Urban Legends & Truth

[carter the artist]

Okay, this might get a bit ugly.

But I am an agnostic. This gets me into A LOT of trouble, since most of my friends are religious and even my girlfriend's father is a pastor.

I am this way since I need evidence to believe something.

This is true for everything I believe in. This becomes a discussion almost every time my friends and I hang out. mostly because If I'm drinking, I want to pontificate and discuss things.

Where is all this going? Because I am getting real sick of people who 'learn' false information and then spread this information to the point of where it becomes a 'truth'.

People kept repeating the president about WMD and Al Queda links to Iraq... Some people STILL believe this.

Lightning Comes from the Ground, people not the the sky!

And that girl from Florida was found like 23 hours later.

So, this all really got weird this weekend when my buddies' wife started talking about how plastic gives you cancer. If you microwave it or even refill it and freeze it. I was like, MAYBE if heated but no way could it be if it was frozen. They said it was from John Hopkins Cancer Research. I finally checked it yesterday. FALSE!!!!

People, before you spread FALSE information, PLEASE research it! Otherwise it's near impossible to erase the false information from the public mind set and some start thinking it is actual facts.

Sorry, a strange rant But I Really wanted to get this off my chest. So I guess I'm curious. How do you feel about "Truth" and necessity to find the empirical and absolute truths? Or do you feel it's okay to feed false information as long as the ends become a positive outcome?

[Logo-Mechanix]

So you still believe he did not have sexual relations with that woman.:D

I think as long as you don't shove your views down someone elses throat you can believe whatever you want.

[carter the artist]

oh, no I know that he did. :)

so, you think it's okay that people STILL believe in witchcraft or even worse that the earth is flat?

I'm not just talking Politics and Religion. I merely bring that up, because in those two arenas we really polarize ourselves and ignore factual evidence for our own purposes. Call it Confirmation Bias, Selection Bias or Apophenia, It's the same thing.

But there is a whole nother world that I really am focusing on. Such stupid falacies that people keep spreading. Crystals having 'power', Luck, Fate, Destiny, etc... all the things that Occam's Razor should really just eradicate.

[Two-Toe Tom]

evidence? everything's spelled out in the bible, how much more evidence do you need? :p

[D-Frag]

actually lightning can come from the clouds or the ground.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/lightning8.htm

now you just set yourself up to get proved wrong ;) hehe

[frankster]

I'm on a mother's club mailing list and the amount of stupid scaremongering email forwarding that goes on is stupifying. When I first joined I was emailing back rebuttles to the nonsense. They think they are helping each other by forwarding this trash. The microwaving plastic cancer one was one of the first that got sent round that group. You have my sympathy if you have any freinds that forward this idiot propagated spam to you.

[Logo-Mechanix]

I think it's fine if people want to believe the earth is flat or witchcraft or whatever, mostly because I beleive in a freedom so long as it does'nt infringe on the rights of others they can believe pigs fly if they want to. Incidently I am a frim beliver in that last one myself, they're up there I tell ya, no don't look up!

[carter the artist]

D-Frag, you are totally correct. I guess I stated it wrong. I was merely bringing up the point of how it comes from the ground.

My best friend was talking about how he knew this as a kid (he had seen it on some National Geographic thing or something right before this incident),, because his teacher was talking about lightning and he said how it comes from the ground. his whole class laughed at him, but the teacher interjected and stated how he was correct.

[Virgo Nightingale]

This is why I refuse to forward emails that "warn" of little known evils that will kill you... and other chain mail bullcrap like it. I still get emails describing how if I keep forwarding this email, Bill Gates hemself will pay me 30 cents for each and every email reached to show his appreciation for helping him test his new email software. "My cousin's neighbor's hairdresser's son got a check for over $4,000!!!" Yeah, and monkeys might fly out of my butt. Get a life people.

[obesebee]

I think it's a little strange to say that you won't believe something unless there is evidence for it. Unless you are omniscient you are limiting yourself greatly! There is no evidence that categorically states where the earth came from, but you must believe it came from somewhere?

Or do you mean that you won't entertain thoughts that have limited/supernatural evidence (not forgetting that a witness is a good source of evidence)

[cornfed]

I get these all the time, too. My Aunt Laura is the worst. Unfortunately, the people that send these are also lacking in how to properly send an email thus leading to me getting at least 3 copies of the same cute pet or child angel in the same email. Usually, these pictures have absolutely nothing to do with whatever I'm being warned about. Last warning I got was that Mr. Cleans Magic Eraser will burn your skin. If it does, then I have super skin that is impermeable by Magic Eraser.

