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[calebm12]

Good grief. i could scream. i have gone through tons (like 15 different) logo variations for this client. she selected one and i thought we were done...and now she wants to change the name....in essence making two logos. yes she wants two logos. and i cant figure out how to do it properly.
can you please give some advice...i am frustrated.
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/9480/99344964cb2.th.jpg (http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=99344964cb2.jpg)

[morea]

this isn't going to help you much, unfortunately... but I find the ALL CAPS very hard to read.

[calebm12]

yea i know. these suck. no doubt about it. she just keeps shooting everything back. wants the font all in the same size. i feel tied up.

[Alex Traska]

is she a designer? sensitively and respectfully advise/remind her that she is not a designer and you are and then justify your decisions in lamens terms as to why you want to do things the way you think they'll work best.

Many clients often throw loads of "requirements" at me that are sometimes very bad ideas from a visual point of view. Once I've explained how their ideas will upset the design and then adventured with them how we can still incorporate their ideas but in a more design-friendly manner, they usually come round to my way of thinking.

If a client wants to play a major part in the design (yet doesn't have any design experience) it is important to make them feel like their ideas are being used and respected even though they aren't being followed to the letter.

[calebm12]

Good thoughts there alex.
She has well exceeded her design time on this logo and i think that has me frustrated oh most as much as the fact she has zero direction in what she wants. zero.
ok the pity party is over.
any general design ideas on how to layout a name as long as "America's preforeclosure home solutions"???

[CkretAjint]

Aphs?

[AlexNJ210]

Well, its not going to jump out and grab someone, so just try to make it as workable as possible.

1. bye bye drop shadow DO NOT USE DROP SHADOWS IN IDENTITY OR LOGOS....EVER...(EXCEPT ENTIRELY WEB BASED COMPANIES).

2. Why is the key so elaborate? You can simplify that design and it may enhance its appearance. The overall shape is appealing, all that detail is clutter.

3. HIERARCHY will be your best friend in this design. Approach it from a stand point where you put yourself in the shoes of a client to the company searching for services in this area. THEN emphasize the key words/elements that you would be looking for eg. "preforclosure".

After that its a matter of color which is really subjective in most cases anyway. Of course you would want to find colors that reflect/imply professionalism/dignity and establishment.

hope that helps as my $.02

[CkretAjint]

I completely and whole-heartedly agree with alex. Thanks for making me not have to type all that out! haha :D

[AlexNJ210]

I completely and whole-heartedly agree with alex. Thanks for making me not have to type all that out! haha :D

you are welcome my good lad.:)

[PrintDriver]

1. bye bye drop shadow DO NOT USE DROP SHADOWS IN IDENTITY OR LOGOS....EVER...(EXCEPT ENTIRELY WEB BASED COMPANIES).

Never assume a company will stay web based. You don't know how many times I've had 'web-based' companies come to me looking for signage or banners for a show booth only to be told their super whiz-bang Web 2.0 triple deluxe splashy logo can't be printed any bigger than my coffee cup lid...

[AlexNJ210]

Never assume a company will stay web based. You don't know how many times I've had 'web-based' companies come to me looking for signage or banners for a show booth only to be told their super whiz-bang Web 2.0 triple deluxe splashy logo can't be printed any bigger than my coffee cup lid...

Thats very true. At some point as a company, eve IF it is entirely web-based, the identity has to be printed or displayed outside the net. So sorry for making that blanket statemnet PD. ;)

[Kool]

only to be told their super whiz-bang Web 2.0 triple deluxe splashy logo can't be printed any bigger than my coffee cup lid...

LOL!:D

[double A-ron]

2. Why is the key so elaborate? You can simplify that design and it may enhance its appearance. The overall shape is appealing, all that detail is clutter.

I agree complelely, I look at that key and can't imagine it looking good on a business card (or any other small printed item) at all with all that detail. It needs to be simplified quite a bit IMO.

Also, I know you didn't come up with it, but WTF kind of name is "America's Preforeclosure Home Solutions"? It sounds more like a tagline then a company name.

I'm really glad I'm not working with the client, it sounds like a complete nightmare and client from hell. And if she has indeed exceeded a timeframe that was set, you should tell her, the longer it takes her to make up her mind, then the more it's going to cost her. Hell, at this point, if it were me, I'd be damn tempted to charge her for the work done and tell her to not let the door hit her in the @$$ on the way out, especially if her attitude is poor (is it?).

[icekitty37]

Unfortunately since clients are the ones paying, there is no certain design time to expire. Some clients are easier than others and open to suggestion. Others take 30 revisions before they like it. If you don't have the patience, maybe logo design isn't for you...

[AlexNJ210]

i dont know why thats a bad thing, in a real life sense, thats money in the bank if you structure the contract right.

[PrintDriver]

Yeah, on the contract. This two for one thing is just wrong...

I know my mind is in the gutter for this one but the second key down, on quick glance, the all caps read as a synonym for one's privates parts (avoiding censor). On quick glance... Sorta...

[AlexNJ210]

of course with a comment like THAT kittie and frank show up, who-da thunk it? Na PD you're kinda right now that you say that.

[frankster]

I know my mind is in the gutter for this one but the second key down, on quick glance, the all caps read as a synonym for one's privates parts (avoiding censor). On quick glance... Sorta...

Actually, I remember Tz saying that in the original thread too, so it's not just your dirty mind. ;)

[CkretAjint]

genatalia properties.... LMAO!!! :D

[calebm12]

Thanks for all the responses.
1. She likes the key...despite my push to not use it (though i admit i didnt push so hard cause i was thrilled she picked something)...i can see how it will be difficult in smaller sizes.
2. Can't drop shadows be processed printed? why wouldnt they fit on something bigger than a coffee cup.
3. i learned a valubale lesson with her. my contract said 3 logo concepts...i sent closer to 12. i need to trim them down before sending...
4. i figured out why she has been so difficult. She is not making the decisions. She has hired a "personal coach" for this foreclosure stuff (i am thinking infomercial) and i am guessing this coach is the guide dog.

thanks as always for yalls commments.

c

[Botchup]

2. Can't drop shadows be processed printed? why wouldnt they fit on something bigger than a coffee cup.

They can! The point being implied was that (as an example) most web-based companies pretty much only have their logo as web-size. So when they send them around they are only very small, (and whenever you ask for a hi-res they send you the same file. :rolleyes:)

While they have all the whizz bang effects of a transparent look, or shiny effects, or drop shadows, by time you enlarge their web-logo to fit say even a large poster they are starting to look very unprofessional (read pixellated).

That is all, since you are the designer, I'm sure you can enlarge it to any desired size since you have all the files. (People in the prepress industry however don't, they're only given files the customer has)

[calebm12]

ok....that makes much better sense!
thansk