Left brain or right?

[Broacher]

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,22556678-23272,00.html


Tres cool.

Try viewing it peripherally if you're having trouble reversing the spin.

[Jackimalyn]

what does it mean if as i watch her she changes????

[Exodus]

I saw clockwise first but was able to reverse it with no trouble. Very cool find!

[morea]

what does it mean if as i watch her she changes????

That happened to me, too.

[Craig B]

Okay, maybe I'm some sort of freak, but all I see is clockwise and no matter what else I try that's all I see.

[Tsmalldon]

What If You Cant See Her Moving At All!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Exodus]

Okay, maybe I'm some sort of freak, but all I see is clockwise and no matter what else I try that's all I see.
Try looking away and thinking of something logical, then look again.

[Tsmalldon]

I see both, clockwise and counter clockwise Changes as I watch

[Broacher]

Craig, that's what I had too for the longest time. Try squinting-- a lot! And relax. Then slowly open your lids.

I wonder if the little 'hop' she does on that Web 2.0 floor has anything to do with the strength of this effect?

Or the fact that she appears to be nekked (that one engaged my reptillian brain very quickly).

[Kool]

What does it mean if you keep staring at her really nice boobies and forget what you were supposed to be noticing?

[CkretAjint]

LOL... I am sooo left brained!

[Craig B]

Okay, I FINALLY saw it go counter clockwise, but someone had to visually force me too.

[chalsema]

Okay, maybe I'm some sort of freak, but all I see is clockwise and no matter what else I try that's all I see.
Me too... I just can't see counter clockwise.

[CkretAjint]

This is so cool. I actually just did a Tshirt design for a client that is left brained/right brained based!!!

[Virgo Nightingale]

I see it moving clockwise. For a split moment, I saw it go counter, but as soon as I blinked, she was clockwise again. I can't seem to make myself see it counter.

[urstwile]

I had the same result as Jacki and Morea. She changes from counter-clockwise to clockwise while I'm watching. No squinting required.

[balou]

I saw counter first then moved my eyes to read the explanation and when I went back she was going clockwise. Seemed like everytime I read some more, she would switch directions. Freaky.

[Jackimalyn]

lets get LBA in here and test out his alias

[Broacher]

Dang. Now the only thing I can focus on is how she doesn't jiggle.

Left BRAIN. Right brain. Left brain. Right boob. I mean, brain, brain.

[MD]

Huh - I saw it going counter clockwise first and had a tough time making it reverse.

In the last 2 days I have found out that I am Republican and Left Brained. Whoda Thunkit?

[Red Kittie Kat]

I only see clockwise ... I stared for a while and the motion never changed lol ;)

[nyc_skater]

Okay, maybe I'm some sort of freak, but all I see is clockwise and no matter what else I try that's all I see.

jeez, same here..I try and try and i can't see her the other way...just clockwise!

[Craig B]

The only advice I have 9as someone that it took a long time to see counter clockwise) is too stare at the shadow for a while (a good 20 or more seconds if you have to) and try to focus on the shadow going counter clockwise and then slowly move your eyes to focus up on the figure.

Even then, it's very difficult for me to occasionally get to see counter clockwise.

[Broacher]

Squint, squint a lot, and look sideways.

(That's something we guys practiced a lot with naked women when we were teenagers.)

[Red Kittie Kat]

I squinted, stared, turned sideways and stood on my head ..... she is still clockwise :D

[Craig B]

Did you try the shadow technique kittie?

[DonnaL]

clockwise... clockwise... clockwise... count... nup! clockwise... clockwise... clockwise....

*bangs head*

counterclockwise...... *kidding*

Can't see the counter part.......

[Red Kittie Kat]

Did you try the shadow technique kittie?



I did .. but the shadow is moving clockwise for me as well ... apparently I have no left side to my brain .... that explains a lot :D

[Craig B]

I don't know if I explained myself well.

basically watch the shadow and start to think "front", "behind", "front", "behind" ... start trying to imagine the shadow rotating counter because there's less "extra data" to process (no boobs, hair, etc.).

Does that help. Even then, I can only manage it every now and then. It's still insanely difficult to not see it moving clockwise.

[DonnaL]

Even out of my periphial vision it's clockwise....

Kittie, yep! Shadow goes clockwise for me too... *shrugs*

[Red Kittie Kat]

I tried that too .. my brain will just not focus on anything but clockwise .. I just stared at it for 2 solid minutes ... nothing but clockwise :confused:

[reuber1]

Should we be nervous that we are trying to force ourselves to see it go clockwise (which I absolutely cannot) so we can be self-admitted right-brainers?

