Public Wi-Fi charges...outdated thinking

[Patrick Shannon]

Okay, I'm starting to find the following situation very annoying and common. I ran into this ALL the time at airports. Starbucks is very notorious for this, as is Borders. Hotels can be somewhat bad at this, depending on the location.

How many times have you been out and about - ESPECIALLY on business - and wanting to do a little work on your laptop or check your email...and dropped in a "hotspot" (coffee shop, diner, etc) advertising wi-fi and been hit with a screen asking you to "purchase" access?

Paying for public access to slow wi-fi speeds is such a ridiculous concept. Starbucks puzzles me the most on this. A big freakin' $$$ franchise like that...adding some net access and a wireless router is just a drop in the bucket for them. What's even funnier is that the local mom-and-pop shops completely get it right. No frills, no browser authorization crap, free wi-fi access for all. That's why I go to and give my money to the local mom-and-pops, they completely get it. I wouldn't be giving any business to those places if they didn't have free wi-fi.

McDonalds is even wise to this, themselves....many, many of their restaurants have free wi-fi now. While I hate McDonalds, they were my choice by default recently when I went on a short vacation. I had to desperately check my email on the road as I was going to be getting a freelancing interview with a big St. Louis design company soon. I was at a truck stop restaurant (of all places) and was psyched to detect a wireless point.....only to be greeted with that bullcrap 'payment' screen. I immediately left and went across the street to McDonalds.

Don't get me started on airports, either. That's doubly ridiculous considering the sheer volume of business people passing through. Considering what the airlines charge, oh yes they can afford a little free wi-fi access. The only airport that got it right was when I was on a transfer flight through New Mexico (I think).

Note to businesses: no one's gonna pay for your stinkin' access...they'll simply go elsewhere. This is a way outdated model and it's time to get with the times.

(And on a side note - hotels, are you listening? - browser based authentication....even for free access....is totally unnecessary for wi-fi. Ask Blackberry users how they feel about it.)

[urstwile]

All hail the mighty dollar. :)

[Samakimoto Graphics]

There are fewq Wi-Fi "hot-spots" over here, infact so far it's the major hotels, and a touristy coffee-shoppe chain that has only six shoppes country-wide, so I guess competiotion is not as high (or low).

I guess in "developing nations" the concept is new and therefore more available to woo consumers than merely as a convenience.

[PrintDriver]

Starbucks used to be free. Some of them still are. But not too long ago there were articles in some of the local newspapers about a large number of people setting up shop in their local Starbucks, not buying product but staying all day to conduct business. Some of them tried to institute time limits but that didn't work. Starbucks is not a large restaurant, relying on customer turnover for profit (yes it's a franchise but the business owner does have to consider his own bottom line). It's no wonder they and several other smaller shops started charging. Everyone pays because of a few abusers. Who'd want to sit all day in a McDonalds or conduct business there? :eek: LOL!

As for airports...a lot of airlines toe the bankruptcy line. And they know they have you by the short hairs. I know this is a 'wired' society now but cripes, if you can't wait an hour to check your email, get a phone that does it or pay the price. Hotels? Book one with free internet. Or don't. If all you are looking for is a piggy back line, do what one of my friends does and drive around til you find a wireless link left open by a careless router owner. That's quite common... ;)

[jessicam]

I was really annoyed that they charged for wifi when I did jury duty. The daily compensation wasn't a whole lot more than the cost of the wifi.

However, in our airport here it's free.

[PrintDriver]

Depending on the Jury Duty, you were lucky to even have access. There is no compensation here for less than 3 days Jury Duty anyway and if you are unlucky enough to get stuck on a longer trial, a lot of times you are instructed to avoid newsfeed of any kind. I guess I will never embrace a technology to the point of dependence where I couldn't go for at least a week without it.

[jessicam]

This wasn't when you were actually on a case, this was the waiting area where you spend a day or two sitting around waiting to find out if you get on a case. I would imagine once you are actually on one you would need to be paying attention and not fooling around on a laptop.

[Tea]

I get not wanting to pay for access, however I have been frustrated by the fact I want to enjoy a cup of coffee (I live in a remote area so this is a big treat for me) at a nice coffee shop only to find as PD pointed out, a room filled with one person at each table staring into their laptop.

These people are missing the point of a coffee shop. I think they were designed to take a break or meet with someone else in person.

