What % do you ask upfront?

[bejamshi]

Hi,

I ask 50% for print design work,
100% for printing

and for web
50% upfront

Would it make sense to charge 75% for web upfront?

[DesignVHL]

I have the printing company bill the client directly if i am dealing with their printing....but I do usually ask for 50% up front no matter if it is for print or web....if they want it done quickly, I try to have them use paypal...

[SurfPark]

Services: 33% Up front, 33% after proof approval, 34% finished.

Printing: 100% up front

This is usually the case for vendor services. Some vendors give the option to bill the client themselves. Ask your client what they'd like to do.

[thecat@]

Would it make sense to charge 75% for web upfront?

Why are you asking?

For web jobs, it all depended on how large the job was. Small jobs = 50 / 50 or in thirds. Large jobs were broken down by phases, with payments 50 / 50 or in thirds.

(now that I'm not designing anymore, it's a real pain to remember to change everything to past tense, so if I forget, please don't yell too loud :-)

[SpugNothuson]

I don't know whether I'm the oddity or it just works differently here in the UK but I ask for 0% upfront.

The client pays me when the job is complete. By complete I mean the printed material has been delivered or the web site is uploaded and fully functional.

I have never had issue with a non paying client. There will be a time when it happens I'm sure but as they sign their life (and cash) away on the dotted line they're legally obliged to pay and I will chase them down!

[thecat@]

I don't know whether I'm the oddity or it just works differently here in the UK but I ask for 0% upfront.

The client pays me when the job is complete. By complete I mean the printed material has been delivered or the web site is uploaded and fully functional.

I have never had issue with a non paying client. There will be a time when it happens I'm sure but as they sign their life (and cash) away on the dotted line they're legally obliged to pay and I will chase them down!

You may be an oddity (or work in a small community?) On this UK forum (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=42057), they are insisting money comes into it in the beginning.

And believe me, the first time you have to chase down a client you'll wish you had stops in place. Chasing takes time away from designing. It's also highly stressful so gets in the way of being creative (unless you design better in a blue funk).

Also, in these days of working via the Internet, it's important to get a deposit, then the rest before moving to the next stage.

Btw - the reason I asked about working in a small community is because that's how I started. Only, it was a small country. Difficult to stiff someone without the whole community knowing about it hours after it happened (think 'small town gossip'). Yes, we quickly knew who they were so knew who to avoid. In larger cities, it's impossible to be able to have that kind of backup.

[SpugNothuson]

I'll have a serious think this weekend about changing the way I work.

Almost all of my clients so far are either locals or I have been recommended by them from another client. There would be some "small town gossip" if a non payer turned up.

I do design better when I'm under pressure but I'm one of the lucky few that doesn't suffer from stress. My life is black & white, my brain doesn't deal with grey areas to get stressed about. It either happens or it doesn't, deal with the consequences either way. :)

[thecat@]

I do design better when I'm under pressure but I'm one of the lucky few that doesn't suffer from stress. My life is black & white, my brain doesn't deal with grey areas to get stressed about. It either happens or it doesn't, deal with the consequences either way. :)

Lucky man! I should be so lucky (my life covers the full spectrum of emotions). But my stepson had the same qualities you have. They served him well first as a trauma nurse, then when he became a doctor.

I'm envious!

Btw - when I worked in the UK as a designer back in 2000 or so, I didn't request a percentage up either. But, it was again, a small community.

[bejamshi]

Hi Cat, so nice to see you around here.
Yes it is a large project, and I already got 50% upfront. I was wondering for any web project to have a deadline for clinet made changes (that is if changes are unlimited until the deadline)?

Also maybe it is also good to change my policies to something like..I get paid the rest of the money 50% and then I will upload your site to the servers.

How is that?

