Sicko

[jimking]

Anyone see the movie? Is it bull or what, good points bad points?

[DesignVHL]

I think it will be really good..but then again, I'm a fan of Michael Moores films and his views on a lot of stuff. :) I haven't seen it yet, but I've talked to other people who have seen it....kind of a wake up call...

[Jackimalyn]

Is it bull

from thesaurus.reference.com


Main Entry: bull Part of Speech: noun Definition: nonsense Synonyms: balderdash, baloney, bilge, bunkum, claptrap, crap, hogwash, rubbish, trash, Michael Moore

[Silence04]

At bonnaroo this year, The Nightwatchman shot a music video for that movie, that was the first time i heard about it.

Seems like it would be a good movie, i would like to see it.

[DesignVHL]

Nice! How was the roo this year? Haven't gone since 2004. :)


And btw, your naive if you think that this movie is bull...while i haven't seen it yet...I AM aware of the fact that our Healthcare system is very messed up! Not sure how much you have ACTUALLY looked into the situation, but ESPECIALLY FOR US DESIGNERS - who want to work freelance - the current system makes it REAL HARD and expensive to get GOOD COVERAGE...so I would think MOST freelance designers (especially) would be more open to hearing what Moore's research has shown, and more importantly, understand that things aren't really that great when it comes to our health care!

[Silence04]

Nice! How was the roo this year? Haven't gone since 2004. :)

Amazing, so so many good performances. Tool stole the show imo... One of my buddies that was with me has been to the previous 2 years and he said this year was the best so far. :D
but you had 2004 with DMB, i would have killed to see them play bonnaroo!

[DesignVHL]

Yeah all 3 years were wonderful experiences...

TOOL rocks, haven't seen them in a few years...but they just rolled thru chicago recently and a bunch of friends went...said they just killed it! Good stuff! :)

Do u hit any other festivals? I'm doing Lolla this year (of course its in my hometown) :)

[Kool]

I won't watch it. After all his shenanigans in Bowling for Columbine were exposed I put him in the idiot category and vowed he would never get any of my money. It too bad this tool is a major spokesman for liberal views.

[Jackimalyn]

Nice! How was the roo this year? Haven't gone since 2004. :)


And btw, your naive if you think that this movie is bull...while i haven't seen it yet...I AM aware of the fact that our Healthcare system is very messed up! Not sure how much you have ACTUALLY looked into the situation, but ESPECIALLY FOR US DESIGNERS - who want to work freelance - the current system makes it REAL HARD and expensive to get GOOD COVERAGE...so I would think MOST freelance designers (especially) would be more open to hearing what Moore's research has shown, and more importantly, understand that things aren't really that great when it comes to our health care!

I completely agree! I just cannot see Michael Moore as a credible source. He's very bias and I hate how much press he gets. So much of America is naiive and believes everything they hear, and when one sided arguments are all you hear, thats what they believe. (Im not saying that the information about the "healthcare system" in the US is bull, just that Moore is very one-sided)

[DesignVHL]

What do you mean Moore is bias? Who and what is he bias towards exactly? I see a man who is looking to find the truth in America - exposing what should be exposed - he isn't making shit up - he's visually expressing his findings....Your sounding like a true republican, and if you are thats cool, we just don't share the same views, therefore, NO MATTER what we may argue here, neither will of made our point because we both have our views and opinions - and as in the movie "thank you for smoking" both of us could argue our points until out of breath - and both be right. Have you seen Sicko to discredit it already? Have you seen his other movies like Roger and Me? I just do not see how he is being biased in those, he's making awareness based on HIS FINDINGS - HIS TRUTHS....if people have a CHOICE to listen to him, or to listen to another figure based on their views...

America IS naive, definitely. But I'm not America, I'm me, i have my own mind, and my own thoughts on the matter.....If you are agreeing that our healthcare system is messed up, then what exactly seems to be the problem with Moore's findings regarding our current healthcare situation? I mean he's even gotten some republicans eye's to open! I firmly believe that this movie is creating more awareness that our system isn't perfect...and I do hope that in MM's efforts that something will be done to help move things forward. Again have not seen it yet, but I am familiar w/ Moore's films...I took a film class in college and we were required to study Moore - so maybe since I'm also coming from that angle, I see things in a different perspective than you do...

[Kool]

Do a little research on his stuff man. He fakes stuff, he edits thing so they are out of context. He will show questions from one situation and answers from completely different questions edited to appear like they are the same. I'm not a republican but I can see him for what he is. He takes good point and then lies about them. This isn't journalism it's all about making more money for himself.

[Kool]

I guess I'm saying it's just as stupid for liberals to blindly believe this idiot as it is for conservatives to blindly believe Bill O Riley or Sean Hannity or any of the other idiot talking heads they have.

[DesignVHL]

thats just the way his footage is composed....taken out of context or not...he still exposes some real truths....I really do not see how he could try to "make more money" for himself lol - I mean first off he's a docu-film maker - and that alone isn't a money maker! He's a filmaker who wants to share HIS views and HIS findings...i'm not saying that I 100% agree w/ everything...but a film ANY Film - INCLUDING MEDIA and News footage is cut up and edited - thats just the way it is....

I'm not some mm advocate or anything, and I definitely do not hang on his every word.....I DO see your POV on this....however i will go in w/ an open mind on seeing Sicko....probably a rental though I won't go see it in the theater.

People are always going to have different opinions on him, and I'm not really into having a debate about this since I am at work! Lol....and i've already been there and done that...it can just keep going back and forth back and forth....

[carter the artist]

Haven't seen it, but seen a lot of background on it. When CNN tried to attack the credibility Moore responded.

I do want to see it, I know first hand how seriously F'd it is. I get these earaches from time to time. So last year I go to a clinic. must pay that day no billing and I was looking at around three hundred dollars. My insurance at work wasn't gonna kick in for like another few weeks. So, i go to a hospital... They charge like 160 dollars for antibotiocs and painkillers. it was like 10 bucks for fifty painkillers the rest were for TWO antibiotics. Then I get a bill for like 400 dollars, it was from the hospital. Then weeks later I get a bill for like over 600 dollars... IT was the Doctor's Bill! How B.S. was all this? It was a damned earache!

So then I get it again earlier this year. Found a better clinic. only 100 dollars a visit and 40 bucks for the meds. Of course no billing. Which is why I ran into a problem this week since I've been dealing with an earache for like three weeks.

AARRGGHH!! why am i paying taxes if my money cannot help keep me alive?