However, I can understand the frustration at an airport when you have to wait for hours on end.

[idaho]

Actually I met with some of my grad school classmates yesterday at a Starbucks to study and ran into this problem. We needed internet access to check on a few items for class but were denied by the Starbucks internet Nazis.

I understand that they don't want squatters coming in and setting up shop, but it doesn't seem right to deny good paying customers access. We spent a TON of money in there yesterday but still have no internet access. That just sucks.

We've decided to go someplace else for our future get togethers. Someplace a little friendlier to its customers and a place that doesn't make you listen to Paul McCartney's new album over and over and over and over for HOURS.

[Virgo Nightingale]

My sister used to use her laptop to hop onto her next-door neighbor's wireless service. It was constantly open.

I get the idea of charging for the wi-fi service in places like coffee shops and such just because you'd other wise be getting a free service included with the relatively low price of a cup of coffee (though I guess that 'low price of a cup of coffee' wouldn't apply to Starbucks). This invites the 'campers' to linger around and take up a table for hours while only paying for a bottle of water.

I think a better idea would be to include a certain number of wi-fi service minutes with your purchase dependent on how much you spend – like half an hour with your $5 latte – and include a special code on the receipt that you'd need to enter to gain access that's only valid for a certain amount of time. When your time's up, you can opt to save your session and go back up to the counter and buy another coffee or a gourmet cookie of some sort, get another code and go back online. Time's run out and you don't want to purchase anything else? Too bad, so sad, bye-bye.

[CkretAjint]

Don't get me started on airports, either.

I agree. It is so hit or miss with them. Fort Lauderdale International is FREE. 100%!!! So while I was waiting for my flight I was chatting withmy friend online and reading up on some news sites. I get to Philly, and they want to charge me for their WiFi. I was so pissed....

Try finding a communal electric outlet while you are at the airport as well!!!!

[Jeff Fisher LogoMotives]

Yet another reason I try to avoid Starbutts. In our local area most of the independent coffee shops have free Wi-Fi so there are multiple reasons I send my business their way. I usually try to find an independent coffee house when travel. I do appreciate the hotel chains that provide free Wi-Fi by simply signing up for their free "rewards" or preferred customer programs.

Portland's airport is another that has free Wi-Fi and I do appreciate others that are. Here in Portland the downtown core also has free Wi-Fi and the service is slowly expanding to downtown neighborhoods.

- J.

[Broacher]

Another thing that annoyed me in my college reearch days was the fact that the public libraries we used in Toronto would advertise free services, but you like, had to go there. Not only that, you had to walk around the aisles and search card catalogues. Sure, you could take things home-- but not permanently! And some of the best stuff they wouldn't let you remove at all!

And then they would have the nerve to be open only certain days and hours and worst of all they would CHARGE you if you didn't return the items you borrowed on time. I mean, a big freakin franchise like public libraries? C'mon.



Sense of entitlement to free goods and services: don't leave home without it.

(But as soon as you do... maybe you'll have to.)

[Patrick Shannon]

I hear the "squatter" argument, but I don't really buy it (huh huh, I made a pun) ;) It's not really any different than places that put televisions in the joint (like bars) to watch the big game....someone could sit around and watch for free on a bottle of water purchase if they wanted. But the fact of the matter is that such things KEEP you at the place and if you get a little hungry or thirsty again shortly, the counter is just a short distance away. (And such places like coffee shops are common for just lounging despite the purchase, and even without free internet.) Otherwise? Just like I did at the truckstop, I left the place and bought food elsewhere. Bye bye money.

As I said, it's an outdated concept. And I think they're going to understand that when mobile internet becomes bigger and much more accessible with the phones (like iPhone or Blackberry) to the point where common people can afford/have them easily.

[Patrick Shannon]

Another thing that annoyed me in my college reearch days was the fact that the public libraries we used in Toronto would advertise free services, but you like, had to go there. Not only that, you had to walk around the aisles and search card catalogues. Sure, you could take things home-- but not permanently! And some of the best stuff they wouldn't let you remove at all!

And then they would have the nerve to be open only certain days and hours and worst of all they would CHARGE you if you didn't return the items you borrowed on time. I mean, a big freakin franchise like public libraries? C'mon.


Very, very different analogy. :)

[PrintDriver]

LOL with Broacher.

