Opinions on Online Schools/Community Colleges for Newbie!

[kara_mia]

Hi!
My name is Kara and I am interested in pursuing a career in graphic design. My background is history, and I have worked for many, many years in thankless administrative jobs. I just moved to Panama City Beach from the Tampa Bay area. I am an artist at heart and am deciding to pursue my passion. Due to my current financial situation, I am stuck in the Florida Panhandle and must work full time. Schooling options are limited here. I am two hours or more away from the closest universities FSU and UWF. As far as actual campuses, my only options are community colleges. Therefore, I am very intrigued by the numerous online graphic design schools available. I have a few questions that I need answered individuals experienced in the industry to help me on my way to pursuing my dreams!....

1. What does everyone think of online schooling? There are a few I am interested in. One in particular is Sessions.edu. Is anyone familar with the school?

2. The Sessions school brings up another question. Sessions offers certificate programs, not degree programs. Is one better than the other? What will really help me get the job?

3. Community college courses... If the instruction is good, is this just as valuable as any other form of education.

4. Any other advice getting into the field is appreciated!;)

[DesignVHL]

I am very against online universities for degrees. If you want to learn graphic design - for a career, it would be best to attend a good university program so you can learn about things you can't learn from a book or through online training....and thats design industry standards, best practices, design processes, rights and wrongs, composition..list goes on....

now if you jsut want to learn a new program relating to design, then online classes are probably ok, but if you want this as a career, I would go back to school full time ...if it isn't an option, I can't give you a solution, as I'm against taking schooling online....you really just will not pick up what you need to learn properly...I feel that not having personal interaction is a huge loss.

BUT over all, your folio will speak for itself...a session cert. will not get you anything....and actually many employers look at that and think PFFT! so...if you really want to get into design...try to see what the closest schools have to offer...even if it is a jr college / 2-year program if they have a design curriculum, its better than taking something online.

[kara_mia]

Thanks!

[John G]

if it isn't an option, I can't give you a solution, as I'm against taking schooling online....you really just will not pick up what you need to learn properly...I feel that not having personal interaction is a huge loss.
I'll argue that depends on your own determination and how mature and devoted you are for said degree. Just out of highschool I would not recommend it, but for something like a master's or later on in life it can be a very viable alternative.

Granted there's still a ways to go with credibility (I think it's still looked down upon) but I think that's mainly due to the current bad practices for online teaching. "Here's a video to watch and a multiple choice test to do afterwards".. totally completely uterly wrong.
If your course gets to collaborative and interactive side of things..if you have a good teacher and you have the dedication it can be just as rewarding however. I would recommend something where you meet with your instructors every class period through online meetings or at the very least message boards or e-mail lists. Something like Pheonix Online comes to mind, although not completely ideal, they at least have a minimum of two face to face meetings/classes at a local community college to start things off and end them.

The technology is all there to do it and do it right, it's just most schools don't have the funds reserved for distance learning like the military does. As a caution, stay away from the "box of books" (video or comletely by e-mail stuff) that's effective in some cases, and for some courses works best. But you really want your excersizes and critique sessions to be collaborative (real time or not) with real instructors (they're going to make you or break you with this sort of instruction). Ala message boards a e-mails at the least. Something with real time video, voice, screen sharing would be best (Adobe Connect or the like).

IF the online course is advanced enough and the instructor isn't a retard it's possible to get the exact same learning as with a classroom course. The trouble is most universities treat distance learning as the red headed step child with no funding (lecture video's = online course.... there's no debate, no asking questions.. it's crap) and they're usually facilitated by student teachers or some crap which will just kill your learning just like it does in the real classroom (lack of experience, not taking it seriously etc).

[Virgo Nightingale]

I think it's also dependent on the course material. Subject matter that is concept-driven (like graphic design) should be taught in an interactive environment where ideas are exchanged, in real time, among students as well as between the students and teacher. Helps get the brain flowing with ideas.