[double A-ron]

Counterclockwise for me and no matter what I do I can't get it to go clockwise, I can get to to slow done like it's going to almost stop and switch directions, but then it just speeds back up.

[hewligan]

At first I thought she was going anticlockwise, but that was first thing in the morning, and it turned out I was just confused about which way clockwise was... So, actually, she was going clockwise. I could make her go anticlockwise using Craig's method, though. I found it helped to scroll down the window, so I could only really see the shadow, and when that reversed, scroll back up to see the dancer going the other way.

[Mynock]

I don't know what direction she was spinning, but I do know what type of dancer she is.

[MD]

Should we be nervous that we are trying to force ourselves to see it go clockwise (which I absolutely cannot) so we can be self-admitted right-brainers?

I am surprised so many GDFers are having difficulty with this. Now because I can see both directions .... does that make me a whole brained thinker? That could explain why I am so profoundly wise.

[Red Kittie Kat]

I guess that makes me a half wit :D

[MD]

I don't know what direction she was spinning, but I do know what type of dancer she is.

I have 2 questions for you Mynock.
Why do you know this?
Can she do more push ups than your dad?

[Virgo Nightingale]

And if she doesn't twirl at all, is it a no-brainer?

[AlexNJ210]

haha, yea im a clockwise guy, but i didnt have much trouble getting her to go the other way, it seems im a balanced brain person....if that means anything, maybe it means i fight with myself unconsciously????? who knows, but i see clockwise FIRST every time, i think thats the result that counts, first impression. I wonder what a person with ADD would see????

[Virgo Nightingale]

i didnt have much trouble getting her to go the other way
http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/innocent/innocent0009.gif

[Danger_Mouse]

I saw her go both ways while I watched.

(man I wish I could say that about most women).

I'm with Kool, who gives a rats ass which way she is turning, look at those perkies!

[AlexNJ210]

http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/innocent/innocent0009.gif

Shut up!! LMFAO!!

[Red Kittie Kat]

You guys :D

[DonnaL]

I wonder what a person with ADD would see????

Cartwheels?

[Mynock]

Why do you know this?How was it put "perkies"?
Can she do more push ups than your dad?She has arms doesn't she?

[Red Kittie Kat]

lmao Mynock :D

[budafist]

I absolutely can not get her to spin the other way. Therefore, I think you all are having me on.

[MD]

Is it safe to assume that you are a "patron of the arts" then Mynock?

http://www.munic.state.ct.us/BURLINGTON/us_one_dollar_bill/us_dollar_front.gif

[AlexNJ210]

I absolutely can not get her to spin the other way. Therefore, I think you all are having me on.

awwww, poor half-brainer. :p

[John G]

i can't get it to go counter clockwise >.<


wait

wait


almost





if I scroll down to where I can only see the shadow... i can start to see it the other way, then slowly scroll up. But it doesn't take much to flip back

[Mynock]

MD, I'm now calling the secret service. You're running counterfiets.

[MD]

Get me for illegal gambling too ... because I bet you $20 I could print that out and pass it off to the morons at my local mcdonalds.

J/K agents of the secret service please don't arrest me! I have no intention of passing fake currency and will probably become it if I am sent to prison.

[budafist]

awwww, poor half-brainer. :p

The other half must be lost with my marbles.

[DonnaL]

I have a marble in my pocket... could it be one of yours budafist?

[budafist]

*sniffs*

That's no marble! That be a goat poo!

[AlexNJ210]

yyyyyyyyyyyep, shes definitely lost a few (if not more) of those marbles.

[DonnaL]

OHHH is that why it's not perfectly round???


*chucks it at the spinning dancer to make it go COUNTER clockwise*

[Craig B]

I still can't believe how many of you fell for the fact that the dancer spins counter clockwise too ...

[AlexNJ210]

you poor misguided, halfbrained soul you.

[Red Kittie Kat]

lmao Craig ;)

she never did for me lol

[Craig B]

you poor misguided, halfbrained soul you.

Ha! I can see both, but 99.9% of the time I see clockwise. I'm fine with being right brained. Better than being ... um ... not right, in the brain ... and stuffs.

[AlexNJ210]

its ok craig, we know how special you are :)

[Craig B]

Oh Alex, you make me laugh long time.

[DonnaL]

Alex... your siggy reminds me of the movie 28 Days *Sandra Bullock*

There's a time that you can share, that you can hold hands and be on the same path...but there's always a fork in the road...at some point...and sometimes you have to go on one part of the fork and they got to go on the other part of the fork...or just down the back part of the fork while you go forward, and they're like...or they got a salad fork and you have one of the big dinner forks and you have longer to go and they're like done...because that's it...they're stuck on a piece of food...or a dessert fork…or like one of those, you know, small little shrimp forks and crab forks and you're trying to get out a crab...they're like that and your over here jumping to the huge serving fork or something like that...or a ladle, you know...

sorry... off topic.........please continue! ;)

[Virgo Nightingale]

I finally got her to spin the other way!!! But it only lasted a little while.

