Getting a quote from printers

[LittleBlu]

For an upcoming project, my client has asked for a printer's quote before signing my design contract. I have contacted a few printers here (Vancouver, B.C.) but none of them will provide me with a rough estimate without seeing the completed file first. As I am accustomed to doing layout for larger jobs (67,000 copies +), my experience is that printers jump to give a quote, but not for a job of 5,000.

The printers are trying to run a business so I can completely understand where they are coming from. When my client asked for all of this before even signing the contract, I'm put in the same position. I was wondering if anyone can give a rough estimate on what the cost of this small job or some advice on how to deal with my client.

The job specs:

-40 pages (including cover)
-80# for cover; 50# for inside pages
-8 3/8" X 10 3/4" cut
-Full colour
-Full bleed
-Staple bound

-Approx. 5,000 copies

Thanks so much.

[cornfed]

That's totally gonna depend on the printer. I don't think anyone here can even ballpark it for you. I've never had a printer refuse to give me an estimate on a job. However, I always take it as an estimate, which in my mind is different than a quote.

[Drorain]

Only people who can actually do the job should provide quotes form their companies, so consider this when you read replies to this thread. Different printers might differ in price by thousands of dollars, plus the printing method will effect the costs. Web press vs plates vs whatever other methods are available. The printers should have no problem quoting such a job though, it’s easy money and takes a few minutes. Good luck, I’d widen the search for printers though, might have to go a little out of your area.

[jimking]

Find a sheetfed printer and explain the situation. 40pg 4/c 5000 copies should move a printer to give an estimate especially if they are going to print it or think they are.

[PrintDriver]

Are you going through your regular printer vendors? If they don't want to do it, ask them if they can suggest someone who can. Sometimes larger places can't take smaller orders.

[LittleBlu]

Thanks guys, this really helps me out.

I made a split-moment decision to both push the printer and push the client. (The cost of design will be the same to the client, no matter how many copies anyway. That design is my business - and if he needs the job, he's probably not gonna change his mind.)

My regular printer is Transcontinental but I only use them for prints above 10,000 or so. So I'm really digging deep to research the smaller fanchises and establish a long-term relationship for my client. I guess the smaller guys do business different (ie: walk in with your business card file and we'll print it!)

One of the printers has agreed to work out a quote. Its disgusting how much they had to be pressured though. This isn't a small city by any means so its not like there is a lack of competition.

Anyway, I'll let you know how it goes. And thanks again =)

[Drorain]

awesome, good on pressuring them, it's not like they're struggling ton get your business...your going to them they should be more than happy.

[jimking]

I think the reason they hesitate is because printers get bogged down big time with estimates from people they do not know. For example there are people such as brokers etc. who swamp printers with estimates who have no intentions of ever using them. It causes problems for printers more than you think.

[LittleBlu]

I think the reason they hesitate is because printers get bogged down big time with estimates from people they do not know. For example there are people such as brokers etc. who swamp printers with estimates who have no intentions of ever using them. It causes problems for printers more than you think.

Yeah, I can completely understand that, especially for the little guys. The first two printers I contacted, I have worked with before several times. One of them, I have even referred my design students to in the past for having their projects printed. (Little stuff, I know, but they do remember me.) He was the first to completely hesitate.

I kind of agree with Drorian. This is good business for them - from a graphic designer and not a broker. Why should they have a problem giving a quote if they want to make money off of my client?

When this is finished, web design is on the menu for a while, lol. Printing is a pain, and quiet nights of programming seem like a Utopia just now.

[jimking]

I know of large printers in my area who'll hesitate too. One particular popular printer suggested that printers in our area start charging for estimates to strangers not regulars. That went over well.:rolleyes:

[LittleBlu]

I know of large printers in my area who'll hesitate too. One particular popular printer suggested that printers in our area start charging for estimates to strangers not regulars. That went over well.:rolleyes:

LMFAO! That is very government-like thinking, isn't it? A little here - a little there.... That reminds me of the printer last month who tried to charge me $2 to open my file for a business card project. I asked him, "Do you need help clicking that button twice?". There was a nice $2 discount that followed.

Trans is pretty good. Though their mistakes are always large-scale, lol, quoting is never an issue.

[budafist]

I was quoted $50 download fee once. I asked them if I could open the file from CD for them to save some cash. Didn't go down well. I went elsewhere (a place that didn't charge download)

[urstwile]

I'm surprised by this. I suspect it is different in different cities. I've never had any problems receiving quotes from printers for small runs here in San Diego, even if they knew they might not get the job. For most here, it's a simple math matter, takes a few minutes, and they're happy to a) get the chance at the business and b) get the chance at the business.

