please stop with the "Try the search button"

[jibble]

This is basically just a rant.

We are all aware that every forum has a search utility, and, most of the time it will solve our problems. HOWEVER, in the time it takes some of you to post your "try the search" you probably could've just answered the question and been done with it. My point is this. I've been perusing through the forums looking at what may seem to be an interesting thread, until you read the "try the search" post.

WE KNOW HOW TO SEARCH. but most of the time our questions are specific to our example, so the search does no good, or we don't want to spend hours searching. I enjoy this forum, although not here regularly, but it really dampers things when your looking for a simple answer to a simple question and the BOOM the "try searching" post pops up. please people...

[AlexNJ210]

well....gorshk, uh-hyuck.

[jibble]

try using the "search" button for that,
type in "gorshk, uh hyuck" you'll find numerous answers to your question.

Also, never mind the fact that i know the answer to that problem of yours, i just want to put you on the rack, and tighten the ropes as tight as i can while you scream and pull your hair out "searching", while, instead of putting you through the misery, i could have just said, "do this" or "do that"

:)

[Red Kittie Kat]

What exactly were you searching for that has caused your troubles jibble?

[reuber1]

On VBulletin, some common acronyms render the search function useless...as "they're too short and have been omitted from the search" Searching for CSS specific problems can be a pain.

[jibble]

What exactly were you searching for that has caused your troubles jibble?

i made a post in the business section.

but mostly just in general. Its seems to be a recurrent theme going on in the forum. It's annoying, and most of all not helpful in any way. Just drives me nuts.

[frankster]

So the short story is this. I've been freelancing for about a year now, and for the most part it's going good, except I keep having recurring problems with clients and need to resolve this matter.

First of all, how can i keep a client on task? Meaning, I can only work as fast as a client can get content/info to me. I CONSTANTLY have to go after people asking them over and over again to keep up with me so i can get their job done, and get paid basically. Right now i have at least 4 projects halfway done awaiting the client to get me the info/assets i need to complete them. Is there a trick to this or should i just accept it and plan on clients being slow?

Second, the ever evolving job. I quote a job, and the client ends up asking more and more until it becomes, basically, twice the job. Whats a good way handle situations like this. Is it a bad thing to leave the quote open and say "a general ballpark figure of $xxxx" depending on the specifics?

Don't get your knickers in a twist! These questions come up very frequently here.

First question: You have to set project dates or milestones in your contract for clients to provide content to start, or approval to concepts/proofs in order to continue. Life is easiest when you have a strict timeline laid out in writing that is dependant on their punctuality as well as yours. Project completion date becomes void or is forwarded by the amount of time that they delay. Some busy designers will write delay charges into contracts, because if you have work lined up and slotted in your schedule for weeks or months ahead then you can't afford to be dealing with "old" jobs at the same time. As with most things, it's the risk of inevitable late charges that prompts action. Deposits and cancellation fees also help set fires under apathetic clients.

Question 2: Again you have to specify the job well in the contract. Every last element of what is to be provided and by when. If there is the possibility of extended project work then write terms for that into the contract. Revision limits and proof limits are key. It does take time to sort out the contract issues and make sure you're protected against dawdlers, or worse swindlers, and I know it takes the rush out of giving an immediate yes to an exciting project and starting work on it the minute you get back in the door, but if you are planning on making this your long term career then getting your personal contract details to suit the way you work will profit you no end, not just in removing unessesary frustration but in allowing you to ponder more the creative and less the legal ramifications of your work day to day. Dodgy clients will baulk at the contract and run (this does you a favour) and honest clients will appreciate the two way security a tight contract offers you both.

Sure contracts will differ depending on location, but the basics of avoiding clients giving you a metaphorical buttraping, whether deliberate or otherwise are the same everywhere.

sounds from your frustrations that you may need to read the article posted by a GDF member on whether you need to fire your clients...
http://www.jamestadeo.com/web-designer-when-to-fire-a-client.php

Here is a thread that contains dowloadable documents curtosy of a GDF member for people to compair their contracts to, or base theirs on as a starting point.
http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29392

Here is a thread talking about good books on the business issues of GD
http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28133

Jeff Fisher (another GDF member) also talks a lot of helpful talk about life as a freelancer.
http://blog-omotives.blogspot.com/2006/07/signing-on-dotted-line.html

[urstwile]

This is basically just a rant.