[AlexNJ210]

haha....um ok?

[Broacher]

I did a little more experimenting with this tonight and I've come up with some interesting observations.

If you're a right-brain clockwiser (like me), try thinking of some math problem (as simple as the multiplication tables, or a small square root say) and see if that does it. I found that with a little practice I can now make her switch direction at will -- OR, make her go into a kind of left to right half-twirl without a complete turnaround. After a while, I found that once I could easily 'switch' direction and let it run in that direction for a while, if I tried to divide my observation with internal left/right thinking I could watch the results on the screen. To go the other way--- from counter-clockwise to clockwise, I found that 'think' reciting a poem, or the beginning of a story did the trick.

The other big tip in achieving the 'half-twist' left to right swing step is to focus on the foot/ankle on the ground. If you picture that just swinging back and forth and not rotating, your brain should fill in the rest of the body movement to match.

I'm thinking of making this one a screensaver. It's like a primitive blood flow gauge for brain activity. I'm even starting to think that I can 'detect' the feeling of the switch. Weird, weird, weird. Maybe we really are just moist robots.

[Red Kittie Kat]

Broacher you did it!! That gave me the idea to think of something else.. so I had msn up and was typing and had the animation off to the side ... and out the corner of my eye she switched ... as soon as I looked down at the shadow she went back to clockwise .. but every time I looked away for about 30 seconds she went CCW.

What a relief ... I thought the left side was broken :D

[DonnaL]

WAHOO!!! By george I think I've got it!!

Thanks Broacher!! I picked up my Algebra assignment and looked at an equation and then looked up...... dang! She was going counter clockwise and then I couldn't get her to go back to clockwise.... I sat back... started laughing... and then I blinked... in that instant, she stopped and went in clockwise rotation again.....

*does happy dance*

[budafist]

Had another look and....Oh crap, now she's going clockwise for me and wont go back the other way. It must mean it's time to go home.

[Red Kittie Kat]

lmaoo I feel normal now :D

[frankster]

That's awesomely bizzare! If I look slightly to one side then I can make her switch every half a turn, so she looks like she's swaying back and forth rather than turning. Freakydeaky!

[Red Kittie Kat]

I know! I really said Yay!! she moved!! .. out loud ... I was so excited :D

[Broacher]

To do the half turn thing, I found it helped to focus on that bottom ankle.

(Of course, for a guy, that goes against most laws of nature.)

Once you've mastered the 'half-turn' I find you can pretty quickly get to the point where you can just make her turn at will. You know... two turns to the left, one right, left, half-turn. And so on.

Another interesting thing I discovered is to try and change the direction through internal mental task selection. For instance, thinking about a math problem, or back to a nursery rhyme.

The freaky apart about this 'illusion' is that it really brings home just how much we really 'think' we see is determined about how much we really think. That what we know as 'reality' is actually a mental model, an interpretation of actual 'stuff' --and this thing is kind of like a programmer's cheat code that reveals some of the inner processing that goes on in the operating system.

[reuber1]

To do the half turn thing, I found it helped to focus on that bottom ankle.

(Of course, for a guy, that goes against most laws of nature.)

What if I have an ankle fetish? Am I in the clear?

[LeftBrain Artist]

How did I miss this one? Started counter clockwise, but if I look away and look back I can change it. If you can change it while looking, though, I think it means you're psychotic. Is that one of the girls from the internet mortgage ads, or the ipod commercials?

[Craig B]

well of course LBA can see it go counter clockwise ...

;)

[frankster]

How did I miss this one? Started counter clockwise, but if I look away and look back I can change it. If you can change it while looking, though, I think it means you're psychotic. Is that one of the girls from the internet mortgage ads, or the ipod commercials?

I don't "think" I'm psychotic darling.

[AlexNJ210]

I don't "think" I'm psychotic darling.

If you were pyschotic, how would you know unless someone told you? :)

[frankster]

If you were pyschotic, how would you know unless someone told you? :)

<sobbing>
I DON'T KNOW! STOP CONFUSING ME!
</sobbing>

<angry>
DON'T MAKE ME GET THE AXE! MR CHOPPY WOULDN'T LIKE THAT!</angry>

<softly>
and who would clean up the mess?
</softly>

[AlexNJ210]

im beginning to fear one of my e-wives quite intensely at the moment.

