Bio-energetic products

[Samakimoto Graphics]

There's been a lot of interest in alternative medicine over here. One such area is something being called Bio-energetic products; like crystalls, bracelets, pendants and such that are claimed to be imbued with minerals and bio-electromanetic fields that have healing properties when worn.

The sellers claim that some illness come about as a result of "by imbalances in biological electric and magnetic fields" so these products correct this.

I saw an after-prime time-news segment about it on local TV...

Does anyone on here have experience in using such products? Are they genuine?

[SpugNothuson]

My Grandad wears a Copper Bracelet for medical reasons, I can't remember his exact reason for it though.

On the other hand he also arranges all of his garden gnomes to face the sun in the morning and then rotates them in the evening to watch the sunset.

I personally haven't tried any Bio-energetic products.

[Two-Toe Tom]

they seem like a scam to me. i doubt there are any peer-reviewed studies that would support any of their claims. Here is some critical opinions of vitalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitalism#Critical_opinions_of_vitalism) from wikipedia.

[Samakimoto Graphics]

Spug; I have heard that copper has some healing properties. I just don't understand it.

Thanks Tom.

The reason I asked is that I have been approached by several network marketers who swear by these products. I sounded it off on my GP the other day during a physical and he rubbished the concept.

One lady even had a crystal disk which she says she uses to "purify" water before cooking with it, and that the food keeps longer without refrigiration as a result! Where I come from you boil the water before you drink it... otherwise you drink bottled water from a specific bottling company and no other, I just find it all rediculous.

[Liquid Layers]

Spug; I have heard that copper has some healing properties. I just don't understand it.

Thanks Tom.

The reason I asked is that I have been approached by several network marketers who swear by these products. I sounded it off on my GP the other day during a physical and he rubbished the concept.

One lady even had a crystal disk which she says she uses to "purify" water before cooking with it, and that the food keeps longer without refrigiration as a result! Where I come from you boil the water before you drink it... otherwise you drink bottled water from a specific bottling company and no other, I just find it all rediculous.

I think we could pretty easily say that they are a big scam. I actually thought about making some of these, what a great idea. Find a cheap mineral with a nice shine to it. put it on a necklace, Call it the "SUPER PURPLE ANGEL TEAR" and market it to people's fears.

[budafist]

I saw Penn and Teller's Alternative Medicine episode of their Bullshit! series. It was great. They conducted this experiment to see if people just want to believe in this stuff.

At a mall, they told people that they could have a free trail of this new and fantastic facial. They put a bunch of garden snails to crawl across your face for about 10 minutes and you are supposed to feel revitalised and refreshed and have much more energy than before.

Just about everyone agreed that they were revitalised and refreshed and had much more energy than before. :rolleyes:

Just use your common sense guys!

[hewligan]

^^ Best line from that episode -

Penn: "We have this name for alternative medicine that works. We call it medicine."

[PrintDriver]

It all depends on how you look at it.
The disk to 'purify' water may be removing evil spirits so they don't enter her body. I'm not convinced magnet therapy doesn't work. I am convinced Chiropractic therapy does work. And many of the herbals as well. Medicinal uses of plants was one area I studied briefly in my first career. You sure as heck don't want to self-dose with some of that stuff. :eek:

As for crystals and stones and objects with special powers, there are certain mystic belief systems that put high importance on such things, though usually as representative of the gods' powers rather than an actual embodiment of them. But some people want to believe, and for some that may be enough.

[budafist]

I've never had chiro done to me and I'm not saying I would never ever, but not at this stage in my life. I would rather acupuncture over chiro. Maybe that's coz I'm Chinese.

I do have my reservations on some Chiros though. I used to work for a medical insurance place. My job was to read applications for treatment and approve them or if they were questionable, to refer the form to a specialist. Things that we had to look out for were Chiros seeking to treat babies and also Chiros that were treating people post-op as part of their rehabilitation. I have concerns that people that have had surgery to correct broken bones are seeing a Chiro the week after surgery. I also think that Chiros that play with babies is wrong.

[carter the artist]

oh goodness, please tell me you are kidding. If you believe this, then you'll believe Jesus is telling people which images to send to their printers.

[cornfed]

I have personally experienced the relief that a chiropractor can bring. I went a few months ago and he totally fixed me up. I don't have to keep going back or anything. My back was just out of whack and needed to be adjusted....kind of like hitting the reset button.