We are all aware that every forum has a search utility, and, most of the time it will solve our problems. HOWEVER, in the time it takes some of you to post your "try the search" you probably could've just answered the question and been done with it. My point is this. I've been perusing through the forums looking at what may seem to be an interesting thread, until you read the "try the search" post.

WE KNOW HOW TO SEARCH. but most of the time our questions are specific to our example, so the search does no good, or we don't want to spend hours searching. I enjoy this forum, although not here regularly, but it really dampers things when your looking for a simple answer to a simple question and the BOOM the "try searching" post pops up. please people...

In the time it took you to type all of the above, you could have found the answer to your question...by searching.

[Red Kittie Kat]

I can say that someone says to try the search button ... it's because it's a question that has probably been asked on several occasions. No one says it because they don't want to help. There are people here every single day volunteering their time to help people with all sorts of issues.

I can assure you no one was trying to dismiss your question. :)

[budafist]

Half of the questions that are asked on this forum have been asked before. We do all encounter the same problems. It drives us nuts when the same stuff is asked over and over again. If your question is indeed a fresh one, you should get serious fresh answers.

[undressedmonster]

In the time it took you to type all of the above, you could have found the answer to your question...by searching.

What terms would you have used to search for the subject of his problem? I could think of a few but I doubt they would lead to the exact issue. Or if they did, you would have to wade through 100 search results to find the appropriate topic.

[urstwile]

Undressed, check out the subject title of this thread. This thread started off as a rant, don't be surprised if it leads others to try to make a point. Just sayin'. :)

The point I was trying to make was that he/she started a rant disparaging the often frequent, and in my opinion well said suggestion that one should try to search first.

Coming up with no results then posting your query would be warranted. To title a thread in the way this one has been titled, well, suffice it to say that I think the original poster is making an excuse for laziness, sorry if that offends.

There are many topics posted on here that are oft-repeated queries. "Mac vs. PC" anyone? "Why are my InDesign previews so jaggy" anyone? "How do I convert a stroke into a path" anyone? "How do I post an image in the showcase" anyone? Those are just four that come to mind that have been answered, patiently, and yet frustratingly ad nauseam here in this forum, where a simple search would have sufficed. Anyone ever read the FAQ that Morea refers new members to? There's stuff in there that helps. But few read it.

If I were bored enough, I could probably find at least 10-15 threads on the same few questions, questions that have already been addressed, sometimes the same topic four or more times within the same day.

Yes, I suppose we could all just exasperatedly post the same reply to the same question, over and over, like some weird GDF version of "Groundhog Day". I'm almost thinking of investing in software that would allow me to post yet the same answer to the same question that I've already answered one too many times, store it in a database somehow, and just hit an F key. But doesn't that obscure the other questions that are new and that people can learn from?

What really chaps my hide is when someone starts a thread dissing the good recommendation to do a search first. This just opens it up to questioning why the original poster spent so much time ranting about that suggestion. Okay, if you're not into searching, fine, but don't start a thread dissing all the others who ask that you do. Do your homework, or, if you're not going to do your homework, then don't start a thread complaining about those who recommend that you do. Sorry to end with a preposition, or whatever the hell that's called. I'm too lazy to Google it.

[PrintDriver]

Well said, Urst.

More than 1/4 of questions posted here could be answered by:
A. reading the Help section of whatever program is causing you problems
B. reading the FAQ, Resources Forum, and Frequently discussed topics thread
C. Using the Google method of searhing the GDF or just using an online search engine (mamma.com rocks) to querry. GDF is thoroughly documented by all the major bots.
D. Doing a search.

[captain spanky]

while we're on the subject of answering questions... there's something i've been wondering...

Which is better Mac or PC?











;) :D

[CkretAjint]

*wields a knife in Captian Spankys direction* :)

[morea]

Anyone ever read the FAQ that Morea refers new members to? There's stuff in there that helps. But few read it.

thanks Urst. I did spend a considerable amount of time creating the threads in the "forum rules and guidelines" section which I give every new member a link to in their introduction thread.