[jimking]

Do a little research on his stuff man. He fakes stuff, he edits thing so they are out of context. He will show questions from one situation and answers from completely different questions edited to appear like they are the same. I'm not a republican but I can see him for what he is. He takes good point and then lies about them. This isn't journalism it's all about making more money for himself.
That's a shame because the healthcare industry really is a serious issue. I'm not a Moore fan, kind of wished someone other than he made the film. But maybe he nailed this one correctly?:confused:

[DesignVHL]

That sux about your earache, bummer! But YEP SEE the PROBLEM IS REAL! IT IS THERE! Here's another situation:

My boyfriend has not been to a freakin' dentist in over 4-5 years because insurance is too expensive for his 5 person company...HIS COMPANY is too small to be able to get and afford DENTAL INSURANCE - and HIS MEDICAL PLAN SUCKS too...anyways he needs his wisdom teeth out really bad- (gets earaches, headaches, and sinus infections a lot due to this)....as well as he has 5 cavaties that need to get filled....tell me that it doesn't suck for him...and me as his girlfriend (i'm pissed he won't even go lol - i told him i'd pay for it) but i think that is a guy thing, lol!!! Anyways IF he had good insurance and dental, he would be going to the dentist TWICE A YEAR...but he can't because it is too damn expensive! A couple $1,000 for wisdome teeth alone! Makes me so mad...

[Jackimalyn]

That's a shame because the healthcare industry really is a serious issue. I'm not a Moore fan, kind of wished someone other than he made the film. But maybe he nailed this one correctly?:confused:

Im with ya. I know theres a problem but I think that by Moore doing the film it actually hurts it a bit because of his documented lies and exaggerations. (btw,well put Kool)

[carter the artist]

That sux about your earache, bummer! But YEP SEE the PROBLEM IS REAL! IT IS THERE! Here's another situation:

My boyfriend has not been to a freakin' dentist in over 4-5 years because insurance is too expensive for his 5 person company...HIS COMPANY is too small to be able to get and afford DENTAL INSURANCE - and HIS MEDICAL PLAN SUCKS too...anyways he needs his wisdom teeth out really bad- (gets earaches, headaches, and sinus infections a lot due to this)....as well as he has 5 cavaties that need to get filled....tell me that it doesn't suck for him...and me as his girlfriend (i'm pissed he won't even go lol - i told him i'd pay for it) but i think that is a guy thing, lol!!! Anyways IF he had good insurance and dental, he would be going to the dentist TWICE A YEAR...but he can't because it is too damn expensive! A couple $1,000 for wisdome teeth alone! Makes me so mad...

I went thru that. But right before I got out of the army, I had all of them pulled, since it was free and I knew you had to pay for it as a civilian.

[John G]

What do you mean Moore is bias? Who and what is he bias towards exactly?
You believe the government set us up the bomb too don't you?

[Silence04]

yeah, but you can't blame him for doing this stuff no matter if he is bias. (even our national media is all bias)
after all, it's not our votes that make a difference, a difference is made when people like him stand up against the decisions that are being made for us without asking...

i'm sure this movie will effect our profit driven healthcare system in a good way...

[DesignVHL]

You believe the government set us up the bomb too don't you?


I am really insulted by your statement because I VERY MUCH DO NOT believe that we set ourselves up, why would you even assume this?

AND FOR THE RECORD: I am not saying I don't believe what your saying about Moore giving out false information, I JUST have not been PRESENTED with this "truth" so please feel free to direct me the truth of his exaggerations and documented lies instead of just telling me...I'm a firm believe in gotta see it to believe it....so if you can show me a CREDIBLE source full of that information, then I'll believe it! Till then, I'm going to take what he says and do my own research as I usually do. :) I don't take his word for it lol but he does point you in the right direction!

[D-Frag]

I watched it kinda of illigally, but never the less ive seen it, really good film, def points out the flaws in our health care system. Its a sad movie though, and I keep hearing all these reviews about it being a comedy, which it totally isn't. He does do some quirky editing in his past films, however, this one is a little different, he uses his editing to poke fun at the media and the people in charge, never once does he state them as facts. The facts speak for themselves when you see politicians admitting to the house that they have commited murder by not approving health care for people who needed it.

[DesignVHL]

well said d-frag....

[Kool]

I JUST have not been PRESENTED with this "truth" so please feel free to direct me the truth of his exaggerations and documented lies instead of just telling me...I'm a firm believe in gotta see it to believe it....so if you can show me a CREDIBLE source full of that information, then I'll believe it!

Credibility is of course in the eye of the beholder but this site covers him nicely. http://www.mooreexposed.com/ The expose on Bowling for Columbine is very well done in my opinion.

[DesignVHL]

agreed, as art is in the eye as well....that is a tough site see as credible though....its all words...there is no "evidence" so to speak....For all I know this site was created by an enemy of Moore, or worse, lol one of our own gov't officials....so it all goes back to being two-sided.....

just so we are clear, I have nothing against him, and I also don't bow down to him, lol - I think i used the wrong words to call myself a "fan" of him, lol i really don't follow his films, but I've seen a couple of them, and studied him in a film class....so again I have THAT perspective.

Nothing in there says to me credible source, or totally proof of truth....i don't see the facts.

[John G]

I am really insulted by your statement because I VERY MUCH DO NOT believe that we set ourselves up, why would you even assume this?
Because
What do you mean Moore is bias? Who and what is he bias towards exactly? I see a man who is looking to find the truth in America - exposing what should be exposed - he isn't making shit up - he's visually expressing his findings....Your sounding like a true republican, and if you are thats cool, we just don't share the same views, therefore, NO MATTER what we may argue here, neither will of made our point because we both have our views and opinions - and as in the movie "thank you for smoking" both of us could argue our points until out of breath - and both be right. Have you seen Sicko to discredit it already? Have you seen his other movies like Roger and Me? I just do not see how he is being biased in those, he's making awareness based on HIS FINDINGS - HIS TRUTHS....if people have a CHOICE to listen to him, or to listen to another figure based on their views...
America IS naive, definitely. But I'm not America, I'm me, i have my own mind, and my own thoughts on the matter.....If you are agreeing that our healthcare system is messed up, then what exactly seems to be the problem with Moore's findings regarding our current healthcare situation? I mean he's even gotten some republicans eye's to open! I firmly believe that this movie is creating more awareness that our system isn't perfect...and I do hope that in MM's efforts that something will be done to help move things forward. Again have not seen it yet, but I am familiar w/ Moore's films...I took a film class in college and we were required to study Moore - so maybe since I'm also coming from that angle, I see things in a different perspective than you do...
replace "Michael Moore" with whoever directed loose change and take the subject of health care and replace it with 9/11...
same arguement, you're taking a video, a movie that appeals to people to bar none at it's base, make money, as truth.
What do you mean Moore is bias? Who and what is he bias towards exactly?
Rather than weed out factual information and bias you're taking the film (made for money and projecting views) as complete truth and telling me to "prove him wrong".

