how to start a 2-color/duotone design?

[yolkietoby]

I know this is a very amateurish question. But I have always worked with full color so this is not so obvious to me. Someone wants me to do a 2- color graphic design using only black and a particular pantone color (say, red, just for simplicity.) Let just for example I want the left 1/3 of the frame be 100% black and the right 1/3 be 100% red. The middle 1/3 will be, say, a greyscale duotone photo combining the 2 colors, along with various borders and such using combinations of 2 colors.

How do you start the setup (I use PSD)? Do you start the design as full-color mode? Do you work on the black side in greyscale and then work on the red side in greyscale (but you don't see the red, you see black which gets converted to red in monotone) how do you limit that the computer uses only two colors no matter what the colors are in between? Do you have to "visualize" what the result is gonna, instead of WYSIWYG? I don't know if my question is too confusing but please forgive me for I don't know the proper terminology to phrase my question.

[Ned]

First, remove color from the image any way you like (most would use the channel mixer for best results), then convert to Greyscale mode.

Then, add a Spot Color Channel in the Channels pallette (New Spot Channel under the Layer Palette Options Menu), make a copy (or cut) of the greyscale channel that you want to be converted to spot, and paste it into the spot channel.

[Craig B]

Here are a few links:

This describes spot channels with Photoshop 5.5 (http://www.graphic-design.com/Photoshop/Seminars/spotchannels/index.html) (a little dated, but some good info)

And this (http://www.tutorialelf.com/photoshop/5/spot-color-channels.html) does a good job explaining it as well.

[yolkietoby]

So do both of you mean that the design needs to be done first in greyscale before I convert a part of it to the spot color I need? In a way, this is not WYSIWYG that I am so used to when working in RGB mode, in that you need to "visualize" what the outcome is?

[delusns]

Image> Mode> Gray scale

then

Image> Mode> Duotone

Select Duotone from drop down

Choose your 2 colors then play with the Duotone Curves.

After you're happy with the Duotone, go back to RGB or CMYK to work with full colors again.

Hope this helps.

[Ned]

No, you don't need to imagine anything. :D It will appear on your screen the way you'll see it in print, more or less (screen previews are NEVER exactly like print - the color rendering is completely different!).

Okay, basically, this is the way channels work... Each channel displays one primary color. For RGB (light/additive colors, for monitor, television, etc), these channels are Red, Green, and Blue, for CMYK (print/subtractive colors), these channels are Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, and Black. On a greyscale image, the one channel is Black.

Every channel is displayed in Photoshop as a greyscale image. The black parts of the image are 100% of the corresponding color, the white parts are 0%. Grey areas are a percentage within.

So, if you take a greyscale image and copy it into your clipboard, then paste that into a spot color channel, it will apply the spot color to your image, saturating it in the white areas, and applying in part to grey areas.

When you are working in the channel, you will see only greyscale. When you view all channels (CMD/CTRL-~), then you will see it as full-color approximation of the print. You can switch between channel views by pressing CMD/CTRL-1, CMD/CTRL-2, etc, and CMD/CTRL-~ for all channels.

[hewligan]

Except the final image described isn't a photoshop duotone.

A photoshop duotone image has the same image data for both channels with different curves applied.

The design, as described has different data in each of its two colour channels. Therefore it needs to be set up as a multichannel image.

Incidentally, do you need to do this in photoshop? The image you described would be much easier to do in Illustrator.

In that case you could set up your two coloured blocks in Illustrator and then place a duotone photo from photoshop in between them. This way you could use a duotone rather than multichannel - and duotones are much easier to deal with than multichannel.

[Ned]

After you're happy with the Duotone, go back to RGB or CMYK to work with full colors again.
If the printer is only going to print one black plate and one spot color plate, DO NOT convert back to CMYK!

If you choose to do this with Duo-tone, then keep it in duo-tone. For less problems when it goes to press though (and better editibility), I would suggest greyscale with a spot color channel.

[urstwile]

I agree with Hewligan, I wouldn't start in Photoshop (unless you have to because everything will be raster), I'd do it in Illustrator or InDesign.

[delusns]

If the printer is only going to print one black plate and one spot color plate, DO NOT convert back to CMYK!

If you choose to do this with Duo-tone, then keep it in duo-tone. For less problems when it goes to press though (and better editibility), I would suggest greyscale with a spot color channel.
Oops. If you're sending this to a printer, what ^^ said. I'm not sure he should be using illustrator since Yolkie said the middle part is going to be a duotone photo.

[yolkietoby]

alright, so this is my understanding based on Ned's and other's suggestions. To use my initial example:

1. I would start at greyscale.
2. I would fill the left 1/3 with solid black, middle 1/3 with a greyscale photo.
3. Create a new spot channel and assign the color.
4. copy the middle 1/3 on the new spot.
5. since I am in the new spot channel, I see the photo as greyscale, instead of the color I want.
6. while in the spot channel, fill the right 1/3 with black.
7. Now if I turn on all the channels, I will see the composite.

Is that the general idea? In this case, like Ned said, I would stil have to flip back and forth between the composite (for preview) and the spot channel (for working)? I assume I just can't work directly on the composite?

[Ned]

Yes, all that is correct, including the last comment. From what I read, your final composite should come out with a black left third, a middle third with a spot colored photograph, then a right third with solid spot color. :)

[urstwile]

Oops. If you're sending this to a printer, what ^^ said. I'm not sure he should be using illustrator since Yolkie said the middle part is going to be a duotone photo.
If the middle part is the only thing that will be a duotone, and the left and right are going to be just solids, there's no reason to complicate it any further. Simply create the left and right side in Illustrator, and place the duotone image in between.

[Ned]

Yes, Urst, but the OP asked for this...

