Help on layout issue please...

[lfredericks]

Hello, I am new here and am impressed with what I see!

I have been a graphic designer for about 8 years and came across a project that has stumped me on layout.

My client is building a presentation folder. The folder itself is not an issue. The project will consist of 5 inserts which are 8.5X11 with tabs at the top of each page. I do not know what the standard is for handling these tabs. Do I need to produce a 'fake' tab area? I will be using InDesign for layout.

Any advice you can give will be greatly appreciated!
Thanks so much!
Leslie

[defjoe]

Leslie.. yes you do need to provide a fake tab. This is for the printer to know where to cut. Say your tab is a 1/2 inch, then if your actual insert is 8.5x11, you have to make the document 9x11 and indicate the tab. It's a type of die cut.

'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'

[lfredericks]

That is what I figured...are there typical cuts for these? Is this something I need to collaborate with the printer on as far as specifics go?

Please excuse my ignorance, previously my work has involved logo, brochure, and web design, so I am still learning the fancy stuff /emoticons/icon_redface.gif

Thanks again,
Leslie

[defjoe]

just call them Leslie.. they should knoew what to do if they are any sort of decent printer. they might have to outsource it... but they should know where to go for that.

'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'

[D-Frag]

Good luck, those are the biggest pains in the arse ever!!!!! make sure that you literally sleep at your print house while they run those and trim them. Just a little heads up, they never ever all come out perfect, so dont expect to lay 10 of those out and have them all look the same, the spacing in between each paper is crucial....just make sure that your printer provides you with the templates, and make sure you proof the hell out of it before press. Good Luck, those can really look nice if done right.


http://gallery.cybertarp.com/albums/userpics/13115/Profile_2.jpg

Yea ask the printer.

Is this something for a freelance client cause tabed documents printed might run you alot if they have to make new dies for them. Maybe they use a template so you don't have to pay for the dies. Each die will run you about $100.00. The Fancy stuff in printing can look really cool but it will always cost you.

I can't waite to deal with a client that has no limit on budget so I can bang out some die cut stationary or brochours or something. That would be really cool.

http://www.cbcamerica.com/images/webshots/banner-design.jpg
'Adventure, Excitement, A Jedi craves not these things.'
'Anger...fear...aggression. The dark side of the Force are they.'

[lfredericks]

Thanks a lot everyone. I have spoken with the printer and he has the 'cutter' (as he so eloquently put it) and will get back to me on the template. Hopefully they just have one handy so I'm not the guinnea pig :(

This project is looking like a huge pain in the arse as it is, so nothing would surprise me at this point. Oh well, we gotta pay our dues sometime, right?!

[lfredericks]

Ok. First problem solved, now here's the second.

The client now has an issue with the proposal I submitted. The project is 5 of these tabbed pages, front and back, with approx. 4 photos on each page that will have to be edited. I will also be writing their copy (oh yeah). They are a mid-size construction firm and think my bid is 'way too high'. I am not going to tell you what I bid, but am asking what you would bid on something like this.

In my proposal, I had a disclaimer that 'the proposal is an estimated based on current information supplied by the company to the designer...bla bla bla'. I don't know how to handle this at this point. The problem basically is this is a relative of mine who, I believe, wants something for nothing and does not understand what costs are associated with a project such as this.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Charge per hour and since you have 8+years of experience I wouldn't charge under 75 an hour. That is what I charge and I've only done this for 4-5 years. Also break down the cost in a Quote to them so they see that most of this is printing charges. I always do that and explain that you make no profit absolutley no profit on printing.

I thought they had no budget. WTF?

There are plenty of ways to bring the price down you should know them and also you should have at least three printers to go too. And be honest witht he printer tell them that you are shopping around and if they give you good rates you will bring new clients there way.

I say the template for the design would probably be 2-3 hours or work then the folder about 3-4. Then add about 1-2 hours for corrections. Copy wrighting is a diffrent thing I don't copy write so you might want to get info on how to bill them from another source.

Why aren't you telling us how much you bid? We aren't going to go after your client as a matter of fact anybody trying to rip another GDF member off is a scum bag to begin with.

http://www.cbcamerica.com/images/webshots/banner-design.jpg
'Adventure, Excitement, A Jedi craves not these things.'
'Anger...fear...aggression. The dark side of the Force are they.'

[lfredericks]

Well, I am starting to second guess my proposal and think I charged too much also, so I wanted to save myself the embarassment.

