Estimating Ettiquete

[kinch]

Hello all,

I'm quite new to freelancing, but I've already got a few clients. (Enough for me while I'm going to school.)

Anyways, I was just wondering about estimating. When you send out an estimate, and it's accepted, is that the firm price? Can it be ammended?

I guess I should ask my estimating instructor.... however I never think to ask this when I'm in his class. :)

[Tea]

All I know is that I received an estimate for my roof to be reshingled. Later, I received a phone call clarifying that did not include the garage, although the box by the garage was checked. I didn't appreciate that.

[kinch]

All I know is that I received an estimate for my roof to be reshingled. Later, I received a phone call clarifying that did not include the garage, although the box by the garage was checked. I didn't appreciate that.

I wouldn't appreciate that either. I have no plans on doing that, and I would swallow the cost due to ethical reasons.

I guess I already answered my own question. Funny how that works sometimes.

But if I could get answers on how how others deal with their estimating, that would be great.

[urstwile]

I estimate that the amount of etiquette I am capable of is drastically reduced in direct proportion to the more beer that I drink. <belch> :D

[budafist]

You have an estimating instructor!? Wow. That's cool.

I'm guessing that you estimates are for a package price. Example: 1 logo design and 1 business card for the price of 4 cows.

Your estimates should specify how many hours work the estimate entails. That way if the job turns out to be one of those nightmare jobs that run many hours over your estimate, you are covered.

Therefore:
Estimate for 1 logo design at 2 hours
@ rate of 1 cow per hour = 2 cows.
1 business card design at 2 hours
@ rate of 1 cow per hour = 2 cows.
Total estimate = 4 cows.

Should this project run over 4 hours, customer will be billed at a rate if 1 cow per hour.

[kinch]

You have an estimating instructor!? Wow. That's cool.

I'm guessing that you estimates are for a package price. Example: 1 logo design and 1 business card for the price of 4 cows.

Your estimates should specify how many hours work the estimate entails. That way if the job turns out to be one of those nightmare jobs that run many hours over your estimate, you are covered.

Therefore:


Should this project run over 4 hours, customer will be billed at a rate if 1 cow per hour.

Yes we do. The course I'm taking is actually pretty broad. It's called "Digital Graphics Communications" We have pre-press, typography, printing administration, press (Yes we run the presses... although this isn't my career choice, I think knowing how to run a press makes you a better designer.), bindery/finishing, etc. I did not expect I'd be learning so much from this course, but I'm glad I am.

The estimating course is more about estimating for a print/press shop. So you estimate how much paper you will need, your rent, your staffing costs, etc. But I'm sure I can learn something out of the course for freelancing.

Thanks for the tip.

I do have a question though. Does this work for an estimate:

1 logo done for the rate of 2 cows. 1 hour of revisions done at the rate 1 cow.

That way the original job is guaranteed to be done. I would feel more comfortable giving a flat rate for the actual logo and then charge for revisions. If the revisions go over 1 hour, then I start charging more.

[budafist]

Your course sounds very realistic and a great transition into the real world. Many courses teach students much in a vacuum and when they hop out into the real world there are all these real world problems that they don't know how to solve.

That's fine too with your estimate, just as long as you put in something about charging for revisions to cover yourself.

[tZ]

The best thing to do is charge the process not the logo.

[PrintDriver]

The estimate is only the first step. Once a price is agreed on, draw up a contract that specifically states what the estimate covers. Be sure to limit revisions and proofs. Once the job deviates from the contract explain to the client that a change order will be needed and additional costs will accrue.

[kinch]

The estimate is only the first step. Once a price is agreed on, draw up a contract that specifically states what the estimate covers. Be sure to limit revisions and proofs. Once the job deviates from the contract explain to the client that a change order will be needed and additional costs will accrue.

That sounds fair. Any examples of contracts specifically for graphic freelancers? I'm pretty good with doing such things, (I've written constitutions, ammendments, policies, etc...) but it would be good to have a few examples to go over so I don't miss anything.

Tyler

[kinch]

The best thing to do is charge the process not the logo.

Do you mean per hour?

[PrintDriver]

http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7892
Scroll almost all the way down to the bottom for contract links.
You might stop at a few other things along the way. ;)

[tZ]

You break up the design into a chargeable process of steps.

For example:

research
conceptualization
thumbnails
roughs
final

Then you charge so much for each part. When you add up each steps cost its sum equals the estimate or end total. This will provide much more lee way in pricing then just saying the cost of the logo is Y. It will also provide a safety net to fall on if the project is dumped. Theoretically, you could say that the concept(word) stage takes 4 hrs for instance. Then charge your flat rate x 4. So once that stage is complete the client owes that regardless of whether or not the project is killed. Its just a better position to be in rather then saying a logo cost X.

Then you can adjust the pricing based on how many thumbnails, roughs or ect. the client would like or their budget. A client with a larger budget might get more roughs or more time devoted to the concept stage then a client with a lower budget. You could also set a minimum and say that regardless of the client or budget E hours has to spent doing research. So that people know immediately whether they can afford you or not. The minimum number of hours or compositions per a part of the process.

You could also say that I'm going to spend T time for thumbnails but, my client also wants be to do additional thumbnails to build upon what I present the first time. So it all depends on the client and budget.

This is just a quick example but, you could amend it to your needs or even create your own landmarks. For example, you could add a step such as composite of three ideas before final. Where you present three ideas in their vector form. Then the client picks one to finalize. However, the final step could only really take up an hr if less of your time so its only worth and hr. Therefore, if the client where to kill the project at that step then you would be in fore most your money.

It all really comes down to common sense.

[urstwile]

What tZ and Buda have said thus far is correct. Generally, when I provide an estimate, I itemize:

Design and concepting: x number of seagulls (which I prefer to cows, but then again, Buda's in New Zealand, and I'm in San Diego :))
Layout after concept and design approval: x number of seagulls
First round of revisions: x number of seagulls (expects lots of seagulls on the first round)
Second round of revisions: x number of seagulls (a lot less than the first round of seagulls)

Additional changes need to be stipulated as PD said, in a change order, and you need to specify in your contract going in that anything beyond the 2nd round (or whatever you determine is the sign off round on the project) are billed at 15 minutes (minimum) worth of seagulls per change request, which will hopefully encourage the client to a) minimize the number of penny ante changes they ask for and b) also encourage them to get you the changes in a concise way, rather than a phone call here and a phone call there.

[budafist]

Good point Urst about the minimum charge. Charging 15 minutes minimum helps to limit (or at least reimburses you nicely) those clients that call you many times in a day to change "just one more thing". With the minimum charge, each change incurs a 15 minute fee.