Why do you expect this stuff for free?
You still pay for wireless phone service don't you?
Why do you need to rely on internet technology. Phones work. Even for all-important job interviews. Was the vacation unplanned? You didn't know in advance that you might not be internet accessible?

I actually go to coffee shops and pubs, even if they are wired, to get away from the internet and talk to real people. If you go to meet a client, have what you need on your laptop. Why rely on a wi-fi? Unplug once in a while.

[Patrick Shannon]

Because the situation was very last minute and details was coming through email. And there's a lot of times when something comes up that requires the net that you can't have on your laptop. My coworkers and I used to hit that sometimes in business outings.

But in my particular situation above, the bigger point is that one place got the business, one place didn't. So free wi-fi isn't really free as it's an offering intending to induce business (and I wouldn't condone going in a place to take it without making a business purchase), but it is ridiculous to advertise it and find out it's an additional nickel-and-dime cost above what else you spend there. It's like the coffee shops down the road from here. One (Starbucks) has pay net, one has free net (with food purchase, of course). Not hard to figure out where people are gonna go.

Although as I think about it, there is a bit of a positive to Starbucks and others like it charging for net, and Jeff kind of highlighted this. It gives the mom and pops a good advantage over the chains.

[Ben Kessler]

I don't get the "anti-squatter" policy either. If business folks want to set up shop at a Starbucks for the day, why stop them? (As long as they're not bringing in food or drinks from outside.) My screenwriter friend used to work in a coffeeshop near her house for six hours at a stretch. She got more work done when she was away from her apartment. In the end, it results in more money for the store.

[Broacher]

A bigger issue than Starbucks' limited bandwidth might be Starbucks less limited 'brand'width. That is, the one you sit on if you make those creamy lattes a daily habit.

I hear they've just switched from using whole milk for these to 2%. Which, I would suppose, is less expensive. Hmm... maybe they could put the savings into making their WiFi truly free? Win win.

[Tea]

In the end, it results in more money for the store.

I'd argue that, but it's too nice of a day. I need to go enjoy it. :)

[CamarotaDesign]

Another thing that annoyed me in my college reearch days was the fact that the public libraries we used in Toronto would advertise free services, but you like, had to go there. Not only that, you had to walk around the aisles and search card catalogues. Sure, you could take things home-- but not permanently! And some of the best stuff they wouldn't let you remove at all!

And then they would have the nerve to be open only certain days and hours and worst of all they would CHARGE you if you didn't return the items you borrowed on time. I mean, a big freakin franchise like public libraries? C'mon.



Sense of entitlement to free goods and services: don't leave home without it.

(But as soon as you do... maybe you'll have to.)
Hail the mighty consumer, if you don't agree with our philosophy you don't have to have our business. There are plenty of businesses that will provide free wi-fi for their customers, we will take our business there.

This is a capitalist world, and guess who's in charge? THE CONSUMER.

Thats why it's the consumers fault for all the crap related to industrialism and commercialism that has happened the last 40 years due to corporations. Sure, they do terrible things and exploit 3rd world countries and produce products that harm the planet, and the planet's people.Bbut they wouldn't if consumers didn't give them a market for it. The fact is these big corporations do what makes them the most money. If starbucks thinks that they will make more money by charging for wi-fi and turning away potential customers, they will do it. The fact is, after much research they probably decided that currently they can make more money charging for it even if it turns away potential customers. If people like Me, and Patrick and Jeff, and whoever else keep our business out of these places, they will will be forced to give us what we want or lose more money.

Likewise, Mcdonalds, Taco Bell, Burger King and all the other places will go natural and organic if the market presents itself. You see how chipotle is going bonkers? They are upping their percentage of organic ingredients more and more, because thats what their customers want.

Big car companies will start producing electric cars too, you better believe it. We are getting fed up with the price of gas. There are electric car companies out there generating considerable profits and providing competition to the combustable engine makers, and the cars keep getting better every year.

Anyways, not to get this all into a discussion of globalization and economics, but the fact is, THE CONSUMER is in charge in a capitalist society. The consumer needs to be educated on how to spend their money, to ignore false advertising and purchase what they feel is the best for them, and their planet. And if we all believe that WI-FI should be free, and will only give our business to a place that will give us free WI-FI, then the corporation better meet our demands, or lose your money.