[PrintDriver]

I wish we could charge for estimates... :rolleyes:

I could understand if the order was complicated, but what you have there seems pretty straightforward. And I don't know about all the other printers out there but an estimate usually has language in the fine print that the estimate is only good until receipt and review of files at which time a new quote may be generated.

In the earlier days of my career I once went to have my resume printed at a quickie place that said on the phone they accepted Quark files. When I brought it in they wanted to charge me $25 to open the file. I asked them if they were serious, they soberly nodded they were while explaining they couldn't just open Quark files - the 'designer' had to do it and they charge by 1/4 hour for 'designer' time, so I took my disk and left. That taught me several things: 1. to always include a friggin pdf, 2. how to ask more specific questions when calling a vendor, and 3. that I wasn't charging enough, LOL!.

[LittleBlu]

Download fee? omg, that is a ridiculous amount. Maybe in the days of 14.4 modems but...eep.

urstwile, it is possible that the printers here have enough work that they are not crying for jobs. Considering the cost of real estate here, it wouldn't be a shock. Though explaining any of this to the client always comes across like an excuse (...still haven't heard back from mine). The one printer that I pushed a quote out needed a day to figure out the estimate. So I'm thinking either a) He doesn't normally print on this scale or b) He outsources these projects. Lol, knowing sure saves a lot of thinking.

Thanks PrintDriver for an expert point of view. It helps to know that this isn't rocket science. I used to be a creative manager for Hbc. I was really young, 21, stupidly young, so I really took advantage of the fact that the marketing assistant & manager both took care of the quotes and invoices. Now it has come back to bite me, haha.

Funny, they must have been trying to pay off a monthly lease on the Quark software or something. But yeah it is kind of an ego boost to think that a designer must open thee design file. But then, back in the day, we all feared the blue screen of death =)

Thanks guys.

[doubting_thomas]

I think that some of the seemingly silly fees charged for prepress and the ease
of file transfer are justified. This stuff all costs money. Some of it costs a lot
of money. You're probably getting charged for these services in one way
or another, even if it's not a line item. To expect print shops to eat the cost
of top of the line work stations and slick online ordering systems is a little crazy.
We bill for all of our technology, but rarely is it itemized on the client's invoice.
We just build it into the quote, so I'm told. I know that's what I do when I do estimates. I'm not crazy enough to tell a client that I'm
charging them to open a CD or download a file though.

[Kool]

I think that some of the seemingly silly fees charged for prepress and the ease
of file transfer are justified. This stuff all costs money. Some of it costs a lot
of money. You're probably getting charged for these services in one way
or another, even if it's not a line item. To expect print shops to eat the cost
of top of the line work stations and slick online ordering systems is a little crazy.
We bill for all of our technology, but rarely is it itemized on the client's invoice.
We just build it into the quote, so I'm told. I know that's what I do when I do estimates. I'm not crazy enough to tell a client that I'm
charging them to open a CD or download a file though.

Exactly. You have to charge for everything but you don't line item it. Imagine going to a restaurant and having your bill include $.75 potato peeling fee or a $1.68 dishwashing fee. The one I hate is on your power and gas bills when they have a billing fee. They get to charge you for telling you how much you have to pay them. :rolleyes:

[LittleBlu]

Hah, ok, it seemes that the print franchise is happier and more willing to provide a quote than the small business guy. And his price is 15% cheaper.

Thomas, we must be spoilt. I mean, when you purchase something at a store, net cost, shipping, stocking, employee wages, accounting costs, profit, everything is included in the price. So when a printer says "$50 to download your file!!!" or "$2 to open your file!" .....It is like they are charging us twice. Like you said, many designers will include those fun fees in the price, so we'd rather have a printer say "That will cost you $3 to print your 8.5" x 11" card stock glossy page" instead of "it costs $1 AND we are charging you a fee to open the file".

On the other hand, if it is a company ordering 5,000 business cards, maybe the extra fees are regular and expected.

Maybe graphic designers are just bloody tempermental and analytic by nature...haha. Lol, isn't life complicated?

[doubting_thomas]

Lol, isn't life complicated? Nah, building rockets for outer space, now that's complicated. Ink on paper, soon
to be land fill. That's simple, mostly :cool: