spot to process

[calebm12]

can someone kindly explain to me the warning: spot colors can have unexpected results when changed to process colors. I get this when saving the ai file. Is this gonna be aproblem when it goes to print.
c

[budafist]

I depends, are you happy with the spot colour being converted to process colour? Example, PMS 877 will convert from metallic silver to a grey made up of CMYK.

Check what the CMYK breakdown is going to be to figure out if you will be satisfied with what is going to happen to your spot colours.

If for example, you cannot have PMS 877 (silver) converted to grey, then you will need to print the job in a spot colour.

[calebm12]

ok that makes good sense. this is a brochure. so it will have to be printed in process. my spot colors are red and green so i dont think there will be much difference in matching. does this sound right?? thanks for clarifying that..

[budafist]

If it's a CMYK job, then you should use a red and green made out of CMYK instead of choosing spot colours.

[calebm12]

so that would be any color eh? Long as i am not using pantone swatches??

[budafist]

Yes. CMYK means that you can use any colour that is made up of a percentage of C or M or Y or K.

[PrintDriver]

Buda, to do that they would need a Pantone Spot to Process book, no?

I'm still quite confused why it appears here that 4-color printers don't match spot colors into process for clients. I've had to get quite a few marketing pieces printed over the past several years now (not my usual chore) where the techs, I assume, swapped out colors to make sure the PMS I picked came out correctly on press. It wasn't up to me to 'find' a correct CMYK mix as I have no book and hate taking chances.

Is this abnormal? Or do these particular printers I use just have damn good ICC profiles for press conversion? It costs a little extra per spot conversion but for a good match, I don't care.

If the OP just picks a CMYK green and red, their print sure as heck won't match their monitor and a S2P guide is just that. Only a guide.

:confused:

[The_Black_Knight]

(The following is not necessarily directed toward PrintDriver, so don't think I'm blasting him or his expertise, which I know is quite extensive in the world of large format printing. — TBK)

And I'm still confused why the only swatch book that designers ever look at is the Pantone Spot Color guide, even when they know from the very beginning that the piece they are working on is CMYK. It's more understandable when a CMYK piece is part of an overall campaign that also includes pieces printed with spot colors (hey, it happens), but I have seen plenty of standalone pieces with a dozen Pantone spot colors converted to CMYK — why? It's as if 99.31% of designers are unaware that the Pantone Process Color guide even exists. There is even a set of Pantone process color swatches in Illustrator, InDesign, and Photoshop.

And yet, whenever I pick up a designer's artwork that's supposed to be CMYK and get it ready for production, there are a bazillion spot colors in it, as if the artist didn't even know that the colors would come out w-a-a-a-y different than the colors they saw in their spot color book. Or, it seems that colors were just randomly chosen from the Illustrator swatch guide without referring to a real swatch book at all (yikes!).

Designers: there is more than one tool in the color toolbox. Can we start using them like we know what we're doing, please?

Art Colleges: Can you stop focusing on making student's designs "edgy" and controversial, and instead start actually teaching students the difference between spot and process colors, and also fail any student who can't explain the difference before graduating, please? And could you also tattoo the failing students' foreheads with some kind of mark so that I can see them coming from a distance? Thanks.

[PrintDriver]

Most of the time we are only supplied PMS spot colors to start. I've yet to see a corporate Standard to use the actual Process chart color number (xxx-x) to define color, though many will give CMYK equivalents to be used. It's worse when they only supply the CMYK equivalents and no spot as I have no way to tell what that color is supposed to be coming off a press or an inkjet printer.

To be clear, the Process swatch books aren't the same as the S2P books.
One is an actual chip set with very little relation to PMS colors (that I can see), the other is a book that shows you what your PMS color will probably look like when printed as Process in 4-color printing (but not always and certainly not in large format)

Now, is there a cross chart that gives you correct equivalents for PMS color in CMYK Process numbers? I don't think so. Not cross media/paper. That's what ICC profiling is supposed to be for. Is there a chart that will tell you what PMS color a certain CMYK formula will be. No. You can manually check and come close but the answer is still no.

Pantone, in its infinite wisdom, doesn't develop the tools they have but are quite ready to offer new ones (like the GOE system).

Actually we use the Process chart all the time (but not the book). And rather ironically we use it most for matching colors on a Lambda printer which uses RGB lasers (don't ask, it's just a tool with a better color range than the straight PMS charts).

My very first post on this forum was a rant about color usage and why designers do things they shouldn't. I'm still not 100% up on Process usage in the 4-color world, I just don't do it enough, but now I see why designers do what they do in mine.

[Blanket_509]

I didn't read what everyone wrote up until this point cause I'm lazy, but if you are sending a brochure to print in color, it will most likely be CMYK, in which case you will want to convert your spot colors to process, then re-save the illustrator document before you send it to the printer. This is really easy, just click on the object that has a spot color applied, then in the color pallette, click on the little menu button in the upper right corner and click on CMYK. This will convert the spot color to the closest possible 4 color build. There are other ways to do this. In your swatches pallette, you can select and delete all unused swatches, then double click each one that is spot and a box will open up that will present an option to convert to process.

[PrintDriver]

Yep, and hope you like the way it prints.

[Blanket_509]

Oh, I forgot. If the spot colors are on a logo, you might want to check and make sure the client doesn't want those spot colors applied to the logo. Like for instance, coca cola red is the same EVERYWHERE because it is printed using a solid spot ink on its own color plate. Process builds tend to be inconsistent because it requires colors to be mixed with much precision, whereas a spot ink is a worldwide standard solid ink, making it consistent everywhere it is printed. You can really tell the difference when you look at printed samples under a magnifying glass. Spot inks have no halftone pattern.

[Ovaltine]

And I'm still confused why the only swatch book that designers ever look at is the Pantone Spot Color guide, even when they know from the very beginning that the piece they are working on is CMYK. It's more understandable when a CMYK piece is part of an overall campaign that also includes pieces printed with spot colors (hey, it happens), but I have seen plenty of standalone pieces with a dozen Pantone spot colors converted to CMYK — why? It's as if 99.31% of designers are unaware that the Pantone Process Color guide even exists. There is even a set of Pantone process color swatches in Illustrator, InDesign, and Photoshop.

I think many don't know the process guide exists. I asked my boss to order a pantone process color guide when I started working there (3 years ago) because all they had was a 7 year old spot color guide. He gladly purchased one and proudly presented it to me.... it was a spot to process guide. Ridiculous, "how" I thought,"does he expect me to properly color correct anything without the correct color guide?" I gave up asking for it though, because he didn't understand, and I was the new girl.

All he had to to was go here: http://www.pantone.com/pages/pantone/index.aspx and search for "formula guide to get this booklet: http://www.pantone.com/Pages/Products/Product.aspx?pid=14&ca=1

[PrintDriver]

I would be quite happy if there was only 1 guide. The numbering system of the Process guide makes a hekuvalot more sense than the PMS numbering system. And from what I understand the GOE system is numbered pretty much the same way. We don't need 3 systems. And every once in a while a designer will send me a Pantone Textile color or a Pantone Plastic color. Get real please.

[The_Black_Knight]

If you ever want to have some real fun, try working with jobs that use Toyo colors.

Just how in the heck am I supposed to tell you what those are supposed to look like? I don't even know myself...

Don't even ask.

[The_Black_Knight]

This is really easy, just click on the object that has a spot color applied, then in the color pallette, click on the little menu button in the upper right corner and click on CMYK.Because royal blues and deep purples always look so good when converted from spot to process. :rolleyes:

You are kidding, right? Please tell me you're just being sarcastic, or something. Please.

[Blanket_509]

Because royal blues and deep purples always look so good when converted from spot to process. :rolleyes:

You are kidding, right? Please tell me you're just being sarcastic, or something. Please.

I didn't say it was going to be perfect, I just answered the question of how to convert spot to process in illustrator.

[Blanket_509]

And yes, you should always make sure that you are happy with how the color looks after being converted. And use a spot to process swatch guide to see the closest 4 color builds for each spot color. Jeez, I guess I have to watch what I say around here. Don't want to draw the wrath of the self-proclaimed design gods.

[PrintDriver]

There are no self-proclaimed design gods. Only a few printers trying to keep you designers honest. ;)

Oh, come on BK. Are you telling me you don't have a Toyo book hidden in your bedside drawer to pull out on those 'special' occasions? :p

http://www.toyoinkus.com/products/colorfinder.asp

[calebm12]

wait a sec...reading this, this neewbie is slighly confused. when making logos i also use the pantone swatches on illy. i mostly use the pantone process uncoated....are yall now saying that these are process worthy colors??
could some one explain the swatch libraries on illy. Are all the PANTONE ones spot colors??? maybe its casue i havent had any coffee yet!
c

[Ovaltine]

If you look in your swatch library (I can't say exactly where because right now I don't have access to my own computer- I believe you click the little triangle to pull it up from the palette) you should see several PANTONE library options. If you want your colors to be 4 color process, pick from the PANTONE process color libraries, not the PANTONE spot libraries.

[CkretAjint]

Are all the PANTONE ones spot colors???

Umm, yes. PANTONE colors ARE are spot colors. So if you are using a PANTONE color you are using a spot color.

[hewligan]

Umm, yes. PANTONE colors ARE are spot colors. So if you are using a PANTONE color you are using a spot color.

Not true.
The Pantone Process [Whatever] are CMYK builds.

The Pantone Solid [Whatever] and Pantone Metallic [Whatever] are spots. The Pantone Pastel [Whatever] look like they're spots, too, but I really now nothing about them.

In Illy, spot colours have a dot in a little white triangle in the bottom right of the swatch. Swatches with a triangle but no dot are global, but not spot colours. No triangle at all means a "normal" swatch - that is, if you change it later, it won't affect objects you've previously applied it to.

[CkretAjint]

Not true.
The Pantone Process [Whatever] are CMYK builds.

The Pantone Solid [Whatever] and Pantone Metallic [Whatever] are spots. The Pantone Pastel [Whatever] look like they're spots, too, but I really now nothing about them.

Well, thats what a meant... Just came out wrong :o