[Logo-Mechanix]

Now if you just reply to this thread one more time Virgo...

Hey Carter, great now that you have spread false information regarding where lightening comes from I'm gonna go around being misinformed with no real way of knowing whats true and whats not...oh wait, thanks D-Frag.

[Drawing a Blank]

I think it's fine if people want to believe the earth is flat or witchcraft or whatever, mostly because I beleive in a freedom so long as it does'nt infringe on the rights of others...
Unfortunately there are always people who want to shove their beliefs down everyones throats (uh...religious extremists come to mind). Also people believing in things that are untrue or simply being ignorant of the facts hurts us all. Why? Because they vote and make decisions everyday based on their beliefs that may effect a great many people (uh...hate groups and rascists come to mind). I believe in freedom, but I also believe everyone should be well educated and should always keep asking questions.

[Virgo Nightingale]

Now if you just reply to this thread one more time Virgo...
Here I am, Logo... Now how much are you going to give me? :)

[Logo-Mechanix]

But if Carter's belief system is the correct, and I'm just sayin' here, who's to say anyone's beliefs are wrong or right unless there is indisputable evidence to back it up or to the contracdict it.

[Logo-Mechanix]

Here I am, Logo... Now how much are you going to give me? :)

You are almost to the point of receiving your prize if you just...ah never mind it's scam damn it!

[Virgo Nightingale]

You are almost to the point of receiving your prize if you just...ah never mind it's scam damn it!
CRAP!!! I fell for it again... :D

[Logo-Mechanix]

Gets her everytime.:D

[John G]

Sorry, a strange rant But I Really wanted to get this off my chest. So I guess I'm curious. How do you feel about "Truth" and necessity to find the empirical and absolute truths? Or do you feel it's okay to feed false information as long as the ends become a positive outcome?
I'd do either, it depends on the situation. I wouln't flat out deny myself of any option right from the get go.

In advertising, it's kind of what you do anyways.

[frankster]

I still get emails describing how if I keep forwarding this email, Bill Gates hemself will pay me 30 cents for each and every email reached to show his appreciation for helping him test his new email software. "My cousin's neighbor's hairdresser's son got a check for over $4,000!!!" Yeah, and monkeys might fly out of my butt.

It's true! For every person you forward the email to, a monkey flies out of your butt! and you can sell those monkeys and make a decent living out of it!

Now forward this to ten of your closest freinds and badgers will crawl out of your, ahem, yes, well.

[seamas]

I think it's a little strange to say that you won't believe something unless there is evidence for it. Unless you are omniscient you are limiting yourself greatly! There is no evidence that categorically states where the earth came from, but you must believe it came from somewhere?

Or do you mean that you won't entertain thoughts that have limited/supernatural evidence (not forgetting that a witness is a good source of evidence)

It isn't wrong for a sceptic (I am a sceptic agnostic) to assume the world originated somewhere. What is wrong is to assume where it came from without evidence.
I don't believe in ghosts, the Loch Ness Monster, Bigfoot, Extra-terrestrial visits to Earth, supernatural beings, ESP, reincarnation, etc.

As for witnesses: Witnesses are the weakest link in a lawyers case -in a real sense.
In other words, witnesses are GREAT for convincing juries, but are HORRIBLE for getting truth.

Every good law school usually does the same exercise: The professor stages an event. Usually someone runs into the lecture hall, makes a scene, maybe steals something from the professor's desk. The person is in plain sight and is in the room for at least 2 minutes.

After the staged event is over, students are asked to describe what they saw, describe what the person was wearing and then identify the person in a line-up.

The results are almost always disapointing - the vast majority of witnesses remember the events wrong, identify the wrong person in the line-up, make mistakes in describing the actor's clothing, and so-on.

This exercise teaches lawyers to never take an eye-witness at face value, because even without police coaching, or outside pressure, most people can make big mistakes in recalling events.



As for Urban legends: I ALWAY go to snopes.com whenever someone sends me some BS scare story, and then I 'reply to all' with the link to the snopes entry.

My wife belongs to a Mom's group e-mail ring, and she gets that stuff all the time. Ugh.