As DesignVHL mentions, if you're studying something more concrete like a program that will help you with your graphics, studying it online should be fine—as long as you have at least some background in a similar program or know that you're the type of person who can pick up on the ins & outs of a program with relative ease.

[budafist]

It depends on the person. Personally, I needed to go into class each day to learn. If left to learn online in my own time, it would be far to easy to see it as a 3 year holiday.

I personally like to see other people's creative processes and the stuff you learn from other students while brainstorming or just discussing and sharing ideas is priceless.

I feel that learning online is like working in a bubble. Graphic design is about communication. Working by myself online, I would feel very isolated.

Saying that though, if you are extremely disciplined and can force youself to work a certain amount of hours every single day, don't mind learning by yourself and can seek help when you need it, fine. Go for it.

[Cyan_Ide]

I agree with budafist and Virgo. Personally, I'd feel like there was a bit missing from my learning if the live classroom interaction of critique and brainstorming were absent from my design training.

[ArchVis]

I think missing the real time critique from peers and instructors will make you a weaker designer. When the classroom is quiet and everyone knows the instructor won't move on until something substantive has been said about the work, that's when the truth really comes out. I took a creative writing class online a few years ago; the crits were worthless.

I also had the opportunity to talk with an aspiring landscape designer who had done all his "training" via distance learning. Not only did he have no sense of design principles, he had the thinnest skin of anyone I've met in the field. For me that's half the value of live, in-person crit: to learn how to quickly analyze what's important to you in your design and defend it, and to learn how to take criticism to heart and grow without taking it personally.

Re: the issue of community colleges... depends on the quality of the program. I had the benefit of some great instructors in architecture and interior design at the community colleges in Arizona. Now that I'm in Virginia, I'd hesitate to take a cooking class at a community college. Your best bet there is to 1) go talk to the chair of the program and find out the level of skill of the instructors, what qualifications the adjuncts have if that's who teaches, and if the classes you're looking at will transfer to a four-year college (you should also call some area colleges and verify this); and 2) talk to some designers in the area and see what they look for when hiring people. In AZ, you could get an entry-level job at an interior design firm with just an associate's from the community college, IF you had a good portfolio of student work and professional service. But again, that'll vary area to area. Where I grew up in New England, there was a huge stigma to community college, so it wouldn't work as well there.

Take my thoughts for what they're worth, since I'm not a graphic designer, but I had a lot of the same concerns and considerations as I got into my career in architectural design. I don't know how it is in graphic design but I know in my field a great portfolio can make up for a non-traditional education.

Dave

[redneckrodney]

Please take this for what it's worth,

I have no where near the experience or knowledge that any of you do. Budafist, I especially hate to seem to disagree with you, because I typically agree with most of your posts. I have seen a lot of your work, and respect and admire it immensely.
Where I have to disagree is that graphic design is a communication medium, and for the most part that communication is with people you will never see or know. How is it that you need to learn that in a situation where you all know each other. It seems to me that the technical part is always learned on the job anyway. What you learn in school is theory, ethiics, business practices, etc., not the actual mechanics of the job itsel.

Just a humble opinion,
Rodney

[redneckrodney]

Appending previous post,

Would like to let you all know that I am a 45 year old grandfather, who has just entered University of Phoenix Online. I intend to learn what they have to teach me, but I also intend to (hopefully not) annoy the h@#l out of you all for real live feedback and advice (from the real world). I truly am very happy to have the opportunit to go to school, and this is the only way I can. I firmly believe that distance learning can work, but you have to work a little harder for it. I also know that I can't get the kind of critique and advice from them that is available here. So please be aware that I am going to annoy you all with a a lot of horrible, amateur stuff.

Thank you in advance for your patience and help,
Rodney

[tZ]

The knowledge you will receive in a class room environment is invaluable in my opinion. Especially, the practice and study that goes into understanding all the principles, elements and theories without thinking about graphic design. I think I learned more in all my fundamental class's then I have in my graphic design class's.

therefore, don't really understand how people can take online courses in learning graphic design… but maybe thats just me. I mean… it must all be based on computer since, how else are you going to show your work? Therefore, how can you expect to learn the fundamentals?… just doesn't seem right to me.