For the record, all members and moderators on this forum are volunteers. We're glad to help others, but it's frustrating when a person won't even make a slight attempt to find an answer for himself, particularly when the topic has been discussed ad nauseum already.

Still, despite this, most people DO try to help others and there is nothing wrong with asking if someone has tried a forum search - honestly, some people don't realize that the function is available.

Registering for a forum is not a substitute for doing some basic thinking on your own. A forum can be a great resource, but only if you are decent to the other members. Nobody wants to help someone who signs up and then tells everyone else "look, things are going to change around here". Coming onto the board with a bad attitude (or otherwise telling the other 17,000+ members that their behavior now needs to fall in line with your standards) is not going to make people want to help you.

[vtwin_gary]

everyone should click the link at the bottom of my post (any of my posts)
to learn how & when to post.

[Exodus]

everyone should click the link at the bottom of my post (any of my posts)
to learn how & when to post.

lol, agreed.

And if you don't like that, you can click the link in my sig.

[carter the artist]

while we're on the subject of answering questions... there's something i've been wondering...

Which is better Mac or PC?











;) :D

If you are curious, you can try searching thru our forums. this has been a recurring... oh I see what you did there.

[Typically]

*wields a knife in Captian Spankys direction* :)

hahahaha oh man

yea i have to agree google is pretty good at finding stuff on the GDF. sometimes opening another window is just to much work though :p

[Broacher]

I'd put the 'heard it before' percentage much higher than 50 percent.

I think newer posters just have to recognize the fact that most of us old farts, are.. despite the rumors, more or less human (or a reasonable facsimile). As such, even we eventually get bored. Try answering the same question five hundred times and see how you feel about it after that.

Now try asking something truly new and you'd be amazed at the response times. Honestly, I can't resist a good prepress or production mystery (and I suspect I'm not alone).

(Spoiler: Captain Spanky did it in the parlour with his wrenched monkey!)



And since I have your attention, can someone please explain why I can't just resample my jpg web photo up to 300 dpi for a printing project?

[Craig B]

Broacher, you can resample your jpeg web photo to 300 dpi ... or more. Just go into Photoshop and make it an .eps and then it's vector! From there, the skies the limit.

[Tsmalldon]

And since I have your attention, can someone please explain why I can't just resample my jpg web photo up to 300 dpi for a printing project?


THE WORLD IS COLLAPSING UPON ITSELF, DOOM IS INEVITABLE............

[Tea]

Can I just say that when I joined, I felt like I found a gold mine, but a really big gold mine.

I don't disagree that searching before posting would alleviate some of the ad nauseum, but I was certainly overwhelmed with the sheer volume of posts to filter through.

It would serve only as a reminder that most people do catch on - eventually. The only way I can see the way through it is that a new member would only be able to post after successfullly using the search button.:)

[Exodus]

Broacher, you can resample your jpeg web photo to 300 dpi ... or more. Just go into Photoshop and make it an .eps and then it's vector! From there, the skies the limit.

Roffle

Or Shift + HighRes Button. Works like a charm.

[Craig B]

Good to know Exodus!

[Mynock]

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/7443/bc1001cajunstirpaddleus6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

+

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/1142/japanesehornetdu6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

+

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/2324/nest0004hp8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Satchel]

I dont understand how people can come on here looking for free help from professionals and then complain about it?

Mynock: I dont get it... just like some of those Mickey's riddles!? But man that's a huge bee!

[Mynock]

*Hint it's not a bee, but a hornet.

[Broacher]

I hope it's a dead one.

Isn't that one of those giant ones from the mountains of Japan? The kind that can actually kill people (especially people who ask questions without pre-searching forums?).

[Virgo Nightingale]

I'm here to participate in this fine online community, search for and find answers to my questions, ask questions I haven't found answers to, and help others who have unique questions. I don't have time to answer questions that can easily be answered by the OP by exerting a little effort and doing a thorough search.

If I say in my response to your question to do a google search, that probably means I think you're being lazy. If you're lucky and I'm feeling generous, I might help you by suggesting alternate terms that might give you better results. I will not do your work for you. Do it yourself. I'm not your bitch.