[carter the artist]

I think it's a little strange to say that you won't believe something unless there is evidence for it. Unless you are omniscient you are limiting yourself greatly! There is no evidence that categorically states where the earth came from, but you must believe it came from somewhere?

Or do you mean that you won't entertain thoughts that have limited/supernatural evidence (not forgetting that a witness is a good source of evidence)

I really regret bringing in the religious aspect to this, but there is an underlying reason why it is a very big part of this aspect of my belief structure.

But, witnesses are NOT a good source of evidence. If you take critical thinking in college you realize that people's memories and perceptions are flawed and can easily be changed over time. Like the people who 'witnessed' Popov's (the pastor whose wife told him via earpiece) miracles. or "Mind Freak" Criss Angel's tricks and take them as Real Magic.

But we have real good supported evidence of aproximatly how old this planet is and how long life has been on it. Yet if you follow the genealogy of the christian bible, we have only been here 6 thousand years. Yet we have skeletal remains MUCH MUCH older.

But, away from the religious aspect.

I am more talking about how, like someone brought up, the email things. People who would actually think some money is waiting for them from some lawyer in Nigeria, or that they can 'track' emails for donations. Or worse, like people who believe the earth is flat.

[Tea]

http://antimonkeybutt.com/monkey_logo.jpgIt's true! For every person you forward the email to, a monkey flies out of your butt! and you can sell those monkeys and make a decent living out of it!

Now forward this to ten of your closest freinds and badgers will crawl out of your, ahem, yes, well.

Carter, do you believe now? :D

[Patrick Shannon]

I think it's scientifically proven that all Email and/or Myspace forwards are urban myth. Funny how people are quick to forward stories around but they somehow pass up forwarding around the Snopes.com response.

[Virgo Nightingale]

Hmmm... badgers coming out of my beaver dam? :confused:

http://i12.tinypic.com/4ti4bh4.jpg

[Typically]

we don't need no stinking badgers!

[Red Kittie Kat]

Whats the old saying ...

Never believe what you hear .. and only 1/2 of what you see ;)

I think if people used more common sense vs blind faith .. they would be a lot happier ... and in less danger of adding Martin Murphy to their pal list and getting a virus that will destroy their PC and blow up their plumbing.

:D

[Virgo Nightingale]

I had a virus once that blew up my plumbing...

[carter the artist]

http://antimonkeybutt.com/monkey_logo.jpg

Carter, do you believe now? :D

I want to believe...
:)

[tuliptree]

LOL Virgo!!!!!

I don't believe anything unless its in the Onion.

Seriously, I think its good to be skeptical, but only if you don't drive yourself insane in the process. Some things are ok to leave alone not knowing. That's probably why I am what I call "agnostic plus" (in western terms I'd fall under atheist classification, but I am not a true atheist either) (sorry to bring religion into this again...).

As for the forwards, I usually take them with a grain of salt, and enjoy the absurdity of them. Now that monkey one.....I want to believe that one with all my heart.

[budafist]

When I get chain email warnings about new health warnings or credit card fraud scams I snope it, bust it and themreply all with what I find. People tend to stop sending things to me because it makes them look like a dick in front of all their friends.

[urstwile]

I do the same thing Buda! :)

[frankster]

I pick and choose who I do that to. My husband lost a freind that he had since he was 14 by "replying all" with the snopes ref a few too many times. :(

[urstwile]

Aww, that's too bad, Frankster.

I also had to finally e-mail a couple of my friends asking them to not forward stuff to me, after receiving one too many e-mails with the end being something like "if you don't forward this to ten people in the next five minutes, all your hair will fall out and you'll be in a fatal accident".

[seamas]

I pick and choose who I do that to. My husband lost a freind that he had since he was 14 by "replying all" with the snopes ref a few too many times. :(

That IS sad, but one would think that the friend would've thought twice before sending out a mass hysteria e-mail after being Snoped.

[carter the artist]

wow, I thought I was the only one who constantly tried to correct their friend's erroneous beliefs and fables...

What kind of person would do that Frankster? That is just odd.

[Kool]

Just don't have any friends like me then you won't have to deal with this stuff.

[amadeupword]

Earlier this week, one our sales reps was running around with a devastated look on her face telling everyone about "HIV-infected needles stashed in gas pump handles", because of a txt message she got.

[budafist]

I pulled the snopes thing on my boyfriends mum about a week ago. I don't think she is very happy with me. She didn't reply and I haven't heard from her since. I can't remember if I reply all or just replied to her. Either way, she probably thinks I'm a smart ass.