[PrintDriver]

Ok, I have a question. What is she really doing? Is the girl really spinning at all?

Like the little dog that used to be on the old Fetch program where you thought he was wagging his tail but it was really only dots going up and down....

[AlexNJ210]

Yes she's spining, Its just that the lack of refrence points for which direction leads the brain to "create" them for you. Ergo, one side of the brain or the other (which-ever is dominant in you) takes over in this operation. It gives a clue to which side of your brain is programed to tackle a problem.

[AlexNJ210]

this happens on the highway, remember when you were a little kid, and you watched cars wheels next to you and at a certain speed it looks like the wheels are spining backwards. Same sort of a trick of the eye. The truth about seeing and believing is that their are lots of things that are quicker than your eye and and even greater amount quicker than your perceptions.

[frankster]

It's not really the same though is it Alex. The wheel spinning backwards effect (turntable calibration dots too) is down to the speed at which your body can process frames and you taking the output to be literally the truth, but the spinning lady is sort of the opposite, where you are given limited visual information and your brain assumes a whole load of extra information in order to make sense of it.

[AlexNJ210]

well, my point is that your brain tries to catch up with what its seening and what you are seeing is not actually happening but a twist of perceptions. Its just an analogy thats not intended to be directly correlated my dear. But i appreciate your dialogue in the matter. Intelectual/scientific conversations are intriguing at times. And you are absolutely correct in what you said, well put i might add. *eyes darting left and right praying the fire axe isn't around*

[Virgo Nightingale]

Regardless of how she turns, she's still quite perky I might say.

[morea]

there is no rotation, only Zuel. :D

[AlexNJ210]

Regardless of how she turns, she's still quite perky I might say.

i'd say cutting glass......but thats just me. ;)

[Virgo Nightingale]

^^I'd have to agree. I'm not that perky unless I'm standing outside naked in a blizzard.

[frankster]

And you are absolutely correct in what you said, well put i might add. *eyes darting left and right praying the fire axe isn't around*

You're ok, the axe is in another thread at the moment. I just think that the spinning lady is far more exciting because it shows how awesome the pattern recognition machines in our head are, rather than the spinning wheel, which just serves to show us how our understanding is limited by our body, maaaaan.

[AlexNJ210]

you're so beautiful when you're smart *gazes starry-eyed*

[AlexNJ210]

^^I'd have to agree. I'm not that perky unless I'm standing outside naked in a blizzard.

Prove it......pictures from past reference would suffice. :D

[morea]

what goes up... must come down
spinning wheel spinning round
talk about your troubles, it's a crying sin
ride a painted pony, let the spinning wheel spin!


wheeeee!!!!!!

[AlexNJ210]

what goes up... must come down
spinning wheel spinning round
talk about your troubles, it's a crying sin
ride a painted pony, let the spinning wheel spin!


wheeeee!!!!!!


look everybody!!!!

*surfer voice* Morea's WASTEEEEED!!!!

[morea]

not wasted, lol. I just reallllllly enjoyed my wine tonight.
It's made out of fruit, so it's good for you. :p

[AlexNJ210]

sangrrrrria???

(is wine ever NOT made from fruit?)

[Virgo Nightingale]

Rum is made of sugar... and it's only has 60 calories per serving... so if you have a rum and diet cola, it's only like 60 calores, that's good. Except my "waste nothing" attitude is forcing me to drink the bottle of regular soda my boyfriend opened, so maybe it's not so good. Oh well, I tried.

[morea]

(is wine ever NOT made from fruit?)

listen here young man (cause you're bound to be younger than me... I'm in the double digits for heavens sakes!).. don't you be posting in pastel colors if you're expecting an answer on a friday night. The answer is a definite maybe, but I am not working the google so well tonight, so I can't tell you for sure!

[AlexNJ210]

Rum is made of sugar... and it's only has 60 calories per serving... so if you have a rum and diet cola, it's only like 60 calores, that's good. Except my "waste nothing" attitude is forcing me to drink the bottle of regular soda my boyfriend opened, so maybe it's not so good. Oh well, I tried.

don't beat yourself up about it, its alright. *pats back* you work very hard, no need to put this extra pressure on yourself. ;)

[Virgo Nightingale]

But hey, if I drink enough I can drink all the regular cola and move on to the bottle of diet! That makes it all worth it! I'll eventually be drinking 60 calorie drinks! My logic totally isn't flawed in the least bit whatsoever. :D

[AlexNJ210]

listen here young man (cause you're bound to be younger than me... I'm in the double digits for heavens sakes!).. don't you be posting in pastel colors if you're expecting an answer on a friday night. The answer is a definite maybe, but I am not working the google so well tonight, so I can't tell you for sure!