I must admit though, I have learned just about everything I know about web design and that type of stuff from online(not schools) and book but, I just don't see the same being practical with something so subjective.

Design is so subjective in a way that you really need that one on one interaction and instruction until you learn what success and is not as applied to design theory and practice. On the other hand, the web stuff and what not is very technical- it either works or doesn't pretty much.

However, graphic design/visual problem solving is much different and I think it requires that classroom interaction to arrive at successful results. That is until until you understand all the basics and what not pretty well.

[raerae]

I go to the Art Institute full time, and since I also work full time I take some online classes. I started out only taking my general ed courses online because I wanted direct instruction and live critiques for my design courses. I now, have run out of general ed classes and have taken a few online design courses. I notice that the students who are from an online-only environment, are clearly not as good at design, to put it bluntly. They don't have the skills to use the programs, they use the wrong programs for the wrong purposes (like using photoshop for a logo) etc. They don't gain live presentation skills, and they don't have the obligation to directly respond to instructors' and classmates' critiques; they have the option of ignoring peoples' suggestions.

If I had my choice I wouldn't take any courses online. I don't learn from them, they're simply giving me the credits I need to graduate. It's really pretty shameful.

My thoughts on Community Colleges is this (and I've never attended one so I'm speaking based on what classmates' and industry professionals have told me:) The requirements to be a professor or instructor at a community college and state schools are less than those at a private institution. I believe most of my instructors have master's degrees and have been in the industry for a good while. To teach at a community college (at least here in California) you need a Bachelor's degree and two years of experience. So basically, 21 year old me, could go teach, right now. Which seems a little stupid. My school is outrageously expensive, but I feel extremely confident with what I've learned and the networking through instructors is incredible. We also have 95% job placement in your industry of study within six months after graduation. I can't believe I'm plugging AI.

Ultimately, no matter where you go to get your degree, your success will depend on YOU. However, if you got your degree from an online school, or just an Associates from a community college, consider that if any other applicant for the same position has a portfolio reflecting the same skill level as you, the decision of who is hired will come down to what degree you have and where it came from.

Don't get a certificate; I don't believe that will get you anywhere.

[ArchVis]

raerae- gonna have to correct your assertion that "The requirements to be a professor or instructor at a community college and state schools are less than those at a private institution." As the husband of a college professor who just finished her first job search, I may have a little more info to share. The minimum requirement to be a full-time professor at most accredited colleges or universities in the US is a PhD. It doesn't matter if you're talking about Penn State (state school) or Yale (private institution). If you have completed your coursework but you're just waiting for the committee to approve your dissertation, a school may hire you ABD (all but dissertation) with the understanding that if you do not officially receive your PhD in the first year you'll be terminated. The only exception is in the arts, where there typically isn't a PhD program; an MFA is usually the terminal degree.

As for community colleges, you're partly right- to teach as an adjunct you just need a Bachelor's and the relevant experience. To be a full-time instructor, you need at least a master's. I actually liked my adjuncts better, because (for example) my drafting instructor could speak to us about what his architecture firm required, as opposed to vague second-hand knowledge about the industry.

One other thing- I still say the strongest portfolio wins. I dropped out of college in '97, 12 credits shy of a Sociology degree, and I beat out several Landscape Architects for my last job. Under no circumstances am I saying don't get a degree (because my career path would've been shorter and WAY easier had I gotten mine), but don't be over-confident just because you have one. Someone who's ambitious, carries him or herself well, and is damn talented may still edge you out.

I'm totally with you on the certificate though- don't think it's worth it.

Dave

[budafist]

The minimum requirement to be a full-time professor at most accredited colleges or universities in the US is a PhD. It doesn't matter if you're talking about Penn State (state school) or Yale (private institution). If you have completed your coursework but you're just waiting for the committee to approve your dissertation, a school may hire you ABD (all but dissertation) with the understanding that if you do not officially receive your PhD in the first year you'll be terminated. The only exception is in the arts, where there typically isn't a PhD program; an MFA is usually the terminal degree.

