Anamorphic Illusions, anyone got any advice?

[D-Frag]

Im working on one hell of a project, which involves the entrance into a martial arts studio. I have completed the "perspective distortion" for the back walls and reception desk. However, we want the illusion of "bricks" laying on the floor in front of the reception desk, so that when you walk in from 20' back the bricks will look like they are real.

Like I have said, I have the entire "illusion" done, accept for these "satelite" bricks that will be on the concrete in front of the reception desk. Julian Beevers work comes to mind when trying to accomplish this, along with Da Vinci, but I can't find any good tutorials on perspectives, let alone anamorphic perspectives, does anyone have any good tutorials to depth perception, perspectives, or how to make 2d stuff appear 3d?

[CkretAjint]

My best guess would be to print your standard brick pattern on a transparancy, shoot that on the ground, take a photo of it, and then digitally apply your brick texture to the boxes.

Make sense? Does seem like the long way around though.

[Craig B]

Hmm, the only things that comes to mind is doing a reverse of the "distorted" crop trick in Photoshop. Kind of like so. Does this make sense?

http://i18.tinypic.com/53sx07b.gif

[Mynock]

How I would do it would. Take a photo of where you want the prespective to be, but make sure you can see the corners and the edges so you can get a good perspective. Once you have it in Photoshop, set it up how you want it to appear roughly. Then you can take that image of just your artwork and then use the prespective tool/distort to the size you need it finished at. This will provide your template for you final design. That make any sense?

[D-Frag]

see, i haven't messed with any of the photoshop distortion stuff, apparently its got a pretty good way to do perspectives.

this is the front wall and we want bricks to be on the ground in front of it.

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/108/receptionwallbreakout2jj2.jpg

[Two-Toe Tom]

is this gonna be painted directly or does it have to be done on computer? maybe you could use a projector to project the image to where you want it from where it's supposed to be viewed, so you'll get an idea of how it should go on.

[Craig B]

I'm telling you photoshop it into a picture of where you want the bricks to be and then use the distort crop.

[Two-Toe Tom]

this is adding to craig's suggestion, i would draw temporary gridmarks on the floor, so when you distort it, you just have to make sure the gridmarks are perfectly verticle and horizontal and evenly spaced. also, when you take the picture, tkae it from far away as possible and zoom in, so you don't get as much lens distortion.

edit: ignore that last part, take it from where you want it to look right.

[D-Frag]

Tom: it will not be painted, it will be vinyl and cut to shape.

thanks for all the suggestions so far, im trying this multiple different ways trying to get it right. to give you an example, this is what the entrance looks like when you walk in, the image i posted above is the curved wall coming off the front desk.

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/8697/frontentrancehp0.jpg

so should i do my perspective pseudo bricks in illy over the top of this image, then bring them into photoshop and do the texturing? im thinking this might be the simplest way.

[CkretAjint]

wow... oddly enough it sound like my idea at the top might be the way to go about doing it. LOL

[Two-Toe Tom]

oh, and make sure you take the picture from where you want it to look right.

[D-Frag]

ok, does this look like im on the right track?

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/8152/frontentrance2cm9.jpg

[Two-Toe Tom]

it depends on where you want the illusion, just remember it'll look distorted from any other angle/distance. from that vantage point, i don't think it has the right perspective (the bricks don't look rectangular).

[Mynock]

That will be real nice since it's not finished and you can do what you want right now. I would set up a grid with tape on the floor that you can use to orient things. Like a line of painters tape every foot or a measurement that makes sense. Like so. It will make your life easier.
http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/2815/gridgr0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[CkretAjint]

Don't forget shadows on the ground!!!!

Maybe even a nice DEEP, far off shadow so that it lookks like the brick is still flying through the air...

[D-Frag]

yeah i got that part down already. this photo is from the exact location of the front door.

here is the kicker though, so say I design these bricks in illy like they are right now. I cant just take those into photoshop how they are can I? it would seem to me that the bricks would have to be waaaaay longer then the 2 dimensional piece i see on my screen. for instance.... from of Julian's pieces...

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/7469/globevd0.jpg

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/4343/globewrongviewsh8.jpg

[Two-Toe Tom]

that globe is pretty huge. your bricks shouldn't be a problem unless you want the illusion to take place from far away, but in that case, you could just paint part of it on the wall.

[D-Frag]

true that tom, that globe on the sidewalk is 40' feet, so im working at roughtly half that scale (total viewable distance) im trying to wrap my head around the mathematics part of it but its just boggling me. (like what physical size should my bricks be at)

[CkretAjint]

Less math method:

Correct. Hence why I said draw the basic brick shape on a transpancy (as you want to see it from the door). Go to the place/studio and cast it on the ground from the angle you want it at. Then climb up a ladder and take an image from the top of it (will be WAY long and distorted). Go home and PS your brick image on that shape, add your filters and shadows, send to printer and stick on the floor. BAM!!! all done...

