Am I crazy, or is my client's designer just OLD SKOOL?

[DesignVHL]

I supplied two EPS files to a client (uploaded to their mydocsonline account). The Designer of this book is using Quark for the layout. He is requesting I save the EPS file DOWN to 11!!! Who uses 11 anymore! ???

If they are not editing the file, is it really necessary to down save and take a chance that design elements will get screwed up? Its a two color job, no gradients, all solid colors - and no transparency - are flattened - text and strokes to outlines....when i try to save down, I get the wonderful yellow yield sign ! on the bottom saying that printing results may not be good. So I opted NOT to just in case elements get messed up. The original file was a VectorWorks file that was exported as a PDF and then I opened it and edited it in Illustrator. I told this designer that saving down could yield mixed results.....

I mentioned this to the Designer, and he still wants it saved down to 11...i stopped saving down to 11 like 2 or 3 yrs ago and this is a first request for me in a long time...So I am going to supply the file in cs2 and 11 formats anyways...but I just do not think it is necessary!

He is also asking me to put them on CD (delaying printing now of course) instead of him downloading from the client's mydocs site....this is strange to me considering the files are not that big...this guy seems like he's still working out of the 90's or something! Should I just be patient and adhere to his request?

Advice on how to deal with this please...and am i crazy? lol...

[Satchel]

Well he IS the client, right?

if that's what they want, then that's what you should give 'em!

[DesignVHL]

well...its not really my client, its actually MY CLIENT's Book Designer...I was hired to clean up and edit some vector files and convert to two spot colors so that HIS DESIGNER can use the EPS files to import into quark - SOOO it really honestly IS SO NOT NECESSARY for him to be a pain in the ass! :P Plus now that I think about, not that i mind the work, but you would think that this guy being a designer himself would have known how to accomplish this task with out me in the middle at all!

I guess I'll supply both and not try to "educate" lol just a pain and seems pointless...but whatever.

[MD]

Maybe - but he is running CS which really isn't that old. Since he is using quark I can understand him skipping CS2 and he is probably on an older computer that probably can't run the system hog that CS3 is.

Not being able to download the files .... kinda retarded

[Virgo Nightingale]

If I don't know who's eventually getting a file I'm sending or what version they're up to, I send version 10. The stuff I deal with usually doesn't have anything too complicated, so I don't worry too much about the compatibility. We have many clients whose print vendors are in the software ice ages.

[DesignVHL]

ok so just for clarity...no matter what will i get that yellow yield sign message - even if the file will (and should) come out oK? Just don't want the file to be messed up....

thanks for the responses everyone...

[urstwile]

Case in point, I just had to send out three EPS files to a signmaking vendor, in version 8 (:eek: ), PC format.

[Virgo Nightingale]

ok so just for clarity...no matter what will i get that yellow yield sign message - even if the file will (and should) come out oK? Just don't want the file to be messed up....

thanks for the responses everyone...
You'll get that warning regardless, whether there are elements that are subject to change or not. Unless the file uses features that have only been introduced to Illy recently, you should be fine.

[DesignVHL]

ok now THAT is sad! :P

*so if i flatten and save down regardless of error message, should this darn thing be OK???? I don't want them to have problems!

[DesignVHL]

You'll get that warning regardless, whether there are elements that are subject to change or not. Unless the file uses features that have only been introduced to Illy recently, you should be fine.


cool, thanks virgo i'm at ease now. :) I

[JgS]

I almost always save to 8 or 10 unless I know what version of Illustrator the other person is using.

[Virgo Nightingale]

The only thing I can think of is if you've left type un-outlined, that can get funky. But you mentioned that it was outlined, so that shouldn't be a problem.

[DesignVHL]

oh yeah i always outline text...guess i should start saving down more eh!

[PrintDriver]

I couldn't let this one sit even though it is a day or two old.

A signmaker wanting version 8 is not the sign <gak> of a bad signmaker. Much of the plotting software cannot keep up with Adobe's yearly upgrades. Version 8 was the most stable of the pre-transparency Illustrators and most plotters for signage won't understand transparency anyway.

Now if this signmaker is printing be scared. There is no excuse not to be upgraded if printing signage.