I am younger.....or am i *evil eyes*. I TRIED to be quiet about it but i hurtz teh feelinz of deh modurator lady. I iz sry.

[morea]

d'oh. I are old now. http://i17.tinypic.com/4ktkyo5.png
Dis should make me wiser, but I am not thinking so. lol

[Virgo Nightingale]

Don't worry mo. I'm even older than you are. ;)

[morea]

lol... but I think that's hot. :D

[Virgo Nightingale]

Ooooo!!! I'm hot!!!

*touches asscheek with forefinger----ssssssssssssssssss!!!!!*

[AlexNJ210]

*also touches asscheek with forefinger*

*whistling*

[Virgo Nightingale]

*SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSs*

Don't burn yourself there, cowboy! ;)

Wait, who's asscheek are ya touching? :confused:

[AlexNJ210]

not telling teehee.:D

[MyST]

I'm only gonna say this once. Get your hand off my...
That's better!

[Virgo Nightingale]

roffle!! :D

[AlexNJ210]

I'm only gonna say this once. Get your hand off my...
That's better!

You should be so lucky....hmmphhh.

[Virgo Nightingale]

Hey! Maybe he was talking to me... :p

[morea]

like any man in his right mind would demand that you unhand him, Virgo.
Nice cover, though. I am sure that MyST appreciates it. :D

[Virgo Nightingale]

Hey, I'm hot and all, but even I have been turned down before... :(

[morea]

pshaw. They musta been blind or somefing... with no sense of humor.

Their loss. ;)

[Red Kittie Kat]

geez ... sleep for a littlle while and look at all I miss ;)


... btw I'm older than all of ya :D

[Broacher]

... btw I'm older than all of ya :D

Speak for yerself, kitten.

(Wish I could say 'wiser too' but at my age I'll settle for lower car insurance premiums.)

[Red Kittie Kat]

lol Broacher .. I found that a pleasing surprise with older age as well ;)

[reuber1]

CLOCKWISE!!! FINALLY!!!

About time. Now it's easy to see it. I started twirling my finger clockwise in front of the screen and it just happened.

[Virgo Nightingale]

CLOCKWISE!!! FINALLY!!!

About time. Now it's easy to see it. I started twirling my finger clockwise in front of the screen and it just happened.
I tried that. Didn't work for me. :rolleyes:

[reuber1]

So does anybody know the science behind this, or how they based their conclusions on this (or who came up with this exercise)?

[LeftBrain Artist]

So does anybody know the science behind this, or how they based their conclusions on this (or who came up with this exercise)?

Well, I've been playing it back, freezing it at intervals to examine the silhouette, and from what I see there's a key frame where it can be perceived as either facing away from or towards you. The straight leg, however is unbroken in its contour, whereas the outstretched leg has a barely perceptible white hairline from the straight leg interrupting its contour - this line starts at the top of the leg and extends down only a smidge, but its enough to make the brain perceive the straight leg being in front, which causes you to see the dancer facing away from you. This key frame is with the outstretched leg on the right side, so if she's facing away from you, swinging from right to left sets up a counterclockwise spin - and if she's facing towards you it appears to go clockwise. So really, that barely perceptible hairline subliminally causes you to see it spinning counterclockwise, as long as your mind is in a somewhat rational, logic state. To see it go clockwise, you're subconciously suspending the laws of physics and reality and creating your own little world where you get to play god - you're clearly clinically insane. Or at least, that's my theory.

I'm sure some hippies came up with this at a drum circle whilst they staggered from bong hit to bong hit; singing "You spin me right round, baby, right round, like a record, baby, right round, baby right round" or however it goes. Bravo. Time well spent. Why cure cancer or AIDS when we've got critical issues like this to address?

[Broacher]

It was a popular 'still' illusion for years. Many figure silhouettes exhibit this ambiguity of front or back view. Your brain is just filling in the information hole to maintain a reasonable reality (ironically, animation itself, is of course, an illusion) and popping your circuit breakers.

[mattbing]

I think it's BS. It also changed for me as well, there's no disputing that it turns both ways, it's just randomized with flash. I actually saw it change.

[chalsema]

I think it's BS. It also changed for me as well, there's no disputing that it turns both ways, it's just randomized with flash. I actually saw it change.
I still can't get it to switch no matter how many times I try or for how long I stare it it...

[budafist]

I don't think it randomly spins both directions. The first time I looked I looked for a very long time and it would only spin one way.

[reuber1]

I don't think it randomly spins both directions. The first time I looked I looked for a very long time and it would only spin one way.
I was looking at it with someone else, and when they insisted it changed directions, it was still going the same way with me.