Are mother in laws exempt from being snope corrected?

[frankster]

If you want them to attain "official MIL status" ;)

[PrintDriver]

The funny thing here is that 'myth' about the poisons in the plastic container or plastic wrap in the microwave is actually true to some extent.
http://www.foodsafety.gov/~fsg/fs-mwave.html
Scroll down to Containers and Wraps.
I use the CIAC.org Hoaxbuster site rather than Snopes.
It makes entertaining reading at lunch time too.

It would be nice to know everything but alas just not possible. When in doubt, keep mouth shut.

[frankster]

The snopes entry says to only use microwave safe containers designed for cooking too. If someone needs to be told the following:

"Never use thin plastic storage bags, brown paper or plastic grocery bags, newspapers, or aluminum foil in the microwave oven."

Then I can only assume that they are a retarded wombat and have only survived to reading age due to being a freak anomaly of Darwinian statistics. Unfortunately they will also likely assume that a snickers wrapper will do the job of a prophylactic and consequently there will only be more of these nutters in the future.

[PrintDriver]

I guess my point is that some urban myths may be based on some small amount of fact along the way (most of them are actually). Poisons do leach out of some plastic wraps. Some little girl was missing then was found (the missing letter is still circulating). A needle was found on a gas pump or a movie seat or somewhere that was just as alarming but only in one instance.

We'll put it in D-Frag's Conspiracy Theory thread that if enough people cry 'Wolf!' enough times, no one will listen when the 'real thing' hits the emails. Whatever that may be. LOL! <sorta lol... could happen>

[carter the artist]

the heating of plastics, may be toxic (even the John Hopkins did agree with that a bit, since they talked about plastic straws into hot liquids.) What really told me something was wrong was that the hoax included Freezing the water, or refrigerating the bottles over and over. I know I'm not the only one who does that and since our country is soo big on warning labels, I assumed it would be a bigger story. Sure enough it was a hoax.

[Tea]

You know Carter, I think I understand where you are coming from. I have a been burned and burned and burned with church/faith, relationships, and believing that I am contributing to the world. The middle one being the most devastating. In truth (isn't that ironic), we are here by ourselves aren't we? Our brains our so complex and our interactions with other people, events, places affect each one of us constantly that how can anything, ever be a truth? How do you begin to compare what you know and what I know to be truthful?

However, to really flip the tables here, I do believe there is some temporary truths. Until science proves otherwise, some things do hold true. Honestly, the world was flat as far as they knew it, but it did take some really big pieces of evidence to prove otherwise. Could I prove it? Absolutely not. Much of our population finds it so much easier to not question. So when people send those e-mails they believe the person who sent it to them is trustworthy and they don't need to check it out.

If you check out snopes, you contest it, you research, whatever, I believe that you are doing the right thing. You are questioning the world and you might even give a rip.

Carter, you are incredibly passionate about what you do and feel and think. Don't let the bozos get in your way.

And to answer your question. do you feel it's okay to feed false information as long as the ends become a positive outcome? Absolutely not.

[CamarotaDesign]

It's all about the law of attraction. Believe something to be true and it will be. :rolleyes:

Actually, to some extent I think the Law of attraction and books like "The Secret" and "Excuse Me Your Life Is Waiting" and other books on the subject have quite a bit of truth to them.

[captain spanky]

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/snopes.png

[Samakimoto Graphics]

I do the same thing Buda! :)

Ditto :D.

I've noticed a reduction of these email forwards since Snopes.com replies.

[SpugNothuson]

I blocked one of my friends from sending me emails as I was sick of getting this crap from her.

A few weeks later shes having a right go at me in the street for not sorting out some DIY problems that she had and ignoring all of her pleads for help. She'd sent them by email, you should have seen her face when I told her why I didn't see her emails. Not spoken to her in about a year now. Oops. :(

[PrintDriver]

Captain, that is another reasonI use the CIAC.org site. :D
None of them are infallible though.

[carter the artist]

I really missed this discussion...

I found this today (is there anything you cannot learn from Digg?)
It seems when Bill Nye, yes the Science Guy, tried to tell a bunch of people how the moon does not give off light of it's own, it merely reflects the Sun's light, that they really did not like him 'making things up.'

http://www.ocellated.com/2006/04/13/bill-nye-in-waco/

[Typically]

that link just says its redirecting me somewhere but just keeps loading the same page

[carter the artist]

that's strange, it works for me..