Now apply the same logic you did to Loose Change to this film.

I'm just wanting you to use some salt is all.

[DesignVHL]

BUT how do YOU KNOW or what makes YOU think that his film making is all about Money and profits? Projecting HIS views YES - he has a right to put whatever he wants to in his films, and we as film viewers have a right to discuss these films based on the content - and believe them or not! Of course you can't believe everything you see or hear...I am just trying to make the point that while you may think he is in it for the $, and to project his views, I see him as a film maker/artist/documentor with HIS own perspective on things, and is doing his best to creatively express them...whether he cuts up his media and moves things about (as thats film editing for you)....for gives you the straight video footage and words (which is obviously what is most debatable) ...you can't replace specific topics and think they are the same movie, that makes no sense. I never said his movies were complete truth btw...all I am saying is he's a damn film maker - its his job....just like was designers have to create and communicate ideas - that we may not always believe are correct, or ethical or true.....don't artists create concepts based on their views and research? My guess is based on HIS research and findings he does the same things...and while in th eprocess it is easy for anyone to create their own Assumptions and such based on their own findings...so what HE is communicating based on his findings add up in his mind, but perhaps may not add up in the minds of other people, like you...its all subjective ... lunch time...

[Jackimalyn]

Woah DesignVHL... here, I'm parting with two for you...
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j139/jackimalyn/Chill-Pill.png http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j139/jackimalyn/Chill-Pill.png
Seriously, this forum is filled with all sortsa people.We have pretty heated discussions and debates sometimes, you just have to remember that we have opinions too and its nothing against you personally, just a difference of opinion.

By the way, you wont win. no one does in these arguments.

[Jackimalyn]

Jeeze those were huge. Maybe grind them up in your coffee. (decaf...)

[Kool]

250,000 mg! That's a half a pound each. http://home.comcast.net/~rnick9/icon_rofl.gif

[Jackimalyn]

sometimes I get a little riled up. I took one about a month ago tho so I should be chill for another couple of weeks or so.

[jimking]

Woah DesignVHL... here, I'm parting with two for you...
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j139/jackimalyn/Chill-Pill.png http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j139/jackimalyn/Chill-Pill.png
Seriously, this forum is filled with all sortsa people.We have pretty heated discussions and debates sometimes, you just have to remember that we have opinions too and its nothing against you personally, just a difference of opinion.

By the way, you wont win. no one does in these arguments.
My healthcare plan won't pay for these chillpills! Rat bastids.:p

[DesignVHL]

lol i'm chill, i'm chill, lol :) I've been around awhile, I know hot it is. I am not trying to win or lose anything just talking....you were making points, I'm making counter points! I look at it more of a discussion than a debate or argument. :) Again I am no advocate or major fan of his work, I am more or less referring to Sicko and that it IS true about our messed up health care system...that's the bottom line....I don't know what is truth and fact vs what he's conjuring up in his film edits - regarding his previous films, but I do know there are a lot of people who have taken both sides of that fence....and I have not read or heard or seen anything to prove or disprove EITHER SIDE...

now that thats done with, lol....our health care system does need an overhaul and that should be more the topic of discussion, rather than whether we can call Moore credible or not - the facts are there regardless of whether his film was made or not...I DO think he's created more awareness that it is out there, and hope that people do speak up and do something...like back in the old days...u know when we made our independence, and when women stood up for themselves as citizens!

[Two-Toe Tom]

i haven't seen the film, but i think there was some criticism here in canada because the film makes out canada's health system better than it actually is.

[Kool]

l

now that thats done with, lol....our health care system does need an overhaul and that should be more the topic of discussion, rather than whether we can call Moore credible or not -

Good point, I just wish there was something we average citizens could do about stuff like this. As long as the people we elect from both parties are more interested in insurance industry dollars than what's really best for the people nothing is gonna change. I know we speak with our votes but it doesn't seem to be working because we keep electing the same corrupt bunch every election.

[John G]

I am more or less referring to Sicko and that it IS true about our messed up health care system...
and I have not read or heard or seen anything to prove or disprove EITHER SIDE...
our health care system does need an overhaul...
lol wut?

I DO think he's created more awareness...
I'll agree there.
But awarness gives you jack and shi t unless you know what to do with it.

[DesignVHL]

well, back in the olden days, us citizens weren't AFRAID to speak up and say anything! We accomplished more back then! I think people saw more eye to eye.....Yes we protest the current war, but its nothing the like vietnam protests! What we did back to gain our independance, we stood together and fought for our rights...again like Women when they were repressed, and the blacks when they were repressed....no one does anything like this anymore - at least SO IT SEEMS!

Kool I'm with ya on the fact that the people all they care about is MONEY MONEY MONEY - and big business thats what gov't focuses on behind the scenes - and its not like they even hide it that much....they care about oil....and their welbeing...not the full wellbeings of the citizens of the country...I think we are again at a point where the US people NEED to get together to make change...and right now we are all TOO DIVIDED between parties....there's so many sectors no one can agree on anything! So we are just going to keep going in circles and circles....and voting yep not sure how much of that really does have an impact either.....voting the same corrupt groups of people....could get into conspiracy theories, lol (i'm not one) but damn kinda makes you think about how much control and decision making we really do or do not have.

[DesignVHL]

lol wut?


I'll agree there.
But awarness gives you jack and shi t unless you know what to do with it.

will also agree w/ that last statement...

but you just took my other quots out of context relating to the conversation, so u kinda just pulled a Moore yourself there! :P

I think it goes back to citizens sticking up for what is right....and no one does anything to really speak out anymore - in large enough numbers to make an impact...there are many leaders...with different followers...the idea would be to get all the leaders to unite as one - with one unique vision and way to solve the problem...but that won't happen because w/ so many different views on the subject, its hard to come to an agreement - such is the case in many political avenues these days.

[carter the artist]

i haven't seen the film, but i think there was some criticism here in canada because the film makes out canada's health system better than it actually is.

hey in comparison, it's the bees knees. The main points in the movie (as I understand them) is that companies are getting rich off medical practices. The health care gets to pick and choose who gets coverage. Everything is WAY overpriced when you need medical care. We give free medical to those Evil Doers who are being held without any other rights in G-mo, yet those who Helped 9-11 survivors are dying and NO medical people will help them... that is some of the more important things I've heard so far.