[Patrick Shannon]

(Snip)


Amen. If only that power would translate into so much more. Around here for example, Charter cable is rated the absolute worst service in the area. Problem is they're the only service in the area, they don't have to do anything about it. Unfortunately some people are too tied to their precious cable TV to speak with their wallets. (Fortunately AT&T might be giving them some competition soon)

I thought of something with Starbucks, they had some sort of T-Mobile wi-fi service in place. So I'm thinking it's big company deals with one another or something which is likely a common scenario with all the situations above. As I somewhat said, give it a few years for them to realize it's a dying model in a world where the competitor is either offering so much more, or internet becomes more accessible/affordable on people's own cell phone services, or as Jeff pointed out, cities start offering free wi-fi in bigger areas, making it moot. But with or without the net, they're Starbucks...they'll be fine ;)

[CamarotaDesign]

as Jeff pointed out, cities start offering free wi-fi in bigger areas

You know, I heard that SF was planning on doing that. All the more reason I gotta move there.

[PrintDriver]

How do you guys know Starbucks isn't making more money by making tables available to more customers?
Why assume it's the wi-fi charge that is making them more money?

Free wi-fi service will never get me to eat at a McDs or Burger King. And not being able to wi-fi will not keep me out of Starbucks or similar. Reminds me of a marketing thing I got when I bought my last car. The financing company sent out a questionaire asking why I chose their lending company, focusing on the free gifts they offered. Was I pleased with the cheap-ass POS lousy quality car tool kit they gave me as a bonus? F*k no! They had 0% interest. Duh.

If less people were led by the nose, maybe Camarota is right, the companies would change their tune. But I doubt it. How many times have YOU bought something you didn't particularly want just because what you DID want wasn't available at that particular moment when you thought you needed it?

[Patrick Shannon]

Likewise, where it wouldn't do anything for one person, it is a difference to another person and a customer is a customer. It would also depend on the area too. A Starbucks crowd in suburbia probably wouldn't care versus a Starbucks in a high traffic business area. (Incidentally, many of those business areas are starting to pepper the general area with free wi-fi, like Westport, MO out here).

About table space, it depends on the Starbucks as you have them big and small, but the local Graphic Design Meetup here meets at a Starbucks often containing a numerous number. Table space is never an issue as there is much more than plenty left over, and some members aren't ordering anything. But others are, which makes it worthwhile for them to be there.

[Ben Kessler]

I'm at a Burger King right now, workin' on a double whopper and using the free wi-fi. Hmmm...what's that stabbing pain in my chest all about?

[CamarotaDesign]

Likewise, where it wouldn't do anything for one person, it is a difference to another person and a customer is a customer. It would also depend on the area too. A Starbucks crowd in suburbia probably wouldn't care versus a Starbucks in a high traffic business area. (Incidentally, many of those business areas are starting to pepper the general area with free wi-fi, like Westport, MO out here).

About table space, it depends on the Starbucks as you have them big and small, but the local Graphic Design Meetup here meets at a Starbucks often containing a numerous number. Table space is never an issue as there is much more than plenty left over, and some members aren't ordering anything. But others are, which makes it worthwhile for them to be there.
Well put Patrick. There are plenty customers out there like PD, where being connected to the internet as much as possible isn't an issue. To tell you the truth, it's not enough to get me to a starbucks either. Now, if starbucks went completely fair trade coffee and all organic, yer talkin business.

Free wi-fi wouldnt get me into Mcdonalds either, but grassfed, all natural beef and organic french fries fried in canola oil would. I'm a hippy at heart from Northern California. Likewise, that probably wouldn't mean a damn thing to all the people that go there, thats why mcdonalds hasn't bothered making an all natural/organic menu.

It's all about knowing the market, and the market depends on people's opninions and attitudes. And opinions and attitudes are influenced by many things, but one of the big ones is awareness and education on what they are buying. Fortunately, I really think consumers are going to start wisening up in the next 10 years, about... well everything.

[PrintDriver]

Meh. I have a friend who is convinced the world is going up in flames in 2024. I'm inclined to believe her more than I believe the general population as a whole will give up its comfies for environmentally pleasing and good-for-you products.

[jessicam]

I'm gonna have to agree with you PD. As much as I love my 9 dollar all organic amazingly tasty buger, when the funds are low you can't do a whole lot better than a double cheeseburger for under a buck.

