm forunate to have an inhouse job that pays the bills and then I take the freelance stuff for extra money, I can do it on my own terms, and dump the client the moment they give me shit. Take D-frags advice and it will get better, I promise that too.

[Patrick Shannon]

All of the above. Also if you're working for a decent hourly rate and get a similar person again with so many nitpicky changes, at least you'll be laughing all the way to the bank.

Although they might not hire you if they know that wasting your time results in more money out of their pocket. Which is a good thing, it helps to filter out the bad from the good. Not to mention make the client thinking more carefully before they request changes that will cost them more (resulting in less changes on your part).

[budafist]

I'm really sorry that this happened to you. I guess it's a lesson learned. I'm glad that I've seen others burned by craiglist and have learned from others instead of firsthand.

[Ned]

Contract with PROOF LIMIT is what you need. That limits the number of revisions they are allowed, before you start charging extra.

I would just take your $100 and leave it at that. The 30 hours extra you spent are well worth the lessons you have now learned. :)

[Ben Kessler]

Madautomatic, welcome to GDF! Sorry you were brought here by such a bad experience. I hope things get better for you, client-wise.

[madautomatic]

Thanks for all the advice--i'll definitely use a contract next time.

[CatintheHat1]

I have a pretty tight contract and these people still enter my life...just learn to say "byeeeeeee" and end it. Return money if you have to. It's never worth what they're paying you.