[John G]

but you just took my other quots out of context relating to the conversation, so u kinda just pulled a Moore yourself there! :P
edit: uh... that didn't make sense before..so,,
So are you saying that I'm biased? Or that's just a version of "the truth".

We give free medical to those Evil Doers who are being held without any other rights in G-mo, yet those who Helped 9-11 survivors are dying and NO medical people will help them... that is some of the more important things I've heard so far.
brings to mind all the activism for the treatment of those at G-mo was all you ever heard about for months on end...

[carter the artist]

John,

I'm not saying it's a bad thing we are giving them medical treatment. Hell, i want them to have lawyers and trials. But the point that we treat them better in that respect than our own citizens is the point. that's all.

[DesignVHL]

I'd need to study the canadian system to really understand why that comparison was put into the movie...again have not seen it...but right now one of my personal aggravations w/ the industry - aside from lack of heath care for those who need it, and $$$ are the RX companies, the way the are pushing big business, and pushing drugs through doctors and through TV Commercials..>COMMERCIALIZING MEDICATION for profit....drives me CRAZY when i hear ads about "go see your doctor about xyz medication, to see if this medication is right for you" ARHGGG! lol....it all boils down to big business rather than about helping people (what ever happened to this)??



and john, never said anything about being biased....all I said was that you've taken my words out of context, as many anti-moore fans have claimed that he does in his movies (which in respect to that is just movie making and film editing man - Moore isn't the only one that does that - in fact I would gather that there is usually a point to be made, like the thesis of a story or article and sometimes to get that point across different editing is done - like taking things out of context - not saying it's right but it's done all the time...) I'm sure you've fallen into believing some hype that may not be true due to this without even realizing it or questioning its value....you just personally are not a fan of Moore based on conversations and things you've read...where as others have had the opposite experience and feel differently.

[DesignVHL]

edit: uh... that didn't make sense before..so,,
So are you saying that I'm biased? Or that's just a version of "the truth".


brings to mind all the activism for the treatment of those at G-mo was all you ever heard about for months on end...


did i answer your question? I do not think your biased at all, I think you are a person who wants honesty and looks for the truth, as most of us do - human nature! But sometimes there are no absolute truths....sometimes there are different versions of the truth....and sometimes words and video taken out of context can translate into the truth but may not be....it all can be argued...and unless there are absolute facts to backup a claim, it is hard to believe something...so in some ways I think I am in agreement with your thoughts, but in some other ways, perhaps not...I think I'm going off key now - I am so bad w/ tangents!

[Two-Toe Tom]

john,

I

like

you

how's that for taking your words out of context :p

[jimking]

What I don't like is managed care--HMOs and the like PPIs. I can go on and on about managed care. If I choose a health insurance company that allows me to go to any doctor I want it can get very pricey upwards and beyond $1000 a month. What I never relized is that doctors treat you differently depending on your type of insurance. If it's managed care a doctor will only spend between 10 and 15 minutes with you and there off to a new patient. If its not managed care you may get 1/2 hour and your questions answered. Why, because the doctor earns approximately 1/4 to 1/3 of what he/she would earn from a non magaged care patient. That is why people are hearded in and out quickly like an assembly line or garage and this can and does lead to many problems.

[carter the artist]

Heck I learned all this, outside of my personal experience, just by watching every episode of Scrubs.

[John G]

lol tom. I think VHL and I agreed pretty much on page 3 we just used different words to do it.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing we are giving them medical treatment. Hell, i want them to have lawyers and trials. But the point that we treat them better in that respect than our own citizens is the point. that's all.
I just think we've completely and utterly asked for it to be this way.

I'd just like the activists to realize you can't always have your cake and eat it too. Money doesn't grow on trees unless you like inflation and I don't think everyone would like gas prices after that. I'd just like them to pick a few, get them done, and move onto the next one. Lord knows there's enough causes: cancer, heart disease, darfur, iraq, diabetes, healthcare, wellfare, vets, prisoners of war, detainee's, save the whales, save the planet, don't use plastic, don't use oil, recycle, use nuclear, don't use nuclear, save the animals, end animal fighting, whatever...

I think G-mo detainee's got more attention from activists, the government paid attention, and now we're coming back that "it's not fair". I just take the stance of "well I thought this was what you wanted?"

[carter the artist]

I did not want us to redo our sins of the past in terms of internment camps.

[Tea]

I heard the movie was very good. Are we beyond that? Maybe you've already discussed that part. :rolleyes:

[LeftBrain Artist]

By the way, you wont win. no one does in these arguments.

I do. Care to argue with me on that?

I plan on checking it out, although I might wait for it to come out on DVD. I like Moore's stuff, I think everyone should check it out, its only a couple of hours in comparison to, jeez, anyone care to guess how many hours of health-care-industry-paid for commercials we're subjected to each year?

[urstwile]

I saw it. I thought it was very well done for the most part, although the Gitmo part at the end seemed a bit gratuitous.

The main difference in this one compared to his other ones is that he actually highlights other people, not himself.

[CkretAjint]

hrmmm... must be learning form his mistakes...

[frankster]

I still don't understand the TV ads over here. Some of them just say "ask your doctor about flabobdeefangle to see if it's right for you" without ever bothering to mention what in the hell flabobdeefangle does!?! WTF?

I prefer the UK approach, where it's all free and if it's not urgent then you get your ass in a queue.

[Logo-Mechanix]

I hate to break the news to you all but anyone who thinks univerasal healthcare will be free is going to have a heart attack when they find out how much their taxes will be increased to pay for it. The government pays 700 bucks for a hammer and you want them to decide if you need a triple bypass. Fuhgettaboutit.

[frankster]

700 bucks for a hammer?

honestly, having experienced both the UK and US health care systems, the UK one is by far my preferred method. Mainly because it doesn't make you afraid to go to hospital when you are concerened that something is wrong. In the UK, if you are concerned that something is wrong then you can take your kid or whatever to the ER. Over here when I was pregnant with my second child and had been in prodromal labour for nearly two weeks, she stopped moving for quite a long time and I had been warned to contact the hospital if this happened because the ongoing contractions may have caused her distress. I rang the hospital to see if I should come in and make sure everything was ok. They said "yes, come in now", so I did and they checked her heart rate and after a while longer she moved again, but I was billed for that because nothing was wrong in the end! (NB This was not ER, it was the labour and delivery ward) If she had died of course then the bill would have been covered. WTF!