Mynock: Oar Hornet Nest?!?! :confused:

[Broacher]

Does that mean the position is now open? Alright!

Hey, I'm your bitchman.

Oh yeah.

[Mynock]

Stir stir. Stirring up a hornets nest? Heard of it or is it a local dialect?

[morea]

you don't stir with an oar, Mynock. ;)

[Craig B]

I thought it was Paddle Bee Nest ... and then I realized that Bee Nest sounds a lot like Penis .. and I snickered a little at my childishness. :)

[Typically]

ahhh stir.... i was thinking paddle hornets nest and oar hornets nest not stir... someone should start a thread with pictures phrases that could be fun

[Drazan]

I'm almost thinking of investing in software that would allow me to post yet the same answer to the same question that I've already answered one too many times, store it in a database somehow, and just hit an F key.

hehe, did that when I worked for a webhost. We had an IRC help room. Live chat so nothing was saved. So I and a couple others had a handy text file that we could copy and paste. I'll have to ask my roommate if he remembers the auto text app that he ran. We also programmed our chat's ai bot for auto responses. it (the bot) got pretty funny sometimes.

:)

**now back to your normal "search" bashing thread**

[jessicam]

I thought it was Paddle Bee Nest ... and then I realized that Bee Nest sounds a lot like Penis .. and I snickered a little at my childishness. :)

IAWTC. :)

[Seapony]

you don't stir with an oar, Mynock. ;)
LOL!

:D

[Virgo Nightingale]

you don't stir with an oar, Mynock. ;)
^^ What she said. You paddle with an oar. You don't go stirring the lake with it... :rolleyes: :p

[chalsema]

I thought it was Paddle Bee Nest ... and then I realized that Bee Nest sounds a lot like Penis .. and I snickered a little at my childishness. :)

:eek:


(I thought the same thing...)

[Virgo Nightingale]

I don't know that you would have had much more luck with an image of a drink stirrer, out of context you can't really guess what they are....

http://www.thepartypeople.com.au/products/images/prodImages/sm_365.jpg

http://www.thepapercupcompany.co.uk/image_library/wooden%20stirrer_1.gif

http://www.office365.co.uk/im/pim/166241.jpg

http://www.plumparty.com/Merchant2/graphics/products/large/18272.jpg

[morea]

http://i20.tinypic.com/n69i85.jpg


:D

[Kool]

You should have used this.
http://www.cosmiccafe.com/stir.gif

[The_Black_Knight]

http://i20.tinypic.com/n69i85.jpg


:DBut that's a mixer...

[Virgo Nightingale]

Ah yes. The VERB would have made more sense than the noun.

D'oh!

[morea]

You should have used this.
http://www.cosmiccafe.com/stir.gif

this is why Kool is the head moderator here.

Well done, sir. Well done.

[Virgo Nightingale]

So to rephrase Mynock's post....

We're
http://www.cosmiccafe.com/stir.gifing

the
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/1142/japanesehornetdu6.jpg's

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/2324/nest0004hp8.jpg


Ahh... much easier to understand...

[morea]

indeed! :D

[LeftBrain Artist]

You're cooking the crazy bee-man's hand with twigs? You guys are nuts.

InDesign or Quark?

CRT or LCD?

Bachelors Degree or Associates?

Toilet paper rolls over or under?

Pirates or Ninjas?

Chuck Norris or Vin Diesel?

How do you guys handle pricing? (Specific numbers please)

So which one is your favorite re-hashed topic?

[Typically]

oh oh oh my fav would have to be BA vs AS

[Craig B]

You forgot ... BA, AS or self taught?

[DonnaL]

Is there anyway to tell my BOSS to do a "search"? I'm tired of repeating myself to him....

[Red Kittie Kat]

lmao you guys ... this is why I love you guys :D


... for the record .. I couldn't get passed paddle bee birds nest .. it just wasn't clicking in ... but I am only on my first cup of coffee :D

[Satchel]

Glad I wasn't the only one to not get the picture riddle... I feel better now, but I do see it after it's spelled out for me.

[Red Kittie Kat]

I blame the left side of my brain .. it appears to not be working today :D

[LeftBrain Artist]

I blame the left side of my brain .. it appears to not be working today :D

You don't really need the left side anyway - it's kind of like an appendix, or wisdom teeth.