[chalsema]

I was looking at it with someone else, and when they insisted it changed directions, it was still going the same way with me.
Same here. My husband said he could make it spin whichever direction he wanted, but I was watching it at the same time and I still couldn't make it switch.

[Red Kittie Kat]

I think it's BS. It also changed for me as well, there's no disputing that it turns both ways, it's just randomized with flash. I actually saw it change.



It's like the magic eye .. some people can just never see it.

It took ages for me to see it spin ccw. I had to look at it from the corner of my eye .. if it was purposely changing direction randomly I would have seen it when others posted they saw it change. A lot of us were watching it at the exact same time .. some saw it one way, others saw it the other way and still others saw it change mid turn.

[Seapony]

I can make her dance.

Spin this way...now spin that way...reverse...wheeeee!! :D

Took a little bit to see it turn counter clockwise at first but now it's easy peasey. And until then I also believed that it did in fact almost imperceptibly change direction.

Good way to get the brain used to a direction change is to cover the body up to the shins thereabouts and then focus on the reflection. It's easier to envision is changing direction that way and when you do, pull your hand away to see the whole silhouette and voila. I don't even bother covering the body anymore. I have my doubts that it's a valid "left/right hemisphere" test but it does say something about the human mind (although what is anyone's guess). I do note that I in a way trained my brain to see both ways without a hitch.

I also wasted a few hours to google around to see if anyone has debunked it by pulling it apart. Although there is a difference of opinion, I didn't really find any empirical data to support the changing direction theory. Still, someone with time on their hands may surface yet.

:)

[mattbing]

It's a total scam. I actually took a screen video and played it, scrubbed it and slowed it down. And the one I captured is moving clockwise. I'll upload it later so everyone can see.

[Kool]

A scam?

Were you able to capture it changing direction mechanically? My wife and I were looking at it at the same time and both seeing it going different directions, I'm not sure how flash could pull that off. :)

[mattbing]

yeah I have it and can stop action it and it's def going clockwise.

[hewligan]

Why would they fake a well known optical illusion (http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php?p=27)? Seems like it would be less effort just to use said optical illusion.

[mattbing]

Welllllll I will be dammed! It really is an illusion. Even playing it frame by frame it switches directions. That is wild, wild stuff.

Check it out here if you want to slow it down:
http://switch-design.com/temporary/opticalIllusion.mov

[urstwile]

It's more interesting to me that people are so focused on classifying themselves as one or the other. When did the right brain/left brain thing become so important?

Yeah, I played along as well, I admit it. We're all so focused on using these simple tests to "figure ourselves out". But in hindsight, really people, don't we all already know if we're what these tests end up telling us about who we are?

[Ovaltine]

Ahh, but it's great for figuring out a kid, who doesn't necessarily know yet.

I had my 8 year old and my 5 year old look at it (at the same time) with out reading the info about right and left brained stuff.

The 8 year old saw it spinning counter, which makes sense, he's the science/math/reading wiz, also the one who skipped 2nd grade.

The 5 year old saw it spinning clockwise, he's our creative/daydreamy/artist who was more than happy to spend another year in kindergarten this year.

I was able to get the older one to see it both ways eventually, but the younger one could not make it go a diff. direction.

[urstwile]

But didn't you already know that stuff before they took the "test" Ovaltine?

I guess my point is that these tests are an easy way to pigeonhole, I resist those kinds of categorizations. What if your math oriented one wanted to write a poem, or the dreamy one could solve a math problem? I think the need to pigeonhole people into a "type" is kind of noxious. Then again, I'm a bit of a rebel about that stuff.

[Ovaltine]

Yes, I already knew, but I'm a well educated adult.

The older one does do poetry. The younger, has no intrest in math.

I don't think of it as a way to pieonhole my kids (though some people might be tempted to do so), but a way to better understand them. Understanding that the younger one thinks a different way gives me the tools I need to help him unlock all of his potential.

Not everyone learns the same way, that's one of the problems with some schools. They try to teach all the kids using the same methods. It doesn't work well to do that. Better to know where a kid is coming from in order to lead him/her where they need to be.

My mother learned this years ago when she was teaching math. Because the kids were taught WHY math works the way it does rather than "just because", they understood and were able to apply it to their lives.

Does that make any sense?

[urstwile]

Makes perfect sense, Ovaltine, and for the record, I don't have kids, so I applaud you on wanting to know your kids better, in whatever way you can. But...

I'm responding based on a feeling I've always had that I've been pegged into something, based on what people classify as "who I am", so I guess I'm persnickety about that.

I once overheard a conversation between my mom and dad labeling me as analytical (not a wrong call), but further discussion on their part seemed to preclude me from being anything else BUT analytical.