[Samakimoto Graphics]

I belive I saw a poster for the movie somewhere, don't recal where...

Well, over here I've found that if you insist on the generic drugs they'll give them to you. Some insurance firms here do not refund on generics and therein lies the problem of high cost of health care for the poorer people in the population.

Also there's too many lower level health care providers in Africa, especially in the rural areas that are providing sub-standard care. One such "clinic" ran by a catholic diocese where they charge very cheaply but only administer palliatives and the like, which keeps the poor patients coming back over and over; eventually the "cheap" health care turns into very expensive care as the trips, time and money spent can run into several thousands within a span of three months.

Another such clinic failed to correctly diagnose my little niece's asthma and would instead pump her with anti-biotics and cough syrups that did nothing for her. The crunch came when one doctor I saw there asked me, "What antibiotic was prescribed the last time...how much did it cost?" They also had a very weird system, they never wrote you a prescription instead they'd make sure you had to buy their drugs.

As soon as I got a job tha could afford me better care I took her to an up market childrens hospital and they diagnosed asthma immediately - I couldn't believe it!!! Even her mother had not known it!!!

I've tried reporting the clinic too the authorities, but nothing is done as the health care system is a shumbles anyway, so if the Catholic diocese can supplement the already poor care... So who will the poor turn to.

[Zendada]

A classic case of kill the messenger.

There are many great scenes in the movie that demonstrate why universal healthcare is a good thing, how it can be done, how America does not have it and why, and how we could and should have it at a negligable cost.

Regardless if you like MM or not its worth seeing before criticizing.

[Logo-Mechanix]

The guy is such a hypocrit I wouldn't contribute one dime of my hard earned money to him which is also why I will not critisize his movies having not seen them. From what I have read the countries that have this form of health care also have their share of problems with it. The bottom line is no system is perfect and letting the government run it will just be another reason to tax us to death. If you are sick or injured and don't have insurance you go to the emergency room, it is against the law for them to refuse to treat you. I cannot afford to pay any more in taxes for government programs that will not work and probobly make things worse. But thats just the way I see it.

[TheBluePanda]

If you are sick or injured and don't have insurance you go to the emergency room, it is against the law for them to refuse to treat you.

Yeah, you'll also be paying for the visit for the rest of your life. My friend who can barely make ends meet recently made a visit to the emergency room because he had a really bad stomache ache in the middle of the night. He ended up paying $800 for basically nothing.


Sicko was a great movie, I can only hope it leads to some changes.

[AlexNJ210]

Yes the US healthcare system IS inadequate and extremely expensive and over-priced. Pharmaceutical companies and Health Insurance agencies have comitted many attrocities over the decades that they have never taken responsability for, YES things need to be fixed..............WHO THE F#%$ DIDN'T KNOW THAT ALREADY!!!!!!!!! I MEAN REALLY, WHO DOES NOT KNOW THAT HEALTHCARE IS WAY TOO EXPENSIVE AND INADEQUATE......WHO THE HELL HASNT NOTICED THAT A CRAP LOAD OF PEOPLE ARE WITHOUT HEALTHCARE BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD IT??? I am sick and tired of a scum bag like Moore, who made a movie like Bowling for columbine, taking credit for stating the obvious. If this guy was really an activist, he would be in government trying to REALLY do something about changing things, but no, he decided he wants to stick to making controversial, attention grabbing movies about crap that millions of people already know because he knows he's going to start a raucus!!! Micheal Moore is an expert at exploiting entertainment media and he is as ego centric as any other entertainer out there, his movies are not just about solving problems and getting people to think about issues with our country, he made these movies because he's in love with his own point of view and his success is getting all these people to agree with him, NOT ACTUALLY SOLVING ANY PROBLEMS. After creating his movie, did he help anyone with the profits of the movie? I dont know but i certaintly didnt hear anything about it. He is no different than any other director out there, he wouldnt get the kind of financial backing for his movies if they werent going to make money. why is he coming out with content challenging the government now? Because its the perfect time, the audience is ripe for controversial talk.

Despite how much i despise this guy, he is pointing out something that needs our country's attention...BADLY. However everyone throws around the statements "free healthcare" and "universal healthcare" in the same sentence. EARTH TO THE POPULATION, HEALTHCARE EVERYWHERE IS NOT FREE. Let me ask the canadians and others from European countries...How high is your taxes....i know in germany which has a "universal healthcare system" people pay almost 60% in taxes and i bet much of that is for aid and healthcare. If you think for a second the government controlling healthcare is going to SOLVE the problem that healthcare is too expensive and not enough people are getting it you're completely blind and naive. With taxes sky rocketing and not to mention the dive the economy would take, people wouldnt make enough money to support themselves not to mention the lack of jobs available. This kind of approach would cause a whole host of readjustments and changes that this country AND its people are not ready to accept. Its a really nice idea, but thats the problem it is TOO idealogical. Its a BIG problem and a real solution should be at the forefront of common political debate AND actionl. If Moore starts up conversation about this that moves things in a good direction then thats great for everybody, but im not going to give that idiot an ounce of credit for being someone who "really cares" about these issues. He is basking in the lime light much more than fighting in the trenches to help those who need it.

.....and now back to the healthcare discussion, Moore officially deleted.

[Logo-Mechanix]

Very well said Alex, exactly what I was trying to get at. My Mom was inbetween jobs and without insurance, she had an instance which needed medical care. She went to the emergency room was treated and because she had no insurance she was put in contact with someone at the hospital who worked a payment plan for her to pay the bill. Basically she pais what she could when she could but she got the treatment she needed which was the important part.

[Zendada]

Congress just passed a College Cost Reduction Act that adds $18 billion dollars in student aid over the next 5 years without raising any taxes. The money comes from stoping over-inflated student loan company fees.

Just an example of how good things can happen without raising taxes. I am positive there are things we are paying for now that the money could be better spent on universal healthcare. I am more inclinced to think “we can” than “we can’t”.

[AlexNJ210]

thanks logo, the whole subject just gets me worked up. And i hate it when people give that guy praise like he's a visionary.

[AlexNJ210]

Congress just passed a College Cost Reduction Act that adds $18 billion dollars in student aid over the next 5 years without raising any taxes. The money comes from stoping over-inflated student loan company fees.

Just an example of how good things can happen without raising taxes. I am positive there are things we are paying for now that the money could be better spent on universal healthcare. I am more inclinced to think “we can” than “we can’t”.
good point. Im not saying that we cannot do something about it, just saying that its not like other countries have found a solid method either. I think we can do it, we should do it, but we need to be ready for the changes that WILL happen, but hopefully we can minimize damaging changes and find happy solutions like the one you mentioned.