As for saving down to anything below 10, be very very careful. Version 8 does not support transparency or any of the new effects in CS2 and 3. When the files are flattened for version 8 you lose all of your ability to edit transparent or unexpanded Effects. Your areas of transparency become CMYK colors that have no relation to the Pantones you may have used and can be impossible to color correct. You all already know about the 2 (or is it 3 now) text engine upgrades. If your text is not outlined before downsaving you'll run into all sorts of kerning disasters and uneditable point type.

Another interesting thing about Illy v8 is it carries the pre-2000 Pantone color formulae. Good luck...:p

As for the eps and Quark thing, it may be more a function of the version of Quark being used that you have to downsave. Even Quark 6 should be able to accept a CS .eps file though. Don't ever downsave as a general principle. If you are not sure of the recipient's version, find out beforehand and try to work within the limitations of the version. Don't go wild with a design then downsave.

[DesignVHL]

i always outline text in eps files for clients, no worries! I forgot that 11 is CS lol saying 11 makes it sound older these days...

this was for a book not large format. project complete, client happy. :)

Good tips tho PD for sure. :)

[PrintDriver]

I was just making a crack at Urst's jab at a signmaker.
Somehow it turned into a lecture.
Sorry.
:p

[DesignVHL]

lol its cool...i didn't even take it as a lecture...more like, advice. :)

[bejamshi]

did someone say crazy?

[urstwile]

I was just making a crack at Urst's jab at a signmaker.
Somehow it turned into a lecture.
Sorry.
:p
I didn't say the signmaker was bad, PD. :( I just said that that's what I had to do to send files out.

And for the record, there was absolutely no transparency in the file, just straight vector on a PMS background, which I made sure to inform the vendor of in terms of the PMS number.

My point (which was apparently not made very well) was simply that it shouldn't be considered "old school" to have to save things down into older versions for different vendors. Maybe I shouldn't have thrown the "eek" smiley in there. Although, for the record, this vendor had never heard of InDesign, either. ;)

[hewligan]

But, but - I went to an Adobe seminar last year and they told me that if we weren't using transparency and effects all over the place, and keeping them all live until they hit the RIP, there was something wrong with us!

They also couldn't understand why those of us who do web kept looking at the code when we could be using Dreamweaver's preview mode!

;) :D

[urstwile]

Those bait and switch seminars are probably major culprits in terms of how people view things once they need to go to print.

[hewligan]

To bbe fair, I actually learnt some really neat tricks there, and it was free barring having to listen to them try to sell me stuff. But ya gotta be able to figure out what's good advice and what's just pressuring people to upgrade.

[urstwile]

Oh absolutely! We have an annual print tradeshow here where they have those seminars, and when my schedule permits, I always go, with a fairly jaded mind however, waiting for them to try to sell me. But I end up walking away with new knowledge nevertheless. Too bad they don't have a tip jar, I always feel kind of bad that I never fall for it. ;)

[hewligan]

Hey, if Adobe's con-men aren't good enough to con us, that's their problem. They should have hired better con-men ;)

[urstwile]

troo-dat. :D

[PrintDriver]

No Urst, you did it right. Your point was taken in the context you meant. I went out of context (Hijacked.) I'm trying to cut down on that actually. Not having much luck.

[DesignVHL]

nothing wrong with going off on a tangant so long as the "issue" of the thread has been resolved though, right! :) Hijack away, this project is put to bed - just gotta invoice em!

[morea]

Hijack away, this project is put to bed

well in THAT case...

http://i11.tinypic.com/6cijv4x.gifhttp://i11.tinypic.com/6cijv4x.gifhttp://i11.tinypic.com/6cijv4x.gifhttp://i11.tinypic.com/6cijv4x.gifhttp://i11.tinypic.com/6cijv4x.gif

[Virgo Nightingale]

What the fudge is that thing? A banana giving the rock n' roll hand sign while riding a lime green llama? What is this world coming to???

[morea]

it is indeed.

And to answer your final question, we are probably better off NOT knowing.

[Virgo Nightingale]

I guess I'm just too curious for my own good. Crap.

[Kool]

I think that's the Hang Loose sign. The Metal devil horn sign (Invented by Ronnie James Dio) has the thumb folded in.