[PrintDriver]

I didn't say I believed in the mysticism of it. I've studied it though. And a lot of today's hooha is just plain bunk (based on some of those old belief systems - or not) made up to separate fools who believe what they read in the Enquirer from their money.

I have a skeletal system that heals better when 're-aligned' (ie a good 'snap') than it does if given only pain medication and muscle relaxants. Things slip out of joint (shoulders, lower back, knees) and need to be slipped back together. I can get it fixed quickly by a chiro or physiatrist and be pain free in a couple of days or I can wait in agony for weeks for the medication to help the muscles unspasm enough for the bones to relocate. Done both. While the drugs can be dreamy, I'd rather be fishing.

And I'm one of those people on whom those pressure wrist straps work for seasickness. Sure beats the sloggy feeling of dramamine. But why does it work? Dunno. Don't care. I'm fishing. :D

[budafist]

Me and my sis always got carsick. The wrist straps didn't do anything for us unfortunately. How tight are you supposed to have those things? I think my parents put them on extra tight because since they didn't work, they thought strapping them to the point of pain would make it work better. If that makes any sense. We would have dents in our wrists for a hour after taking the staps off.

[PrintDriver]

Just tight enough to be annoying. Not painful. Maybe it's the constant annoyance that keeps your mind off the wave motion. LOL! I only get seasick. Not carsick or airsick. And only seasick if the boat sits in the rollers. Trolling and moving is ok.

You kept your hand after all that?

[budafist]

Yup still have my hands. Thank goodness, I use my hands a lot in this job. I still get car sick. Especially in new cars. I think it is air conditioning in new cars that have a chemical yucky smell and makes me want to heave. Thank goodness I ride in a car only about twice a week (groceries) and thank goodness my bf drives a crappy old van with no air con!

[frankster]

My mum tried those car sickness bands with me as a kid too. They didn't work. Looking at the horizon does work for sea sickness, unless you are on a small boat and it's very rough.

On a similar note, stuff like this cracks me up! (http://www.badscience.net/?p=413)

[cornfed]

My four year old has gotten car sick since she was born. Once we handed her a dramamine and told her to chew it. Instead she stuck it up her nose. Then her nose started to bleed. She eventually sneezed the whole thing out. Then she vomited everywhere from being car sick. Yep, it was a long ride home from Arkansas.

[budafist]

Cornfed, that story is precious. My sister used to put things up her nose. I normally put things in my mouth :D

[Samakimoto Graphics]

I sent an email - with an attachemnt to Toms "Vitalism" wiki link- to my co-workers who have received leaflets of the products and attended induction meetings, I'm getting strange nonchalant goodmornings. One co-worker even sentall of us one of those forwards that talks about some people being "Garbage Trucks in your life", and how you should just "let them pass by" LOL.

I guess I wasn't being very helpful...

Here's part my email titled "Bio-energetic products? How?":

...it's important to research and find additional information on these types of things before plunging in at the behest of a network marketer.
Here is some information that may help make an informed opinion, it's varied in opinion, both for and against:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitalism#Critical_opinions_of_vitalism

[Drorain]

Walk up to someone and say "Naïve is written on the ceiling..."

Most people will actually look up.

As with anything, research can help, believing a product will work also helps enable the miracle cures they advertise. The idea of some of these cures are thousands of years old, ie. beware the snake oil salesman.

A mix of modern and holistic medicine might be a better approach, you can't deny the success of radiation/chemo on certain types of cancer...but perhaps acupunture may help relieve the symptoms caused by the chemo.

Also realize many cures might be covered up/shot down because of certain systems of beliefs, for instance the shot now available that eliminates almost all risk for cervical cancer in women. Many people say this will promote promiscuity in girls...I call BS. It's a cure for one form of cancer...you need to make it available to everyone.

[budafist]

A mix of modern and holistic medicine might be a better approach, you can't deny the success of radiation/chemo on certain types of cancer...but perhaps acupunture may help relieve the symptoms caused by the chemo.

That reminds me of my friend that had a cancer scare last year. Her bf was with her at the doctor and before it was even confirmed she had cancer, he took her to one side and told her she shouldn't go with chemo and that she should just look into alternative medicine. She got so upset with him. I mean, this is her life he was talking about. There is no second chance. You wear crystals and copper and burn some fancy oils for period pain, not with cancer. Lucky for him and her she didn't have cancer.