How do you start the setup (I use PSD)?
Therefore, I'm assuming that PS is what (s)he knows how to use.


PS, yolkietoby, don't forget that if your greyscale image comes out inverted from the colors from the colors you want (ie, if you want to apply the color to the highlights rather than the shadows), then use CMD/CTRL-I to invert the color.

Oh, and you can actually work with all channels opened... Just make sure you have the channel you need to work on highlighted in blue (like the layers palette), and all eyeballs on. Then you will be able to work, viewing your entire composition. Just remember that when you paint, you will be painting in black or grey, and it will show up as the spot color.

[Craig B]

Yolkietoby, can you post the image you're trying to do this to?

[yolkietoby]

Thank you all. I don't have the working image to post. The example that I give is just a very simple way to describe some of the challenges I think I'll face (100% solid for both colors, along with blend of the two everywhere) The design I have in mind is actually more complicated. I do see an image (see attached) that resembles what I want to do eventually.

The image looks to me like a duotone (or tritone) image of black and an olive color (100% solid at the Virgin logo) and everything in between is just a blend of the two. For all you experts out there, to create something, would the process you all describe still apply? Or is there another process how you would approach this?

[Craig B]

That most likely is 4 color just because it looks as if there are some other colors in th design. But you should be able to do that with just a duotone. Or you could use spot channels ...

[Ned]

Just apply the spot color to the highlights.

[yolkietoby]

Thanks all again for providing guidance. I will try and see what I could do. I guess your directions confirm my thought that it may not be as intuitive as I had hoped for. I also know a little bit about Illustrator (I used to use freehand 7 many years ago) so I do understand it's probably easier to do solid colors there. But I think freehand back then didn't have complicated blending mode and such so that's why I say I was going to do it in PSD.

[urstwile]

If you have Illustrator and it works for what you're trying to do, I'd definitely recommend giving it a try.

[yolkietoby]

OK, I tried playing with channels a bit but I have a hard time understand the way it works. I thought channels are just like layers that you could put one on top of another to hide the one below but apparently that's not the case. Enclosed is a "fake" photoshop concept I have in mind done actually in RGB. Let's say for simplicity that the whole image has been flattened. Someone just hand that image to you and ask you to turn it in a 2-color design (with the deepest purple being the 2nd color) How would you approach it? Can you just use the flattened image to achieve the result, or do you need to start from scratch? The wave at the bottom obviously have a slightly different purple. How do you turn it (and all its gradient) into the same purple as the sky in a 2-color mode?

I think I am just lost because the concepts of channels and the relationship to layers are so confusing to me. You have all been very kind to offer me pointers. I certainly don't want to waste everybody's time and list every step for me. But if you could tell me in general what the steps should be, I'd greatly appreciate it. Also are there books that specifically instruct dummies like me who are used to full-color design to do 2-color designs?

[budafist]

An "easy way" to do 2 colour designs is just to use 2 of the CMYK process colours. If you use Black and Magenta only for your design, the printer can output 2 plates and then use purple ink for your purple spot.

Of course, if you ever go back to digital printing, your files will be incorrect though...

[yolkietoby]

so do you mean I just turn off/delete two channels, say C & Y. I just tried it. It doesn't look quite right. The black hill shows up on both the remaining K and M channels. I thought it should only should up in K. the sky did not show up in K but the hill does not look solid black. That's not quite what I had in mind. I want the black hill to show up in K as solid black only and the sky and its associated gradient show up in M only (using your method.) With everything solid color like a logo, I know how to do it in illustrator because I say those as "lego" blocks, it's much easier to conceptulize, but with gradient and intermingling colors and blends, I just totally lost it.

[budafist]

Sorry, I've confused you. The method I mentioned has nothing to do with channels. Maybe you should disregard it completely if you're going to play with channels.

Sorry. Carry on...as you were.

[hewligan]

Honestly, the only easy answer really is don't use photoshop - it's just not that good at this kind of stuff.

Still, since that's what you've got...

Each of the channels shows what will print on the plate for that colour. They're really not like layers at all (and have been in photoshop much longer than layers). So you can't just hide something by putting something else on top of it. If you want part of your image to print purple and not black, then you need to make sure that for that area of the image, the purple channel is filled (black) and the black channel is unfilled (white).

[yolkietoby]

I could certainly try illustrator but I thought the kind of gradient and blending that I want to use works the best in PSD?

[hewligan]

I could certainly try illustrator but I thought the kind of gradient and blending that I want to use works the best in PSD?

Not really.

Plus, you can export a psd from Illustrator if you really need one.

What you're trying to do can certainly be achieved in photoshop, but I think you'll find you're making your life a lot easier if you switch to Illy, even if you end up exporting to a psd at the end.

[yolkietoby]

so hewligan, if you are given that concept image of mine, how would you approach it in illustrator? I have four main elements: the purple sky, the streaking lines using PSD's motion blur, the black hill and the tree (probably the easiest one for me to handle I guess) and the wave at the bottom.

Here's my "guess":

1. in a new illustrator doc, pick a spot color, and create a solid purple rectangle.
2. import a grey scale photo (ie. the hill and the tree), overlapping that with the solid purple. Use a "darken" filter (is there one in illy?) to turn the white off.
3. import a grey scale photo of the lines (which I should have put in the motion effect in psd) and apply "screen" filter to turn the black off.
4. now the wave, which I want to apply the same purple as the sky. How should I do it? How do I acheive the effect of the purple fading into black? I anticipate this could be the hardest for me.
5. Theoretically, now I have an illustrator file that has two colors: black and purple.

Is this more or less the steps? Or am I totally off?

[hewligan]

The wave would be a bit tricky. I'd use the blend tool.