I just find that these tests can be limiting, so I resist their analysis (and so, I analyze them, LOL), because I don't think anyone should be so analyzed to the point that they feel themselves defined.

I hope THAT makes sense. ;)

[Ovaltine]

Makes perfect sense.

I don't know how much people have tried to analize me (I don't particularly care what other's opinions of me are, so maybe I just don't notice). Those who know me understand that I am a kind person, but not a push-over. I'm analytical and a perfectionist on some things (my work), but totally lacadaysical and lax on others (my yard/dishes).

I baffle many people, and I don't know (really) why. I'm just me, and for some reason the fact that I'm an artist who enjoys math confuses people. But the smart ones come to love that about me. :)

[urstwile]

Indeed! I couldn't have put it better myself.

Like you, I don't care much about what others think about me, but as a young teenager, it's easy to take the classifications and opinions people have about you seriously. Of course, if you're a rebel soul, the way I was, you fight it, but I wonder sometimes how much these types of test really put people in a place where they are limited, at least psychologically?

The 70's saw the advent of books like "My Erroneous Zones" and such, so maybe I'm too much of a hippie or something, but I often find these tests to be overly intent on classifying people into some kind of niche that's meaningless at best, rather than being helpful.

Way to derail what started off as a fun thread, huh? :D

[Ovaltine]

I've noticed that almost every thread that goes on this long tends to change topics partially if not entirely.

I was born mid 70's so I don't really remember much of them, but did do several classification type things in middle and high school. Found them only mildly helpful since I am not easily classified (happens when you use your whole brain equally and not just part of it). I fould the tests helped me better understand and relate to others more than myself. Helped me see things through other people's eyes so-to-speak making it easier for me to explain things to them.

Have found this skill helpful even in the workplace. Sometimes I'll sit back in a meeting and listen to the other people talking. They'll essentially be saying the same thing, but thinking they're disagreeing because they aren't taking the time to listen. I'll get tired of the agrument, and explain the problem/solution in terms that both parties understand. Everybody's happy and friends again.

[urstwile]

Yes, threads do derail, I agree. :)

I was born in the late 50's. In my recollection, people didn't analyze themselves as much as they do now, with the "what's your personality type" tests.

[Ovaltine]

I don't know. The girls did.

While cleaning out some of my mom's old stuff (she was born early 50's) we came across a project she did in home ec. It was quite insulting the way the teacher had her analize what she ate, what she needed to eat not to be so "fat" (my mother was never overweight 'till she had kids), what she should wear, how she should wash her face so she would't have zits.

It's hard to remember all the stuff in that project, but I remember commenting to my mom how sexist and way over-analytical it all seemed, especially given how insecure girls are at that age anyway.

[frankster]

I spent most of my preteen and teen years feeling pushed and pulled between science and art. Everyone told me that I had to choose, so I chose science because they all told me I would regret it if I didn't. Turns out I need both. I'm not bitter about the pushing in the end, because it would have been harder for me to do both if I had chosen art in the first place, but it's given me an insight into what I don't want to do to my kids.

[urstwile]

I don't know. The girls did.

While cleaning out some of my mom's old stuff (she was born early 50's) we came across a project she did in home ec. It was quite insulting the way the teacher had her analize what she ate, what she needed to eat not to be so "fat" (my mother was never overweight 'till she had kids), what she should wear, how she should wash her face so she would't have zits.

It's hard to remember all the stuff in that project, but I remember commenting to my mom how sexist and way over-analytical it all seemed, especially given how insecure girls are at that age anyway.
Oh, well, yeah, in terms of physical appearance, yes, they did analyze everything. I guess I'm thinking more of the personality cages we seem to want to put ourselves into by taking these tests. I guess it's just a bugaboo for me.

[Broacher]

I spent most of my preteen and teen years feeling pushed and pulled between science and art. Everyone told me that I had to choose, so I chose science because they all told me I would regret it if I didn't. Turns out I need both. I'm not bitter about the pushing in the end, because it would have been harder for me to do both if I had chosen art in the first place, but it's given me an insight into what I don't want to do to my kids.

Soul sister! I was a geekus extremus in school. Art and literature were more just pleasant diversions from the task of learning how the world really works (even though I was very good at it).

But what shook me when I was entering the final decision year was when I first realized just how professionally narrow a research career could commonly be. Did I want to spend my life studying the bowel irritation of fruitflies? Um, not really. See, I wasn't obsessed about any particular science, I wanted to learn, and discover, just about how everything tied together, how it worked.