[CamarotaDesign]

In my opinion, the best "bio-energetic" type thing is a positive attitude and feeling good about yourself physically and mentally. If you don't have that, it doesn't matter what little wrist things you wear, imo.

Whatever it takes to get you to that level of positive thinking is what you should do. For me it's eating healthy, exercising, laughing a lot, doing fulfilling and creative things like playing piano, gardening (thats right! I garden!) cooking elaborate meals, staying on top of my chores/work (gdf calendar, oh shit!!!!) whatever it takes.... a little lovin' helps too :)

[carter the artist]

ha ha.

Cam gardens.

[urstwile]

What kinda stuff do you grow, Cam? I've been thinking of starting a garden in back of my apartment (we just moved). It gets great sun and I'd have to do it in planter boxes, but I was thinking of trying to start something.

[Samakimoto Graphics]

In my opinion, the best "bio-energetic" type thing is a positive attitude and feeling good about yourself physically and mentally. If you don't have that, it doesn't matter what little wrist things you wear, imo.

Whatever it takes to get you to that level of positive thinking is what you should do. For me it's eating healthy, exercising, laughing a lot, doing fulfilling and creative things

I couldn't have said it better. Positive thinking is the best medicine, it's got me through many dips as far as health goes.

I was saying that to my mom, who's been having some physio to help with some compacted nerves. She sometimes goes into a low mood and I have to do or tell her something that gets her moving, then she forgets the discomfort and in a few minutes she's a totally different person!

I have a very high pain threshhold that I can live with an injury so long(that could cause anyone else excrutiating pain) often until I need to have surgery or can barely walk. One time I went to hospital with a swollen middle finger (right hand) that had shown little sign of subsiding; she was in shock that I had continued working for two weeks and immediately odered me to be admitted for surgery-turns out it had become badly infected, yet I felt very little pain! I suppose it was because I'd just started a new job which was exciting and was pretty busy doing what I enjoyed.

[CamarotaDesign]

Yeah, I garden, You got a problem carter? I'll peg you with mah tomahto! heh heh. I saw a miller commercial for "mannisms" and rules of men. And one of them is that a man is allowed to have a garden, only if he calls it "farming" so, I guess, I farm. :)

Urst - Right now we have a pretty big strawberry patch, a bunch of different varieties of tomatoes, green beans, zucchini, cucumbers, summer squash, anaheim peppers and jalapenos. mmm baby! Oh, if you are going to grow in planter boxes, doing something like the earthbox (http://www.earthbox.com/) is totally the best way to go. They keep your plants from getting root rot. Most veggies you can't do in planters because of that, it will make the fruit go bad before its ready to harvest. The earthbox basically just allows water to drain to the bottom and away from the dirt so that the dirt doesnt get too moist.

Sama - That is interesting, I also really have a high pain threshhold, I also can take a lot of pain before giving out. I recently had shin splints and still was able to run for 6 miles at a time. It only got really bad when I jumped too much playing basketball. So it's almost totally gone now, and that is nice, but I never actually rested it, pretty cool that its gone away. I also heal from cuts and bruises pretty fast. i used to heal even faster when I was younger, but we all did back then. And yes, positive thinking is the best thing you can do. It changes everything. Everything about you changes, you become happier, healthier, more attractive, you've got to force yourself to be positive. Read books on it everyday, thats what I've learned. You have to devote at least a half hour to learning about positive thinking to keep it together. We are inherently programmed to be negative because it's negativity that gives us survival instincts, and before we all lived in homes and drove cars and went to work everyday, we were busy worrying if we were about to get eaten by a sabertooth tiger so our negative instincts kept us alive. Anyways the funny thing about positive thinking, it really works.

[carter the artist]

oh you farm, that's okay.

[morea]

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c343/gdfmorea/silly%20things/rofl.gif

good one

[urstwile]

Urst - Right now we have a pretty big strawberry patch, a bunch of different varieties of tomatoes, green beans, zucchini, cucumbers, summer squash, anaheim peppers and jalapenos. mmm baby! Oh, if you are going to grow in planter boxes, doing something like the earthbox (http://www.earthbox.com/) is totally the best way to go. They keep your plants from getting root rot. Most veggies you can't do in planters because of that, it will make the fruit go bad before its ready to harvest. The earthbox basically just allows water to drain to the bottom and away from the dirt so that the dirt doesnt get too moist.