[captain spanky]

yep this is one of the few times i like to live in the eng-er-land.
I know we moan about it, but british healthcare is a lot better to cope with than some other countries. You can still get cared for if you have nothing.

[carter the artist]

to all of you who are complaining about how it will raise taxes. First, I'm paying taxes for a damned war I NEVER supported and my great-great-great grandkids will be paying for this damned war. Thank you Bush!

But if that's your excuse, then let's do nothing. Let us continue the ugly cycle where the pharms keep paying off our government, and keep getting richer while those who NEED health care are denied, yet those who are wealthy will keep getting better. you're right, it's too much money. Yet somehow we were able to come up with a few Billion dollars to Attack a country and whatnot.

[AlexNJ210]

i suppose not spending money to protect our country is a good solution too. No american wants to pay high taxes, regardless if they create a system where there is no direct cost for health care from our paychecks. I mean people go up in arms over a half a percent at times and if you think converting to a system where the government provides ALL healthcare needs to everyone is not going to cost the amrican public more money you've got problems. Supporting a few hundred thousand troops with supplies, weapons, and aid is far less expensive than a nationwide doctrine for universal healthcare. In america, we're not talking 2 or 3 billion, try tens or even hundreds of billions. The money has to come from somewhere, and its going to mostly be us. The quality of medical practice in this country can be very good, problem is the divide that costs create, people try to get cheap healthcare and it winds up like every other product out there, the cheaper it is the worse the quality. I am not saying that the government doesnt spend money like a child does, but i am saying that given our government and economical structure, certain things just arent going to fly. If people realized how much of an affect the profits of major companies like pharms have on our economy, which affects everyone's standard of living, you wouldnt be so quick to blare out staunch contradictions.

[Logo-Mechanix]

For one I am not wealthy, far from it but I have a slight problem with my taxes being raised 20-30% and you can bet that is exactly what will happen. There is no such thing as free and anyone who thinks there is will get slapped with the reality stick real quick. I am not saying people should be denied decent health care but I don't believe the system being proposed is the way to go. So your telling me you will not mind one bit if your taxes go through the roof to pay for yet another goverment program that will be just as screwed up and abused as most of the others. Wellfare anyone.

From now on I'm just going to wait for Alex to comment and say "Yeah what he said".

[AlexNJ210]

thank you! ^^^^

[AlexNJ210]

oh and by the way, if we pull out of the middle east, they arent going to go away, WTC bombing in the 90's ring a bell. We werent out there hunting terrorists like we are now and they STILL were coming after us. So i guess we should let a group of people with tremendous political influence who believes death, killing, and totalitarianism is God's will for them to do, and its good to teach 8 year old children how to make pipe bombs to strap to their chests and to believe the rest of the world is the devil and that we are hoarding animals that will kill their families for no reason and we should be annihilated off the face of the earth, we should let these people just fester and grow so they can become a giant regime will no moral or ethical standard for life. All in favor of letting these bastards exist please say "I". I F$%# dare you.

[TheBluePanda]

And i hate it when people give that guy praise like he's a visionary.

He's not a visionary, but at least he's doing something. If everybody does nothing, nothing will happen. You gotta give props to people for standing for something, even if you don't necessarily agree with it.

[AlexNJ210]

He's not a visionary, but at least he's doing something. If everybody does nothing, nothing will happen. You gotta give props to people for standing for something, even if you don't necessarily agree with it.
you're absolutely right, but do you think he's a role model for this kind of issue? IMO it is very difficult to take this guy seriously. BUT like i said if the debate continues and actions are take by people and on a govt. level than it benefits everyone. How likely that is using Moore's tactics...well you decide...but i don't think it's a productive approach. All he did in reality is put the issue on the table. HOW he did it is another story.

[jimking]

I'm 50 and there is a big difference in healthcare now then there was 20 years ago. The insurance companies, especially managed care such as a HMOs, are the difference. They are the middlemen in it for profit, extracting resourses out of the doctor's practice straight into their pockets. The doctor is forced depending on his contract with the insurance company to treat a patient a particular way to make a profit for him/herself and the insurance company. I think the link between being employed and healthcare is flawed also. Take for example a person who developes a incurable chronic lifetime disease and becomes disabled. Depending on the employer of course most would dump you for abvious reasons. For profit insurance companies will do the same in time and when you attempt to pick up new insurance you'll get the old "Preexisting Conditions" clause. The same logic applies when one chooses a hospital for something serious, the worst hospitals are privately ownd profit motivated. The best hospitals are university hospitals in most cases. What causes this? I am in the opinion that cutting cost is how they make a profit. Unfortunitly, this can kill and does. I've experienced this and other brickwalls in helping a loved one very close to me through this mess and it is making me very angry to say the least and the battle has just begun. I think our system needs to change and give the doctors back more control that they had several years ago instead of being under control of a profit motovated insurance companies. As you get older be sure to change your type of insurance and to at least scrap the HMO.

[carter the artist]

Alex, we pulled out of Vietnam when everyone said not too... jee that worked out.

And Quit listening to the b.s. our "leader" speaks. Iraq is not connected to 9-11.

[AlexNJ210]

Were the vietnamese forming terrorist organizations and bombing our world financial districts in an attempt to bring our economy down........uh no. Vietnam was a military and governmental fiasco, and mistake, i agree with you there. But to compare vietnam to now is a gross generalization. And i have not stated that Bush is a great president and that he's not making any mistakes by the way, but i dont really feel all that comfortable on my home soil because of 9-11, you being from california i can understand how it could not possibly have affected you as strongly as me. SOMEONE has to do something about that part of the world and until the rest of the world grows a set there is always going to be turmoil there AND HERE. If you think shit isnt going to go down on our soil again, you're mistaken. I would like to spend less time mocking my own president and more time making choices that help the troops and voting on politicians who can do the right thing. Iraq and Saddam definitely were not related to 9-11, but Saddam was definitely helping terroist groups in the middle east. It's not the "weapons of mass destruction" that scare me, it's the thought that people are plotting endlessly in efforts to bring down this country. All they lack is money and resources, thus the drastic measures they take. Everything those scum do is underhanded and mortally insane. There are no happy go lucky answers to this, but one thing i DO KNOW is that walking away is NOT going to stop little kids from becoming smart bombs. They have NO BOUNDARIES to the attrocities they are willing to commit. Have you ever seen the footage of concetration camps from worldwar 2 and the PILES of bodies of innocent people. Dont think for a second those extremist groups would have it any other way for us if they had the chance. I for one dont want them to ever have it. Neither should the rest of the world. Ideolgies should be diverse and individual among nations but you cant seriously say its right to let psychos like osama bin laden to parade around with an army at his fingertips unabided.