Unfortunately, that 'wholistic' view of science kind of disappeared shortly after Archimedes, so I resolved to see how far art, which seemed so much more 'open' (at the time) would take me. Looking back, I can see that I wasn't the only one who had suddenly become disillusioned with science. I think it's a challenge for science to keep itself interesting to the young, easily distracted minds out there. There is a lot of bureaucracy behind all those discovery papers. A lot of politics. (Something I've since had confirmed by my next youngest brother who DID become a scientist). It's easy to lose faith. It's easy to feel unbalanced.

That said, too far into the right hemisphere can have similarly depressing results. The self-absorption and accompanying self-delusional level of many of the fine artist people I met seemed no different from many of the scientists I had talked too. And it all seemed so political, narrow, inbred-- in short, too unreal and elitist. But that's what making a career out of being genuinely 'smart' is all about.

Graphic design seemed to offer a nice alternative career. Technology PLUS creativity. AND, almost by definition: the need to keep in touch with the 'everyman' mentality.

The most attractive thing about it though was that it didn't seem to shy away from recognizing talent in whatever form. Or maybe, just not as much. Plus, I could get started with just a few hundred dollars of easy to carry art tools. Or so I thought. And, apparently, so did tens of thousands of others.

As far as my own kids, I fight with myself over what to say or respond to them when they come looking for career planning advice. My daughter is entering university next year. I see a lot of me in her. She's very gifted creatively, loves working with her hands with materials and tools. She's also very good at expressing and defending herself in discussion. But in a way, she's the opposite from the science/art split.

She sees science/math as a boring, but necessary source of knowledge and career ops. She scores in the tops of all her science classes, but she's never really had that 'burn' for what science can provide. On the other hand, when it comes to social sciences, she's read just about everything there is about psychology, behavioural science, brain research, child development etc. that she can find. Suggest that this might be an area she could steer herself into and she resists the idea. Ah well. Seventeen is not an age to decide these things, I figure. I was 21 before I had decided (after four years of manual labour, living on my own, I knew there had to be more!).

[frankster]

But what shook me when I was entering the final decision year was when I first realized just how professionally narrow a research career could commonly be. Did I want to spend my life studying the bowel irritation of fruitflies? Um, not really. See, I wasn't obsessed about any particular science, I wanted to learn, and discover, just about how everything tied together, how it worked.

This is why I felt drawn to physics. It covered so much from the tiniest to the most mind bendingly enormous. It even covers philosophy in places where you cover wave particle duality and the cosmos etc. But post MSc is where I became disillutioned with how specialised the jobs became. Solid state dye lasers just wasn't going to keep me happy for years on end. My husband, who studied biochemistry and bioinfomatics is still torn between acedemia and industry.

Graphic design seemed to offer a nice alternative career. Technology PLUS creativity. AND, almost by definition: the need to keep in touch with the 'everyman' mentality.
That's exactly what made me consider it as a career.
Ah well. Seventeen is not an age to decide these things, I figure.
Your daughter is in the right country to have her choices not narrowed too early. It's nice to see that even at university people still have to have minor subjects. In the UK when I was studying you chose between 9 and 12 subjects to study at 13 to 15 years old and then at 15 to 17 you chose just three or four. I chose maths, chemistry, physics and art. This means that you have to have a good idea as to what you want to study at university by the time you are 15! and if you want to go into science then you have to be sure by 13, so that you don't take the reduced science options in the 13-15 year old exams! Things have changed slightly now, so that people who are now 15 to 17 can take up to 6 subjects in thier first year of A levels and then chose three of those 6 to study further in thier second year of A levels.

Most UK universities you only study the one chosen subject, rather than having majors and minors. I took just physics courses, with one or two history of computing/science ones for light relief. Worked out 2 full days of labs and three full days of lectures and tutorials 9-5. Non science degrees have far fewer hours though. One girl studying archeology that I lived with had only 4 hours of lectures a week!!!

[Red Kittie Kat]

This convo has gone way over my little brain :D


I was happy to pass math :D

[chalsema]

I was happy to pass math :D
Me too! I've have trouble with math my whole life. My mom even enrolled me in "math summer camp" after the third grade. Sitting at a desk doing multiplication tables for 4 hours a day isn't exactly the kind of summer camp you want to go to as a kid. :rolleyes:

[Red Kittie Kat]

I would have to agree with that ;)

[MD]

I had to go to summer school a few times to help me with my math incompetence. Luckily we got to play a lot of number munchers.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/89/NumberMunchersScreenshot.jpg

[AlexNJ210]

omg!!!!!!!!!!

dude i haven't seen that game in YEARS!!!!!!!!!!! holy bejesus thats hysterical to see lol!!!!

[Ovaltine]

Haven't seen that since elementry school! I loved that game.