[Red Kittie Kat]

lmao ... thank you LBA I feel better now :D

[DonnaL]

So... if you have your wisdom teeth pulled and your appendix taken out.. does that mean they'll pull the left side of my brain out because I don't "need" it????

[morea]

only if it starts causing problems.

[AlexNJ210]

ive heard a few times from watching documentaries on brain studies and experiments that the right side *should* be the more active side in the human brain, its really what sets us apart from animals. The left brain really just keeps a balance of creativity and reality. In other words we be like super hippies if it werent for that other half of the brain smacking us with a yard stick.

[Red Kittie Kat]

Ok I am really beginning to be concerned for myself :D

MINE doesn't work!! lmao

[DonnaL]

I'm guessing like the Angel on one shoulder/devil on the other.....

I tried searching for a photo of this documentary I saw years ago about a boy who was missing half his head... one side of his head was fully concaved *from an accident*... they did reconstructive surgery to fill it in and make his head more whole so-to-speak... this kid was amazing! fully functional in everyway... so he musta lost his left half.....

Anyway.. can't find it... *shrugs*

[Drorain]

depends on the question really, some of them people are just being intellectually lazy, asking questions that are more out of a textbook than on the job situations. Students need to know how to search, if that fails then they should post. I understand what you mean as a rant, but it can't be a blanket statement really. If someone wants to ask something annoying like MAC or PC or something as bad as that, then I'll point to search. Otherwise you might be right, specific questions can use specific answers, in turn I ask the poster doesn't post a vague request.

[AlexNJ210]

I'm guessing like the Angel on one shoulder/devil on the other.....

I tried searching for a photo of this documentary I saw years ago about a boy who was missing half his head... one side of his head was fully concaved *from an accident*... they did reconstructive surgery to fill it in and make his head more whole so-to-speak... this kid was amazing! fully functional in everyway... so he musta lost his left half.....

Anyway.. can't find it... *shrugs*

they did a story about that kid on the discovery channel, i saw that too. Amazing. Kim Peek, (the real Rain Man) actually can use both sides of his brain separately. I saw a documentary on him that said he reads books so quickly because he reads both pages at the same time!! One page with each eye, i can't even begin to imagine how to do that. On top of that he retains about 98% of what he reads.

[budafist]

How many ways can you flog a dead horse?

[Craig B]

http://www.steveaddison.net/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/flogging%20dead%20horse.jpg

[Ned]

This is basically just a rant.

We are all aware that every forum has a search utility, and, most of the time it will solve our problems. HOWEVER, in the time it takes some of you to post your "try the search" you probably could've just answered the question and been done with it. My point is this. I've been perusing through the forums looking at what may seem to be an interesting thread, until you read the "try the search" post.

WE KNOW HOW TO SEARCH. but most of the time our questions are specific to our example, so the search does no good, or we don't want to spend hours searching. I enjoy this forum, although not here regularly, but it really dampers things when your looking for a simple answer to a simple question and the BOOM the "try searching" post pops up. please people...

This topic has already been thorougly deliberated on this board. Please use the search function of this forum to find previous discussions, before creating a new thread.

Thank you.

[cornfed]

bwwaaaaahaaaaa!

Jibble, honestly, if you had a question, I wouldn't bother replying simply because you've come right out and expressed your laziness. Whats wrong with doing a quick search? If you don't find what you're looking for, then post the question. You might even state that you've used the search function and not found what you're looking for. That would impress the brainiacs on the board and make them want to share their knowledge with you.

[budafist]

^^ What she said. You paddle with an oar. You don't go stirring the lake with it... :rolleyes: :p

Unless of course a truck carrying a full load of jelly crystals had just drove into the lake. Then you stir.

[Ned]

Yum. Jelly with Anchovies.

[frankster]

There will only be anchovies if it is a salt water lake and salty jelly sounds rank. Bleugh.

[Seapony]

There will only be anchovies if it is a salt water lake and salty jelly sounds rank. Bleugh.

LMAO...we can henceforth easily find this thread in the future by using the keywords, "LOVE THIS THREAD"

You're all welcome, btw.