[bejamshi]

I do design better when I'm under pressure but I'm one of the lucky few that doesn't suffer from stress. My life is black & white, my brain doesn't deal with grey areas to get stressed about. It either happens or it doesn't, deal with the consequences either way. :)

But your forgetfull, :D
Where is my birthday present you promise.:rolleyes:

[thecat@]

Hi Cat, so nice to see you around here.
Nice to see you too :-)

Yes it is a large project, and I already got 50% upfront. I was wondering for any web project to have a deadline for clinet made changes (that is if changes are unlimited until the deadline)?
Ok, if I understand you correctly (from your original question) ... that you are asking about an increase of an upfront deposit due to unlimited client changes?

Or are you asking about a set deadline for unlimited client made changes?

I would not encourage 'unlimited' changes (the thought makes me shudder!). In your contract set out how many changes the client will be paying for. Any other changes will incure additional costs. Also, set out exactly what will happen if there is a change of direction in the project (anything that diverts from the agreed project proposal).

On a deadline for client made changes, this all depends on their project launch and what you agreed in the contract. And the fact that you have a life and cannot work like a fiend due to their lack of planning :-D

Also maybe it is also good to change my policies to something like..I get paid the rest of the money 50% and then I will upload your site to the servers.
I'm not sure what your policies hold. But I generally go for all monies upfront before passing over final work.

But, when working on a long project and from a client's home ground it's a bit more complicated because there is no physical handover. Just make sure your contract is solid. And most of all, trust your guts before agreeing to work with them.

[bejamshi]

Thanks Cat.
I guess i got two excited and asked two questions at once. I should pay more attention on how i compose my questions. It must be all that carrot juice.

Ok
For this instance I am outsourcing the web work, so my web guy can do unlimited changes for the money I am paying him, he has no problem, if it was me then that would be a totally different story. So for now I have the end of this week for any revisions (minor that is) after this deadline I charge the client an hourly fee, paid for the first 15 min and incremants of 15 min thereafter.

My contract is pretty solid at this state for both print and web, but somehow since I am outsourcing I guess that is why I posted the deposit of 50%+ at begining.

So good to have you around, you are well experienced and knowledgeable.

[morea]

it sounds like you are outsourcing to someone who doesn't appreciate the value of their time.

Regardless, it will STILL involve your time if the client decides to make unlimited revisions, as you will have to relay all of the changes to the person you outsourced to. I wouldn't recommend offering "unlimited revisions" under ANY circumstances... it almost always comes back to bite you in the end.

[bejamshi]

Yes Morea, I understand that and I sure do not want to take advantage of this guy either. I will have limited revisions on my contract for the next client.

This current client has been good, i tell him to have all his changes to me once a week. I also do a lot of the admin work and it sure takes a lot of my time as well.

But so far so good, I also have to check all the changes and even at times add my designs and ideas.

[thecat@]

My contract is pretty solid at this state for both print and web, but somehow since I am outsourcing I guess that is why I posted the deposit of 50%+ at begining.

I (believe) I can now see what you are saying saying. You are asking that if you outsource, should your clients cover a higher percentage upfront so you can pay the employee you've taken on due to the project?

For print, some designers demand 100% upfront before the project goes to press. Or, they have the client pay the printer direct. But you are basically hiring staff. So the question is this, should the client be responsible for paying your extra staff upfront?

I'd very much like to hear what others have to say on this matter.

So good to have you around, you are well experienced and knowledgeable.

Thanks for the howdie :-)

[morea]

On the few occasions that I have handled printing for my clients I have required 100% payment for the printing up front - after the final art is approved but before going to press.

[bejamshi]

I (believe) I can now see what you are saying saying. You are asking that if you outsource, should your clients cover a higher percentage upfront so you can pay the employee you've taken on due to the project?


Exactly my friend.:D

[thecat@]

Ok, off the cuff ... if a (edit: 'known') client came to me with a big project and said they wanted xxx and to do this I'd need to hire additional staff ... then I'd request that the client pay monthly to cover the extra staffing costs.