Good to know! I requested an earthbox catalog. :)

[CamarotaDesign]

Cool Urst - They are kinda expensive, and actually pretty simple to construct yourself, so if the money doesnt fit your budget, I'm sure there are sites online that show you how to construct your own. The main thing is to have a chamber at the bottom of the planter box that the water drains through the dirt into.

[frankster]

I'm confused. When my mum grows anything in pots or tubs there are always holes in the bottom and she puts "crocks" over the holes before she puts the soil in. Crocks are broken bits of pottery, china or any bits of old broken cups/bowls/whatever that cover the hole so that soil doesn't come out, but the water does drain out. Do american planters not have holes in the bottom? :confused: If anyone broke a mug or dish or anything in our house then the broken pieces always went in the "crock box" in the garage for use later.

[CamarotaDesign]

Same Thing frank, The bits of broken pottery, or pebbles is sorta like the chamber below the dirt in an earthbox. Earthboxes don't have any holes to drain though. What the have is like a screen about 4 inches off the bottom that all the dirt sits on top of, and then the water drains through that screen and sits at the bottom of the box. Then there is a ventilation tube that lets the water evaporate out of as well. pretty simple really.

[urstwile]

Seems like I could rig up a similar thing with a regular planter box, some screen and maybe drilling a hole in the bottom of the planter box, no?

[CamarotaDesign]

Yeah, thats what I would do since I've seen what they are and it doesnt take either a genius or skilled craftsman to make one. The thing is though, you don't put a hole in the bottom for the water to drain. You put a plastic tube that stricks into it and acts as like a chimney from the water chamber. it's pretty simple.. oh hell, here I just made you a diagram, its really simple :)

[urstwile]

Aww, that's sweet, Cam. Do you figure I could do the same thing with that Squarefoot Gardening thing (I'm not all that handy, but I know people who are). Then again, maybe the Squarefoot Gardening book has recomendations for gardening.

On an unrelated but related note, do you know if collard greens are hard to grow?

Has this thread been hijacked or what? :D

[Samakimoto Graphics]

Has this thread been hijacked or what? :D

Nom' this is still inline with the concept of bio-energetic therapy...I'm just wondering what other bio-energetic therapies (besides "farming") there are.

I'm a little lucky not to have to "farm" in a box, I have several square metres planted with onions, spinach, trees, bananas, maize, etc...all organically manured.

[PrintDriver]

I have 2 types of 'farms'.
Well 3, if you divide the 'pretty farms' into poisonous and non-poisonous.
The food 'farm' is on it's second planting of beans <last weekend was freezer weekend on the first planting>
and the tomatoes are coming on nicely. <sauce sauce sauce>
Manured here too. I don't even kill the grubs in the lawn. Crows love em.

[Kool]

I have an awesome source for nice organic fertilizer. My brother owns a stable. It's good stuff, basically just sawdust & horse poop & pee. He has a massive pile of this stuff so you get the stuff that's been baking down at the bottom of the pile for 6 months or a year. It's pretty much turned into dirt by then but it's really nutritious dirt. :)

[Liquid Layers]

I have 2 types of 'farms'.
Well 3, if you divide the 'pretty farms' into poisonous and non-poisonous.
The food 'farm' is on it's second planting of beans <last weekend was freezer weekend on the first planting>
and the tomatoes are coming on nicely. <sauce sauce sauce>
Manured here too. I don't even kill the grubs in the lawn. Crows love em.

What do you grow that is considered poisonous?

[CamarotaDesign]

I have an awesome source for nice organic fertilizer. My brother owns a stable. It's good stuff, basically just sawdust & horse poop & pee. He has a massive pile of this stuff so you get the stuff that's been baking down at the bottom of the pile for 6 months or a year. It's pretty much turned into dirt by then but it's really nutritious dirt. :)

We used to have a chicken coop when I lived at home out in the country. And that stuff, let me tell you that was like steroids for plants. We put that in our garden and everything went crazy.

[urstwile]

This thread is definitely making my thumb itch to be green. :)

[CamarotaDesign]

speaking of being green, Urst, I may be buying a 1984 mercedes 300D turbo diesel and converting it to run on vegi oil. I've got a seller for one near me, and I'm checking it out Monday when they get back from a trip, in the meantime I'm pouring over craigslist ads and everywhere else to fund a suitable mercedes for the conversion. The best years are between 80-84 turbo Diesels. 300D's are the best.... look the coolest too.

[Samakimoto Graphics]

Speaking of organic manure...