[Two-Toe Tom]

works for me too, here's an excerpt:


The Emmy-winning scientist angered a few audience members when he criticized literal interpretation of the biblical verse Genesis 1:16, which reads: “God made two great lights — the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.”
He pointed out that the sun, the “greater light,” is but one of countless stars and that the “lesser light” is the moon, which really is not a light at all, rather a reflector of light.
A number of audience members left the room at that point, visibly angered by what some perceived as irreverence.
“We believe in a God!” exclaimed one woman as she left the room with three young children.

[AlexNJ210]

i feel pretty sad at how i just lost a good portion of brain cells from reading that. Lordy Lordy Lordy. *Sigh*

[sierng]

http://www.ocellated.com/2006/04/13/bill-nye-in-waco/

some people are just dellusional.

[LeftBrain Artist]

I just got one of those chain mail things the other day. For the Leos, if you didn't put your astrological thang in the subject and forward it, its only 7 years bad luck. Sucks for me I guess. Sure enough, after not forwarding it, I flashed my lights at some guys with their lights off at night and it turns out they were gangsters who chased me down and shot me. I crawled out of my truck and was subsequently assaulted by the Bray Road Beast of Wisconsin. Bad times, bad times.

[carter the artist]

Why do people even still believe in Astrology? For one, pretty much all the 'modern' religions do not believe in, so it's not like a part of their faith. Besides Astrological constellations shift since the earth's tilt changes (hence why there are actually three north stars, but they all take turns for a LONG time.) And calendars were created by man. If some 'celestial' spirit existed that tied us all together even existed, why would it just happen to follow our modern calendar?

[seamas]

I just got one of those chain mail things the other day. For the Leos, if you didn't put your astrological thang in the subject and forward it, its only 7 years bad luck. Sucks for me I guess. Sure enough, after not forwarding it, I flashed my lights at some guys with their lights off at night and it turns out they were gangsters who chased me down and shot me. I crawled out of my truck and was subsequently assaulted by the Bray Road Beast of Wisconsin. Bad times, bad times.


The "flashing lights" myth recently came around where I work. I tried to dispell the myth (as I remember it going around at least ten years ago), but peop0le really wanted to believe it.
One person called the police to confirm - the police couldn't confirm or deny- so people took that as a confirmation.

Another person, who owns a private security company "proved" the rumour because he recieved a fax (then displayed the fax).



I used to do some work on the road with a friend who was literally terrified because of the "black-market organ/ body parts harvesting" myth that was circulating in the 90s. Since his brother got it from a "good source" it must be gospel (funny it never made the news, huh?).
My friend was also a frequent pot-smoker, so he'd get REAL paranoid all of a sudden when we'd be out. He'd all of a sudden make a move for the door, look at me like I'm crazy and tell me to "say good bye to your kidneys", because he figured that the people I was talking to must be organ harvesters.

[LeftBrain Artist]

Why do people even still believe in Astrology?

The stars don't lie. They were specifically programmed to tell only the truth.

Another person, who owns a private security company "proved" the rumour because he recieved a fax (then displayed the fax).

LOL. Well done! Expert sleuthmanship on his part.

Well, more bad luck for me, I woke up in a bathtub full of ice sans a kidney, and just received a letter containing a photograph of my toothbrush being used in a bizarre sexual act. In an effort to bring and end to my string of bad luck I'll post my horoscope for this week (from the onion).

Leo:
"A healthy body leads to a healthy mind. Continue starving yourself until your psychotic obsession to be thin is resolved."

There, now everyone else that views this will have to post theirs, or gypsies will come in the night and steal your children. Or, if you don't have children, your 50-odd cats will steal your breath while you sleep and feast on your rotting corpse over the next several months. Or, if you don't have cats...you will be chosen to replace Karl Rove as the president's advisor for the final, lame-duck year.

[urstwile]

I just got one of those chain mail things the other day. For the Leos, if you didn't put your astrological thang in the subject and forward it, its only 7 years bad luck. Sucks for me I guess. Sure enough, after not forwarding it, I flashed my lights at some guys with their lights off at night and it turns out they were gangsters who chased me down and shot me. I crawled out of my truck and was subsequently assaulted by the Bray Road Beast of Wisconsin. Bad times, bad times.
Quite simply...brilliant. :D