[carter the artist]

I know for a fact that N. Korea was a Bigger threat to the US than Saddam, but since they look like the terrorists (BTW, the people who attacked us were ALL from Saudi Arabia, not Iran, Not Iraq, Not Afghanistan, Not any where else!)

Sorry, I'm gonna walk away, since this is gonna end up being a special olympics event...

[AlexNJ210]

Carter, how do you know that?

[jimking]

I'm 50 and there is a big difference in healthcare now then there was 20 years ago. The insurance companies, especially managed care such as a HMOs, are the difference. They are the middlemen in it for profit, extracting resourses out of the doctor's practice straight into their pockets. The doctor is forced depending on his contract with the insurance company to treat a patient a particular way to make a profit for him/herself and the insurance company. I think the link between being employed and healthcare is flawed also. Take for example a person who developes a incurable chronic lifetime disease and becomes disabled. Depending on the employer of course most would dump you for abvious reasons. For profit insurance companies will do the same in time and when you attempt to pick up new insurance you'll get the old "Preexisting Conditions" clause. The same logic applies when one chooses a hospital for something serious, the worst hospitals are privately ownd profit motivated. The best hospitals are university hospitals in most cases. What causes this? I am in the opinion that cutting cost is how they make a profit. Unfortunitly, this can kill and does. I've experienced this and other brickwalls in helping a loved one very close to me through this mess and it is making me very angry to say the least and the battle has just begun. I think our system needs to change and give the doctors back more control that they had several years ago instead of being under control of a profit motovated insurance companies. As you get older be sure to change your type of insurance and to at least scrap the HMO.
You guys can comment on the above if you want. :)

[AlexNJ210]

yea sorry about that. I think ive said all i can about the healthcare thing :).

[Logo-Mechanix]

I'll comment Jim, your right there is a big problem with health care in this country and it did seem to work better years ago for some reason. It seems the insurance companies are always trying to find wiggle room when it comes to treatment for something but I think that will get one thousand times worse if they institue some kind of nationlized health care. I also don't understand why you even need these middlemen in health care it seems like they just found a way to get their beak wet at our expense.

[John G]

Sorry, I'm gonna walk away, since this is gonna end up being a special olympics event...
lawl cuz if we don't take the left view we're obviously all right wing nut job cool-aid drinker morans lawl.

[Logo-Mechanix]

I should mention that I really like coolaid, add a little vodka (not the cheap stuff) and it's really good.

[LeftBrain Artist]

I also don't understand why you even need these middlemen in health care...

WE KNOW HOW TO TALK TO THE CUSTOMERS!!!!! WE HAVE PEOPLE SKILLS!!! WHY CAN'T YOU MORONS UNDERSTAND THAT!!???

[John G]

I should mention that I really like coolaid, add a little vodka (not the cheap stuff) and it's really good.
try Sunny delight. You can go like 60% vodka 40% Sunny D and it still tastes exactly like Sunny D. 0.o


And thus completes my dialogue on health care... uh yea

[Logo-Mechanix]

No need to yell there LBA I hear ya alright. Thanks for that tip there John G I don't drink much vodka but when I do I like the good stuff. I was never a big fan of Sunny D but with the right ingredients....

[carter the artist]

Carter, how do you know that?
I was there.

sorry, i left but I have to explain this.

When I was stationed there, I had seen some paperwork on things...

But public knowledge is coming out, They had nuculear programs... they have missiles that can hit Alaska (what can Iraq hit?), they finally did use an underground nuke. They have been sending infiltration units across the border for over Fifty years and causing havoc/death. We have never finished that situation and left it in an unstable crap hole for over fifty years... how the hell do you expect us to clean up the middle east?

North has HUGE hatred of US! The propaganda pieces I saw with my own eyes in the field is more real than the lies of some yellow cake that was forged... who forged that paperwork? who cares since Libby walked.

There is more to this than most civilians will ever know, and only those of us who have seen things that were never reported will truly comprehend.

[DesignVHL]

BOTTOM LINE: The Problem with our health care system is because of MONEY and BIG BUSINESS! PERIOD. Fix corporate greedy a-holes, and get bush out of office and we may stand a chance! Honestly if we could get some good intelligent people who really CARE about the wellbeing of the country and the people, and LESS about corporate contracts and business relationships aside from the greedy buttheads, we'll all be much happier...and I happen to believe that our money could be redirected and spent much better on our health care systems with out raising taxes too terribly....of course I am no financial advisor...and maybe this is a stupid example...but have you guys ever seen the movie Dave? A revisit to our budget w/ a new president and staff may be exactly what we need to revamp things....i know its harder than it may seem and sounds easy to us non political people....but still...it all comes down to greedy bastards monopolizing the market....fix that and we may be able to fisx the health system....ugh.

ON another note, I would like to ask why we have not impeached bush yet if he has less than a 30% approval rating? Oh wait then we would be stuck w/ Cheney..is that right? OR would there just be a new election held? hmm.

[reuber1]

I don't know about the rest of you but I farted real hard and it stinks like yesterday's hamburgers.

[John G]

Fix corporate greedy a-holes, and get bush out of office and we may stand a chance! Honestly if we could get some good intelligent people who really CARE about the wellbeing of the country and the people, and LESS about corporate contracts and business relationships aside from the greedy buttheads, we'll all be much happier
That cannot and willnot ever happen. Greed is what our economy is all about. Religion tries to teach that... but we can't have religion in the state now can we?

[DesignVHL]

did you crap your pants when you did that?

[DesignVHL]

That cannot and willnot ever happen. Greed is what our economy is all about.

of course that is the case, it is just so freakin' sad and pathetic that our country has gotten like this....its not like i'm looking to live in some utopian happy place society...but the PROBLEMS WITH OUR COUNTRY ALL LEAD BACK TO BIG BIZ and GREED - and until that is realized things will continue to get worse...its already spreading globally over the last 50 years...i'm sure nothing willl change...but it is still good to talk about and get pissed off! :P

[Logo-Mechanix]

I don't smell anything Reuber. Ummm DesignVHL you can't impeach anyone because of approval rating if that was the case all of congress would be impeached, republican and democrat alike.