I often barter things I grow or the maize stalks after the harvest for maure from neighbours. Once I got goat manure from a boys' home nearby and after spreading it I got an unexpected but welcome crop of a wild indegineous vegetable called "Terere" all over. Most communities over here regard it as a weed, but it has very high contents of Vitamin A. They haven't sprouting a year down the line.

[Samakimoto Graphics]

speaking of being green, Urst, I may be buying a 1984 mercedes 300D turbo diesel and converting it to run on vegi oil. I've got a seller for one near me, and I'm checking it out Monday when they get back from a trip, in the meantime I'm pouring over craigslist ads and everywhere else to fund a suitable mercedes for the conversion. The best years are between 80-84 turbo Diesels. 300D's are the best.... look the coolest too.

Yep very goodlooking. I recently read an article in one of the local dailies about how most young and upwardly mobile folks over here are prefering to seek their dream cars in junk yards, rather than buy brand new...So, while the rest of us are rushing over to Japan to import (used) low consumption sedans, these guys prefer to spend on refarbrishing old beemers, mercs and range rovers. Nice to hear you take it a step further with green fuel.

Just curious. How sustainable both cost-wise and really is the vegie oil runing? Are there filling stations already supplying this?

[PrintDriver]

Poisonous plants? Things you wouldn't want to put in your salad... :D
Depends on what part you eat and how much... Digitalis, Castor, Brugmansia, a few other nightshade family members night quite so deadly, 'sweet peas', may apples (not poisonous when completely ripe), Monks Hood (Aconitum), Doll's Eyes (Actaea alba)...

Chicken tea is the best fertilizer. Doesn't burn plants as much as throwing it on straight up. Stinks though. Can't have neighbors nearby. LOL. Rotted cow manure is as far as I dare go where I live now. Chickens aren't allowed by neighborhood ordinance.

Btw, have you priced veggie oil by the gallon compared to diesel?

[Samakimoto Graphics]

PD did you say you were a herbalist in your previous career?

I love home remedies and herbal cures for different things. I'm currently taking my favourite sore throat cure- Ginger root juice sweetened with honey, for detox I sprinkle on some stinging nettle ("elephants ears" in my native tongue). I'd like to grow stinging nettle someday...

I found a site with some fantastic home remedies, they've worked in the past few years when taken continuously through the illness and in large quantities.

see:http://www.grannymed.com/

[CamarotaDesign]

PD and Sama - Actually, this would be recycled restaurant grease. Vegi oil is ridiculously more expensive than regular diesel per gallon...of course. But If you get your oil from restuarants, and filter it good, it works perfectly.

As far as sustainability, well I don't think vegi oil would work if everyone was driving it. Theres just not enough to go around, the real sustainability will be in electric cars which after being shutdown by the auto industry in the late 90's are startning to make a huge comeback, and with cars that will be superior to gasoline. Talkin like, electric cars that will go 400 miles on a single charge, charge in 10 minutes, and go 0-60mph in 4 seconds. I was watching a video on a guy that has a converted old muscle car, converted to electric that goes 0-60 in 3 seconds, and this dude smokes any car in a drag race. Pretty awesome stuff really, electric vehicles is where its at.

here's some links:

http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/

http://www.teslamotors.com

http://www.zapworld.com/ZAPWorld.aspx?id=4560

[carter the artist]

Speaking of green, i just remembered I really should do my laundry today.

[PrintDriver]

I'm not an herbalist. I studied plant taxonomy and medicinal uses were an offshoot of that. Materia Medica and the Grieve books are my favorite sources. BUT, you gotta be real careful with herbals. I would never in a million years instruct anyone to take anything. I quick scanned the site you mentioned. I'll check it out better later.

At the grocery store we used to throw our donut frying grease in big barrels down in the meat department. Always wondered what they did with that stuff. Now if they could just have found a better method of cleaning the grease traps...OMG, that stink alone should be able to power something. They always cleaned those during the overnight shift and it always seemed to land on my one night to do the overnight bake, no matter what night I drew.

[Liquid Layers]

I'm not an herbalist. I studied plant taxonomy and medicinal uses were an offshoot of that. Materia Medica and the Grieve books are my favorite sources. BUT, you gotta be real careful with herbals. I would never in a million years instruct anyone to take anything. I quick scanned the site you mentioned. I'll check it out better later.



Isn't nightshade a component of Ayahuasca?

By the way. This might not be your thing, but since you study medicinal uses of herbs, I've gotta ask if you've studied anything about cannabis.