[morea]

speaking of signs:

http://i10.tinypic.com/6gcnnnd.jpg

[Virgo Nightingale]

I think that's the Hang Loose sign. The Metal devil horn sign (Invented by Ronnie James Dio) has the thumb folded in.
Oops. You're right. My bad. I should know these things. I was a metal chick before I went all hippy.

[Kool]

Heh heh, I was watching Metals 100 greatest moments a while back on VH1 and they had a segment on the metal sign.

[Virgo Nightingale]

I think I saw that, too! :D

[Kool]

I used to be a Metal rocker too, had the spandex and the long permed locks and me and our guitar player had the place our axes in our crotch and wave em at the girls move down pat. I miss those days although the thought of me in spandex now is rather frightening. :)

[Virgo Nightingale]

I used to do the spandex too. Also a scary sight now. :D

[DesignVHL]

Oops. You're right. My bad. I should know these things. I was a metal chick before I went all hippy.

Ha thats funny - I went through a punk rock/skater phase > metal > goth (NOT EMO lol i'm too old) > well normal I guess....I'm not a hippy - at least I don't look or really dress like one, however I dig hippy "jam band" music....still listen to punk and metal and other stuff too....my different phases has really let me love, understand and appreciate many different types of music. :)

[PrintDriver]

Isn't the hand-sign with two horns and the thumb folded in an old old hex sign that was supposed to reverse the Evil Eye onto the caster? Or does the metal sign point up instead of at.

[Kool]

Isn't the hand-sign with two horns and the thumb folded in an old old hex sign that was supposed to reverse the Evil Eye onto the caster? Or does the metal sign point up instead of at.


From an interview with Ronnie James Dio on Metal-Rules.com:

Metal-Rules.com – "I want to ask you about something people have asked you about before but will no doubt continue to talk about, and that is the sign created by raising your index and little finger. Some call it the "devils hand" or the "evil eye." I would like to know if you were the first one to introduce this to the metal world and what this symbol represents to you?"

R.J. Dio – "I doubt very much if I would be the first one who ever did that. That's like saying I invented the wheel, I'm sure someone did that at some other point. I think you'd have to say that I made it fashionable. I used it so much and all the time and it had become my trademark until the Britney Spears audience decided to do it as well. So it kind of lost it's meaning with that. But it was…I was in Sabbath at the time. It was symbol that I thought was reflective of what that band was supposed to be all about. It's NOT the devil's sign like we're here with the devil. It's an Italian thing I got from my Grandmother called the "Malocchio". It's to ward off the Evil Eye or to give the Evil Eye, depending on which way you do it. It's just a symbol but it had magical incantations and attitudes to it and I felt it worked very well with Sabbath. So I became very noted for it and then everybody else started to pick up on it and away it went. But I would never say I take credit for being the first to do it. I say because I did it so much that it became the symbol of rock and roll of some kind."

[Virgo Nightingale]

Ha thats funny - I went through a punk rock/skater phase > metal > goth (NOT EMO lol i'm too old) > well normal I guess....I'm not a hippy - at least I don't look or really dress like one, however I dig hippy "jam band" music....still listen to punk and metal and other stuff too....my different phases has really let me love, understand and appreciate many different types of music. :)
I'm not even much of a hippy anymore either, really. I guess it's just the cliché I most identify with, but it's not like I wear handmade corduroy-patch dresses and flower headbands, preach my pro-peace sentiments and live out of a VW microbus. I do like tie-dye though... :D

[MD]

I'm not even much of a hippy anymore either, really. I guess it's just the cliché I most identify with, but it's not like I wear handmade corduroy-patch dresses and flower headbands, preach my pro-peace sentiments and live out of a VW microbus. I do like tie-dye though... :D
In other words she just likes to smoke weed.

[urstwile]

No Urst, you did it right. Your point was taken in the context you meant. I went out of context (Hijacked.) I'm trying to cut down on that actually. Not having much luck.
Woohoo, thanks for the vindication Mr. Driver. :D

[morea]

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c343/gdfmorea/silly%20things/rofl.gif

[Virgo Nightingale]

In other words she just likes to smoke weed. DINGDINGDINGDINGDING!

Tell him what he's won, Johnny... :D

[morea]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAPcagtoaMs

[bejamshi]

Did someone say crazy agian?

[Virgo Nightingale]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAPcagtoaMs
ha!