But it would be wrapped up in the project proposal and contract. I wouldn't ask them to pay any more upfront (as in 'deposit') than is normal.

[bejamshi]

Thanks Cat, I guess with experience I will learn. Hoping that the next big one I will change my contract accordingly.
Have I told you I love your avatar, do you think i should stick to crazy wabbit?
That is my mascot. :P

[thecat@]

Yeah, it only takes a little time (and reading business books is a help)

Thanks on the avatar. I had fun taking the pottie pic :-D

Your avatar is fine. I wouldn't change a thing.

[bejamshi]

In this crazy world I got to keep a low profile being a crazy wabbit with 100000000 questions to ask. I am driving everyone crazy on a whole bunch of different forums. :P
http://www.wekko.fi/peliwekko/wii/pelit/Rayman_Raving_Rabbids/rabbid_art.png

[Ned]

As a general rule I charge 50% upfront, but if it's a larger project (say over a month), I'll charge 30% upfront, 30% at mid-point, and 35% with the final deliverable.

Those are charges for services. Product prices are like any retail store - 100% pre-paid, even if it has to be ordered.

[balou]

In this crazy world I got to keep a low profile being a crazy wabbit with 100000000 questions to ask. I am driving everyone crazy on a whole bunch of different forums. :P
http://www.wekko.fi/peliwekko/wii/pelit/Rayman_Raving_Rabbids/rabbid_art.png

How on earth do you find time for work? ;)

[bejamshi]

Hi Ned, I like that idea
Balou there is always time to play or else you go crazy like me.
Did that made sense? :P

[Ned]

No.

[Red Kittie Kat]

not sure why but that just cracked me up Ned :D

must have more coffee....

[G Designz]

I charge 50% deposit

[onedarkangel_uk]

As a general rule I charge 50% upfront, but if it's a larger project (say over a month), I'll charge 30% upfront, 30% at mid-point, and 35% with the final deliverable.

Same here. I charge 50% upfront but if larger, which is most of the case, I cut it up. One for upfront, then midpoint and the rest on final delivery. I never take work with no deposit. I learnt my lessons years back and it also filters out the ones who just not what I am lookingfor as clients.

[bejamshi]

Nice , :P

[G Designz]

OK what about when you send the draft do you block it with your logo? I put my business name across the design lightly just enough to see both the design and my business name. This will protect me from them stealing it if they decide to like the design the first time.

[bejamshi]

You should have something in your contract regarding if they cancel your project mid point that you retain all copyright and designs and that they can get their ass sued. Always send low res pdf for their reviews, on the bottom of it you can write the standard copyright logo with year and your company name too.

[bejamshi]

never mind
(http://forum.howdesign.com/tm.aspx?m=303475)

[onedarkangel_uk]

OK what about when you send the draft do you block it with your logo? I put my business name across the design lightly just enough to see both the design and my business name. This will protect me from them stealing it if they decide to like the design the first time.

Well, let's say you are the customer and the work costs, $1,000. Now, you signed the contract, also my client disclosure agreement. You also pay me 50% upfront.

I do the rough draft and you got them.

Now, you go and steal the logo or whatever the rough draft is, and you say to me, "cough, I changed my mind and don't want the work anymore."

I reply, "Ok, that's fine. Thanks for the deposit because as you can see in the contract, you cannot have it re-funded. That's what a deposit is for."

Now, you're the customer. Do you think you're going to carry on the work or lose the $500 deposit and then pay someone else, to make the draft I did into something else and pay even more?

Either way, I win. Plan your written agreement, your contract well. Don't rush it. Think of every scenerio.

[thecat@]

OK what about when you send the draft do you block it with your logo? I put my business name across the design lightly just enough to see both the design and my business name. This will protect me from them stealing it if they decide to like the design the first time.

I've never felt the need to go that route.

The trick is to learn how to smell out clients who would do something like this and avoid them like the plague.