Newbie questions on file formats

[ekallevig]

I'm working on the first project I'll actually be sending to a printer and I just have some basic questions about the files I will send to the printer.

I'm making a business card in Illustrator and I'm using a template I downloaded that is .25 inches longer (in width and height) than the final card will be, with cut line guides at the actual length/width of the card.

First, is it ok to be doing this entirely in Illustrator, or should I be using inDesign? Does it matter?

Second, should I be sending the printer a pdf (I'm assuming pdf is the de facto standard these days?) with the designed card .25 inches longer and just assume that they will cut in .25 inches on each side?

Third, should I send a pdf with just one business card on it or would I send an 8.5x11 page with multiple copies of the card on it?

Again these are very newbie questions but having never done it I wanted to be sure I wasn't making stupid mistakes. Thanks!

[vxhorusxv]

Ekallevig -

The only hard and fast rule about anything is that you should not make assumptions =).

You'll hear all the print guys & gals on here saying "CALL YOUR SB! TALK TO THE PRE-PRESS OPERATOR!" And they are 100% correct. As for your concerns about handing the file in ILLY, I have done business cards in Illustrator before and not had a problem with my SB, because I talked to them about how I set up the file and then provided them with a comp that I had produced on my laser printer.

Dielines [where the printer would be cutting, also called the document's trim size] should be on a separate layer in whatever kind of file you are working on.

As to your third question, you should DEFINITELY speak to your printer about that. The printer will probably be running press sheets and not 8.5x11 paper, but you won't know that until you ask. Anytime I've ever run cards, I have provided the document with just one card and the printer has then "run them up".

Good luck!

V

[tZ]

Second, should I be sending the printer a pdf (I'm assuming pdf is the de facto standard these days?) with the designed card .25 inches longer and just assume that they will cut in .25 inches on each side?


That 1/4 inch is called a bleed. You only need it if you have things bleeding off the side. If nothing on the card touches the edge then it would be cheaper to print w/o the bleed becuase cutting a bleed makes more work. The things that tells the printer where to cut are called crop marks. If you have a bleed then you need to set crop marks into the bleed area to designate the cut. If your doing this in indesign then it can be done automatically for you but, in illustrator you need to set up the bleed and crops manually. In any instance you must have crop marks because they tell the printer where to cut.

[ekallevig]

Thanks for the reply, it helped. After a little more research I think what I needed to know is that I just need to talk to my printer and find out what "bleed size" (the document's actual size) and what "trim size" (where their printers will cut the paper) they would prefer. Then I think I will just set guides (trim and safety) in a separate layer in my file to know how to place content.

Will printers generally even look at guides in these files?
If so how will they know which guides are for what (ie. trim guides, safety guides)?
And if I send a PDF, how can they even see the guides?

[tZ]

All you need are crop marks. The crop marks should be registration black not the color black or they will show up on K plate or if this is a spot job then it will 4 colors because the file will assume the black is a cmyk color.

[vxhorusxv]

Guides are, generally, not a good way to indicate folds, cuts, trim, bleed, or other vital information about a file. Most likely, the easiest way to do this is to save your Illustrator doc and place it into an InDesign mechanical because there is a separate space in the document setup for bleeds - if you need one, which you may not as tZ pointed out.

The bonus of using InDesign also is that you can include a slug which is an area of unprinted information/notes for use internally [at an agency or some such] and information for the printer. Here you can include notes such as "fold at dotted line" or "Dieline included on separate layer". If you have special folding or cutting instructions, I suggest sending a physical comp, just to be sure that you and your SB are on the same page [no pun intended =)]

[tZ]

Heres a brief example of what you should do:

Say your business card is 3 x 2.5 without bleed but, you need a bleed. Then you will add the bleed and end up with:

(.25 x 2) + 3 = 3.5
(.25 x 2) + 2.5 = 3.0

So now your active document area is 3.5 x 3. So then you take guide lines and go in .25 on each side of the image. Those guide lines will designate the crop area. However, in order to tell the printer were to cut you need to add crop marks.

To create crop marks you make a line that is fairly thin and about .25 in long. From there You set those lines around the document outside the bleed. Once you have them set up you go back and move them so they overlap only the bleed area by just a tad. That would be how you set up crop marks manually. I'm sure there is something online that could tell you better then I can explain without visuals.

On last note: If you didn't design with the bleed but, need it when you add it you need to drag all the art that touches edge to the bleed end. So if you have a box that is red that touches the left edge then you need to extend it into the bleed area. Otherwise there would be not point of having a bleed in the first place.

[Ned]

For creating a 1-up business card PDF, I would keep it in Illustrator, and make your own crop marks exact by using a copy of your outer rectangle path (not the artwork size with bleed, but the trimmed card size without bleed), turn it into a guide (View=>Guides=>Make Guides), then turn that rectangular guide into crop marks (on a seperate layer) using Filter=>Crop Marks=>Make (or whatever). Then when you export your PDF, remember to remove the Printer Trim Marks, or you will have double crop marks.

[Tikamars]

First, is it ok to be doing this entirely in Illustrator, or should I be using inDesign? Does it matter?

Working in a printing company I will tell you how I prefer files to come to me: Creating it in ILL is fine, as long as you either outline your fonts, or include them in a package. Outlining them is best however. I take the IA file and place in ID anyhow.

Second, should I be sending the printer a pdf (I'm assuming pdf is the de facto standard these days?) with the designed card .25 inches longer and just assume that they will cut in .25 inches on each side?

I would send a PDF for composite only, and yes, call your provider to ensure you and the printer are on the same page.

Third, should I send a pdf with just one business card on it or would I send an 8.5x11 page with multiple copies of the card on it?

I always prefer to get one up versions. This way I place in templates I have created to fit my standards and those of my company.

Again these are very newbie questions but having never done it I wanted to be sure I wasn't making stupid mistakes. Thanks![/quote]

[PrintDriver]

^That's how you prefer it.
Other vendors may vary considerably in file format.

For example, why on earth would you put your finished Illy doc into InD? This is an extra step and requires sending both the InD doc and the Illy link. Seems rather redundant.

[Broacher]

PD, I can tell you from experience that ID creates much more reliable press-ready PDFs than AI. There's also more PDF options available--ink management especially. And if you are handing off a PDF-x, why would you need to include the source files? I never do. If everything else is done correctly, that itself is redundant.

[PrintDriver]

Ack. Sorry Broacher. It's my upbringing. I should know better when the question is strictly 4-color. We, and our sub-vendors don't like to accept pdf for output. Don't care how many x's and numbers. Native only.
It's a large format thing I guess.
But you do include the statement "if everything else is done correctly". ;)That includes output profiles and colors.
<and I do know that sometimes putting the Natives into InD is one countermeasure with ornery rips, but that's after color correction and profile application - nothing to do with business cards really.>

[Alan G]

It's a large format thing I guess.

That could be the start of a great tagline, PD: "It's a large format thing. You wouldn't understand." Could be a good bumper-sticker, too. :D

[PrintDriver]

Think Jeep would mind?
:D

[Broacher]

That could be the start of a great tagline, PD: "It's a large format thing. You wouldn't understand." Could be a good bumper-sticker, too. :D

I want a t-shirt.

(Maybe "It's a large format thing, but I could teach you how to handle it.")

[Moe]

Some printers (like the one I work at) only accept hi-res PDF files. We like the completed package. We only request the native (Illy) file if there is a problem with the clients hi-res PDF.

Best to ask your printer what they accept!