Lots of leg work on this method, but I am affraid you are going to have to have that to get it to look remotely correct.

Also if you can PS the tile in the same angle from there, it will make printing it with shadows easier. Of course the studio will have to be more complete at that point in time....

[Two-Toe Tom]

just take the pic from where you want the illusion to take place and draw how you want it to look over that pic. you should know where the edges of the bricks need to be from just looking at that pic. i.e. for julians pic, you can tell how far the globe has to go from looking at the first pic.

[CkretAjint]

just take the pic from where you want the illusion to take place and draw how you want it to look over that pic. you should know where the edges of the bricks need to be from just looking at that pic. i.e. for julians pic, you can tell how far the globe has to go from looking at the first pic.

True. I guess I am just an over achiever. ;)

[Two-Toe Tom]

that's just to get a rough idea of where things need to go, to get the final image, i'd do what craig suggested and add gridlines to make sure its right.

[vtwin_gary]

if your floor was grid-ed then,
add your bricks you'll have a better idea of how big they will have to be printed.

if i'm understanding this right the area from the door to the wall is 20'
the it looks like the bricks are gonna be about 8' long

also when you grid the floor be sure your lines run parallel to the walls so you can see the distortion the your eye makes

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/1504/brickswi5.jpg

[Rizz]

Instead of doing the illusion on the floor, why not use the front of the desk?

Like, fake the floor on the lower part of the desk and part of the wall. It will make the desk look farther away, but may simplify the perspective.

-Rizz

[Drazan]

Anamophic and trompe l'oeil is all about perspective and forshortening.

In the diagram below, I have three people looking at a brick on the floor. Now if you want the brick to just appear as if it was sitting on the floor then the edges of the brick would be your projection plane. The projection plane is where the eye will be tricked into focusing on your object.

Notice from the eyes I have blacklines, but as they pass through the projection plane they turn red. the area on the floor is the size of the image needed to make the perspective work. The closer you make the projection plane the more 3d-ish the image is. Thusly depending on the object.

You can also see how the perspective and length of drawing is needed from how the person is positioned relative to the object.

It is all relative as well. If you wanted the image to be taller, then you would need a more stretched out image.

The grid method represents the forshortening perspective method of drawing. Just like we did in art class, transfer the opjects shape from one square to it's corresponding rectangle. This can be done using an actual photo, a drawing, etc.

The formula is valid, though it was taken from this page (http://www.jmckell.com/3Dcues.html) which does 3d digital rendering.

http://jadeadragon.com/shared/gd/anamorphic.jpg

A few ways to cheat. The easiest method is a transparency and projector method, only if you get the image right on the transparency ;)

Another method is have two people and a piece of string map out your grid. Keeping in mind where the projection plane is. I've taken a piece of paper and actually pierced it with a needle - threaded through the string and taped one end to a ladder and the other to the floor.

A little trickery is involved and a bit of trial by error. Also I'd avise to actually lay a piece of paper on the floor and draw your rough outlines. Even then you should see it "pop" off the floor if you've got it right.

Good luck, you always seem to have the coolest projects.

Jade

edit: if you are a true math geek on perspective, check this out (http://www.math.utah.edu/%7Etreiberg/Perspect/Perspect.htm) - half way down approx.

[Ovaltine]

Could you just tape off a perfect (squares) grid on the physical floor say each block is a foot by a foot.

Then photograph the physical room from the point at which you want your viewer to see the bricks properly.

Add the bricks in PS or whatever.

Then transform the whole pict until the grid is perfectly "square" again. This should be the way the bricks need to be printed to look correct.

This seems to be the simplest solution.

[captain spanky]

just glue some bricks to the floor. it will be easier in the long run.

[Samakimoto Graphics]

The images of the soccer team crests on the soccer pitch come to mind. I remeber marveling at that the first time I saw it.

I recall a Japanese artist's show on a Japanese technology docu that used to air in the 80s over here... - "Japanese Video Topics" was the name of the docu. I loved that docu.

Any Japanese members on the GDF? :)

[Logo-Mechanix]

I went through the thread kind of quick due to time constraints so forgive if the suggestion was already made but why not just go to the place with some bricks, put them down on the floor, step back to where you want them to be seen from and snap a few pics to trace over in Illustrator.

[D-Frag]

thank you for all the awesome suggestions everyone, and thanks Drazan for the equations and such, I will have to dedicate some serious time to figuring this one out. ill keep you guys updated on how the project turns out