[Patrick Shannon]

That's where Soylent Green comes in. That was more of a documentary than a movie, really.

[CamarotaDesign]

Meh. I have a friend who is convinced the world is going up in flames in 2024. I'm inclined to believe her more than I believe the general population as a whole will give up its comfies for environmentally pleasing and good-for-you products.

Oh, I'm preparing for that, don't worry, I'm not blindly optmistic here, I know we are in serious shit. But at the same time, it doesn't do any good to sit here and be negative and worry about it eveyday. I used to be like that and I was miserable. You can't help change anything till you help change yourself.

[Kool]

I thought the world was gonna end on December 21st 2012. At least that's what the Mayans said. :)

[Virgo Nightingale]

Kool, were you watching the National Geographic channel the other night? ;)

Well, it might have been the History channel, now I don't remember which...:o

[Kool]

Heh heh, it was the History channel. :D

[PrintDriver]

Boy is she gonna be surprised... :D
I'm not negative. I'm a pessimist. I can never ever be disappointed, only pleasantly surprised.

[Jeff Fisher LogoMotives]

Funny...posted to this thread yesterday, and today got notification that city's free Wi-Fi is now available in our neighborhood.

Here's the current coverage map for the Portland area (http://www.metrofi.com/cities-16.html). They've really increased it recently.

- J.

[CamarotaDesign]

I thought the world was gonna end on December 21st 2012. At least that's what the Mayans said. :)
could it be a little sooner so I don't have to see that shitty olympics logo all over TV?

[Patrick Shannon]

Funny...posted to this thread yesterday, and today got notification that city's free Wi-Fi is now available in our neighborhood.


See...I've started a revolution :D

[urstwile]

I have to say I've always admired Portland's progressive city planning approach. Didn't Flex Cars (http://www.flexcar.com/) start there?

[Jeff Fisher LogoMotives]

I have to say I've always admired Portland's progressive city planning approach. Didn't Flex Cars (http://www.flexcar.com/) start there?

Flexcar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexcar) actually started here in Portland under another name. It's hugely successful and many friends use the service on a regular basis. There's a pick up/drop off location about eight blocks from my house.

- J.

[urstwile]

Jeff, yes, I remember reading an article several years ago about the genesis of what is now called Flex Car, in Portland, good to know I'm not making up utopian stories all on my own. ;)

Actually, before it started in Portland, I believe the notion actually started in a Scandinavian country and migrated over here.

There are a few Flex Car spots here in San Diego, I'm heartened to see. They've managed to maintain a foot(pedal)-hold so far, but San Diego's a very car-oriented city. I'm glad they've been able to maintain a presence here, but it's been slow-going for them.

Myself, I think it's a great idea.

[PrintDriver]

We have Zip Cars in the Boston area. I've learned not to get to close to them. Most of those people in those Zip Cars aren't used to driving, let alone in Boston. :eek: I've been tempted to call Zip Car and report license plates so they don't rent them again to a person who drives poorly. Or maybe these people think they can't get tickets in a rented car?

[sweet*pea]

They can get tickets in a rental car for sure. It is an interesting idea though. Especially for larger cities where owning a car doesn't make much sense.

[Broacher]

Check out Dilbert creator Scott Adams new idea on combining online dbase, cellphone network and Google technology to facilitate a kind of 'car network' (actually, I do think it could have potential!):

http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2007/06/how_i_solved_th.html

[sweet*pea]

That sounds like an awesome idea. Someone should get working on it!

[colonel5]

Caribou Coffee I think has found a great happy medium to all this. When you first open your browser you enter in your email address to log on. Then you get access for 1-hour. If you want to stay an extra hour and you've actually bought something you can go up to the counter and the have access cards with a code you enter on it.

I prefer going to Panera for a few reasons.

1. unrestriced free wi-fi
2. great coffee
3. they're a lot bigger than coffee shops so you don't have the crowd problem

[Patrick Shannon]

Caribou Coffee I think has found a great happy medium to all this. When you first open your browser you enter in your email address to log on. Then you get access for 1-hour. If you want to stay an extra hour and you've actually bought something you can go up to the counter and the have access cards with a code you enter on it.


That isn't a bad idea at all, that's fair.

[CamarotaDesign]

Agreed, my previous statements were on the basis of if the customer bought something. I HATE freeloaders.