My hourly rate is $80/hr for design/layout, then photo manipulation or clean up and writing is $35. Since this project was new to me, I based my estimate on a general 8 page brochure layout, plus the cost of template design, photo editing and copy. They chose their printer and thankfully, this kept me out of the bidding loop on that one. My total hours estimated about 50 for everything, ending up with approx $3500 for the project. This of course includes two sets of revisions, 3 sets of proofs, and 1 final printed proof and CD, and troubleshooting with the printer. Plus, since this is family, they recieve my special discount of 20% based on individual invoices. They were quoted by the printer to do this project for $500. I basicallly told them you get what you pay for and there was no way I could match that price.

Yea man your way to high.

I added two hours to the fees I quoted you and I got 850 for the job. The print will always win on price against a designer cause they are still making money off the print job so they can afford to loose on the art charges. But and a but always makes the diffrence is that the guys working in print shops don't specialize in design like designer so chances are there work won't be as attractive to your work.

If I were you I would have handeled the printing. I did menus for a restuarant and the printing, foil stamping covers and all that came out to like $1,000.00 I charged like 275 for the artwork and billed him for it. I looked around and I was beating anybody else that offered a similar print job. Granted I printed the menus in NY the covers got done in Texas but the client doesn't know that. All he knows is that I delivered and the invoice tells him how much everything was so he doesn't feel riped off.

I would get the job quoted from printers around the country and see if you can beat there pricing. Thats what I do and I really don't think anyone can compete with me in pricing out here. I get full color cards done for $65 cause I shopped around.

Good luck with the bid and you should always bid to compete. I know it's going to be hard to go back and quote them under a Grand but you will still make a profit and if you provide the print cheaper you can mark it up to match the local guy and make some extra cash on the markup.

http://www.cbcamerica.com/images/webshots/banner-design.jpg
'Adventure, Excitement, A Jedi craves not these things.'
'Anger...fear...aggression. The dark side of the Force are they.'

[lfredericks]

I have never bid a brochure under a grand. Standard pricing for a tri-fold has always been exactly $1000. The last 8 page booklet I did ended up being $2500. ($200 per page + photos and copy). They already know they will pay out the arse for printing, but they chose to use only that printer...

[PrintDriver]

You guys ever consider getting incorporated and getting a tax resale certificate? In other words, a Wholesaler's license? While some printers charge you wholesale if you tell em you're reselling, the resale certificate can save you paying any applicable taxes and may get you an even lower rate. The certificate varies from state to state. Of course, you should be charging your clients state sales tax on delivered goods too...

Specialization is for insects...

R.H.

Thats a good idea. I never thought of that. I think I'll talk to my printer see if I can get some special pricing.

http://www.cbcamerica.com/images/webshots/banner-design.jpg
'Adventure, Excitement, A Jedi craves not these things.'
'Anger...fear...aggression. The dark side of the Force are they.'

[lfredericks]

I was actually thinking about incorporation, but I don't know if I want the headache at tax time yet. That's another positive to add to my list though!

Thanks!

[lfredericks]

Update...

Apparently my client (my uncle, actually) decided, rather than communicate with me after asking me to do this project, to go with the print shop. What is ironic is that after I made the original call to the print shop, inquiring on their die cuts, they made a call to them and undercut me big time. Is this normal, or just extrememly unethical? Anyway, now my uncle wants me to do their website, with the printer dictating what I design. I am debating on telling them to shove it or not. Does this happen often?

[PrintDriver]

More often than it should.
You gotta be real careful about identifying clients to vendors, especially vendors you don't have a working relationship with. If you do have a working relationship with a printer, they should respect the boundary of who's client is who's.

Specialization is for insects...

R.H.

[lfredericks]

Well, the problem with this was they have used that printer before, so, the printer knew who I was...I don't use that printer for anything, they are way overpriced. And apparently not too cool either.

[Mickey]

Tell you uncle to bit your ASSSSSS! He sounds like a jerk! and never work with that printer again. I think your first quote was more then fair, If they don't want to pay they wil get what they deserve...

http://home.wi.rr.com/mygraphics/konceptcreative.jpg

WOE!

Thats what I was trying to tell you. To handle the whole job because this is a known thing that happens in this cut-throat industry. I would get better pricing from another printer. It’s really not that difficult you ask for samples tell them you’re a designer and if they price you good that you’ll bring them more business.

Now if your uncle wants a web site I would drop the discount completely and charge what you would charge anyone else. That’s the problem with working with family they can be a pain in the ass.

Like Trump says it’s not personal it’s business. Man things like that piss me off. That printer is a real son of a BI!

http://www.cbcamerica.com/images/webshots/banner-design.jpg
'Adventure, Excitement, A Jedi craves not these things.'
'Anger...fear...aggression. The dark side of the Force are they.'