As for community colleges, you're partly right- to teach as an adjunct you just need a Bachelor's and the relevant experience. To be a full-time instructor, you need at least a master's. I actually liked my adjuncts better, because (for example) my drafting instructor could speak to us about what his architecture firm required, as opposed to vague second-hand knowledge about the industry.

Just a thought, can you get a MFA or PhD online? Does that mean you could go through your whole design career having never have spoken to another person or had any kind of critique environgment and still be able to teach design?

[redneckrodney]

Buda,

I hate to beat a dead dog, but as far as my understanding is, this forum is for critique, advice, help, and interaction. I seiously doubt that I will ever see you face to face, however to the best of my understanding we are interacting. I also look forward to the time when I feel I have a project worthy of posting on this forum, and in addition to that I look forward (with some trepidation) to your critique. I feel sure that it will be timely, and I feel sure that it will be relevant, and I feel sure that it will be instructional. I really don't mean to disagree, because I really do value your opinion. For some of us a distance education is the only viable option. I do realize that I will have to work harder for relevant, timely, knowledgeable adivce and critique. That is one of the reasons I look to you guys for help.

Thanks for being part of my faculty,
Rodney

[budafist]

Rodney, when there is no decent alternative, then online courses will have to suffice. Forums like these help those that are working alone to get a professional opinion as well as advice on their projects.

What are your reasons for online learning?

[redneckrodney]

Buda,

Thanks for the quick reply. I will try to make my answer short. I am a 45 year old grandfather of 5. I should have finished school in my 20's like most of the rest of the world, but I didn't. Now I have two reasons to finish. I want my grandchildren to realize how important an education is, and that nothing, including age and lack of time should stop you. I also work 2 different jobs. The first is a full time job in maintenance at our local housing authority (not a golorious or totally enjoyable job, but good benefits), and the the second is as a musician playing in local night clubs 2-4 nights a week. Between the two of these I am able to "keep body and soul together." I have finally come to grips with the fact that I have frittered away a lot of my life, but there is still a lot of life left. That is why a traditional "brick and mortar" type education would not work for me... simply no time (in the local universities time constraints). I full well realize that I will have to work harder, and seek critique and advice from other places than UOPX online, and that is why I am so glad y'all (sorry to show my souther side) are here. I am willing to put in the extra time and effort, and I appreciate finding somewhere that will help me.

Thanks,
Rodney

[budafist]

That's cool Rodney or those that work jobs online is a great way to educate yourself. Also, you sound like you are highly motivated and really do want an education.

I know that for myself - when I was straight out of high school and looking to study, I just wouldn't have got anything out of online courses. I needed the discipline of having roll my hungover-student-ass out of bed to be in a classroom to learn! :D Online study for me would be too easy to ignore and procrastinate.

Have you started your online course yet or just in the process of starting?

It would be really great to get an evaluation of the course you are doing - probably start a new thread though as there are often people that come on here asking about which online courses to do.

Even if you start a thread and make a blog type update of your course.

By the way, how long is the course?

[redneckrodney]

Buda,

I have to drag my 45 year old, hungover a#@ out of bed to study also, maybe you missed the part where I play in a club band. Seriously, I just started school, and am through with my first week. Maybe I will start a thread about this and give comments and a progress report as it goes along. I really do intend to rely on you guys for a lot of help in my education, and later in my professional life, so I know I should give back. I can't really give educated critique on design or anything, but this might be something that would be useful to some folks.

Thanks,
Rodney

[budafist]

lol :D good luck then on getting your hungover ass out of bed for your online course!

If ever you need crit on anything, post it up! We love seeing works in progress.

[redneckrodney]

Sorry Buda,

Forgot to answer one of the questions. For a bachelors it takes 120 hours. That's 3 hour per course, maximum of 2 courses (with financial aid anyway) per 9 week period. I figure I will graduate just in time to retire.

Thanks
Rodney