[DesignVHL]

yeah your right logo, lol but we can all hope he screws up enough soon so that we can get rid of him! :P DAMN IT BUSH why can't you just make one stupid mistake enough to kick your butt out! (*I assume most of us here are anti-bush?)

[John G]

of course that is the case, it is just so freakin' sad and pathetic that our country has gotten like this....its not like i'm looking to live in some utopian happy place society...but the PROBLEMS WITH OUR COUNTRY ALL LEAD BACK TO BIG BIZ and GREED - and until that is realized things will continue to get worse...its already spreading globally over the last 50 years...i'm sure nothing willl change...but it is still good to talk about and get pissed off! :P
That's the way it always was though... except our benefits have gotten better...

[Kool]

Ummm DesignVHL you can't impeach anyone because of approval rating if that was the case all of congress would be impeached, republican and democrat alike.

Heh heh, yeah but you can impeach one out of pure malicious spite as was shown a few years ago. ;)

Steps back from giant can of worms that he just opened.

[AlexNJ210]

hahaha i love you Rueber

[jimking]

That cannot and willnot ever happen. Greed is what our economy is all about. Religion tries to teach that... but we can't have religion in the state now can we?

People have a habit of twisting something good into greed and power to suit themselves and thats what religion did in Europe years back. The Cathalic Church owned most of the land along with the monarchs and serfdom was prevalent. In the States it seems the lawyers run the show and we know what their motivation is.

[Logo-Mechanix]

Quick, close the can! Theres worms everywhere damn it!

[John G]

Down with corporations! Up with accountability! No more fake people that protect real people!

[Logo-Mechanix]

I say we kill everybody including ourselves and start over....wait then how would we start ove? Oh forget it.

[AlexNJ210]

its true, money and economical gain IS unfortunately what runs america. Its also true its always been like that, however the american people have been getting as greedy as the big busness that fuels our economy. We are all spoiled to shit, if you say no you're lying to yourself. Our standard of living is higher than everywhere else in the world, i mean look at our kids, brattiest bunch of annoying little lifeforms on the planet...gotta love em but still...with all the convienences of american life thats what happens. We walk around with silver platters and automatic butt wipers and we like it that way. Compared to other countries its rediculous. This country is headed for a reform, a reform like the great depression to bring everyone back to reality. Carter, it sounds like you were in the service for our country and i bet it hurt coming home seeing how many people dont appreciate what kind of life they live because of the money and power our country has, and dont appreciate the sacrifices you made to make a life for yourself and protect that lifestyle. Its become a fad more than a real cultural value for americans. I dont think people are as proud of being american as we once were. I know i am, despite the flaws this country has, the beauty of it is that we have the power to change it and its built into our constitution and our rights. We can change the healthcare situation if enough people in the right places start to do whats best for everyone.

[carter the artist]

with all the lies/corruption and broken laws, the whole regime should be impeached. just watch gonzalez on the stand.

[AlexNJ210]

I think part of the reason why the government is looking so bad and getting so sidetracked has been because the strength of the media has exploded in the last 10 years. People are seeing things further and further into the whitehouse and other parts of government that we just were not previously. The public is getting connected to the internet and information is the new age drug, people thirst after the juicy bits and the media is reaching deeper and deeper into everywhere to find those bits, they are even shaping the way events and times are being percieved. We are in a big mess these days, i wonder what things will be like for my kids, when i have them, when they grow up. Ugh, now im all pissed for the day. Great. :(

[jimking]

I think part of the reason why the government is looking so bad and getting so sidetracked has been because the strength of the media has exploded in the last 10 years. People are seeing things further and further into the whitehouse and other parts of government that we just were not previously. The public is getting connected to the internet and information is the new age drug, people thirst after the juicy bits and the media is reaching deeper and deeper into everywhere to find those bits, they are even shaping the way events and times are being percieved. We are in a big mess these days, i wonder what things will be like for my kids, when i have them, when they grow up. Ugh, now im all pissed for the day. Great. :(

All true.

[Kool]

Quick, close the can! Theres worms everywhere damn it!

http://home.comcast.net/~rnick9/icon_rofl.gif

[urstwile]

I often hear people decrying the amount of taxes we'll all have to pay if we get universal healthcare. Logo makes a good point in terms of the inefficiency of our government spending, i.e., the $700 hammer point. But...

We're all paying premiums for our healthcare already are we not? If I want to cover my husband with my company healthcare, I'll need to spend an additional $250 a month to do so. Since he works in an industry that typically does not cover its employees, he has no health coverage at all (that industry would be the restaurant industry).

And we can't afford to cover him through my work coverage. So when he's sick he goes to the emergency room. Who pays for that? He does. Or if he can't pay for it (as I suspect many emergency room patients cannot) where does the money come from? No doubt from the taxes that we all pay.

Maybe there are some that are fortunate enough to have their healthcare coverage entirely funded by their company. All I know is that I'm having money deducted from my paycheck every week for health coverage. My company pays for a good deal of it, but I still have money deducted as well. As Jimking stated, this is not the way it was 20 years ago, when I didn't have to pay a dime.

More and more companies are asking employees to foot the bill, family coverage is through the roof, and this is for insurance. It's in the best profit interests of the insurance companies to nickel and dime everyone who makes a claim. That's how they make their profit. So people feel the false comfort of "I have health insurance" but there's no actual assurance that their conditions will be covered by the insurance that they've been paying for. This is a major point in "Sicko".

In addition, we (as a country) pay premium prices for medications. The pharmaceutical companies have an incredibly powerful lobby, and do their damndest to make sure that affordable medication is not an option for the majority.

There have been NAFTA restrictions, or attempts at restrictions, on countries that have wanted to offer generically priced medications for all kinds of things, under the umbrella that this is unfair trade. Unfair trade? To provide affordable medications to third world countries? Hmm.

I'm in agreement that Michael Moore has done some questionable things in other movies, but I strongly believe that this is a movie that people need to see before critiquing it, because it's one where he's not featured very strongly. It stresses the fact that people who feel covered end up not being able to get the treatment they need, even after years of paying for their insurance.

When my mom, who lives in Belgium, visits here, she is deathly afraid of getting sick here, because she wouldn't be able to afford the treatment that she'd need. In Belgium, she doesn't have to worry about it.

Yes, she pays taxes that deal with it, but at least she's also assured that she's completely covered, no questions asked, no "pre-existing condition" caveats.

So in my mind, if you pay additional taxes, and can still get treatment for a condition that your insurance company here in the U.S. might dispute, which would not be disputed in a country like Belgium where you're paying for your healthcare through your taxes, I'll take the latter as an option.