:D

[carter the artist]

and i think we lost another one to our sarcasm...

[urstwile]

LMAO...we can henceforth easily find this thread in the future by using the keywords, "LOVE THIS THREAD"

You're all welcome, btw.

:D
Or not (http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=%22LOVE+THIS+THREAD%22+site:graphicdesignforum.c om&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8) ;)

[Red Kittie Kat]

lmao Urst :D Well done ;)

[urstwile]

Apparently, it's on Google's search results now (it wasn't when I first tried), so I stand corrected. :)

By the way, can I presume everyone knows that Google search trick?

"search term" site:siteyouwanttosearch.com

[Tea]

Apparently, it's on Google's search results now (it wasn't when I first tried), so I stand corrected. :)

By the way, can I presume everyone knows that Google search trick?

"search term" site:siteyouwanttosearch.com


I didn't know that. But, I'm still in my learning everything before I die phase, so I might have missed that. What other google tricks to you have?

[urstwile]

LOL, Tea.

I don't know any others off the top of my head, although I know there are a bunch of other tricks. This is the one I use the most frequently.

[hewligan]

On the right of the google search box is an advanced search link, which takes you to this page (http://www.google.co.nz/advanced_search?hl=en), which will allow you to do all kinds of fancy google searches.

[Tea]

thanks Hewligan...I did know about it, just rarely use it, but maybe I should. I do use Froogle, Googles compare prices occasionally and I know that you can put in mathematical stuff and get equivalents for example.

Now, I just accidentally hit the delete button when using Firefox on a google page and it sent me back a page. Now that was weird.

[hewligan]

Another of my favourite google tricks is that it does unit and currency conversions. So, when someone types 8.5 inches, and I think: 'Hmm, inches mean nothing to me,' I type into google '8.5 inches in mm,' and get '8.5 inches = 215.9 millimeters.'

[urstwile]

Ooh, yeah, I love the unit conversion thing, I use it all the time. :)

[budafist]

Another of my favourite google tricks is that it does unit and currency conversions. So, when someone types 8.5 inches, and I think: 'Hmm, inches mean nothing to me,' I type into google '8.5 inches in mm,' and get '8.5 inches = 215.9 millimeters.'

That's cool. Didn't know that.

What's the formula for currency conversion? Can't get it to work for m.

It will be something so simple that I look like a fool won't it?

[hewligan]

'10 new zealand dollars in us dollars' gives '10 New Zealand dollars = 7.71800 U.S. dollars'

[budafist]

Cool. I was trying $5NZ = $US or combinations of that which didn't work so well.

[Seapony]

Or not (http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=%22LOVE+THIS+THREAD%22+site:graphicdesignforum.c om&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8) ;)

Darn the power of that Caturday thread...

:D

[hewligan]

Cool. I was trying $5NZ = $US or combinations of that which didn't work so well.

Yeah, it seems to work with words. Symbols, not so much.

[chalsema]

I like to use Google as a spell checker and a calculator... have you seen this mathematical equation on google? number of horns on a unicorn (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=GGGL%2CGGGL%3A2006-39%2CGGGL%3Aen&q=number+of+horns+on+a+unicorn&btnG=Search)

[LeftBrain Artist]

Speaking of the Google...


Google Launches 'The Google' For Older Adults

MOUNTAIN VIEW, CA—The popular search engine Google announced plans Friday to launch a new site, TheGoogle.com, to appeal to older adults not able to navigate the original website's single text field and two clearly marked buttons.

"The Google will have all the same information currently found on regular Google, but with the added features of not stealing your credit-card numbers or giving your computer all kinds of viruses," said Rick Tillich, The Google project director. "All you have to do to turn the website on is put the little blinking line thing in the cyberspace window at the top of the screen, type 'thegoogle.com,' and press 'return'—although it will also recognize http.wwwthegoogle.com, google.aol, and 'THEGOOGLE' typed into a Word document."

Tillich added that he hopes the site will soon replace Yahoo Internet Website.com as the most popular search engine for users over 55.

[The_Black_Knight]

Speaking of the Google...Yes, but does it keep those damn kids off your lawn for you?

[LeftBrain Artist]

Those kids are animals, I tell you. Animals.