who has rights to the work, the designer or the client?

[carolyn]

do i have the right to put everything i create in my portfolio? assuming i haven't signed anything prior to making it that is. say hypothetically i work for a company who tends to treat employees very badly when they leave, and if i were to leave i'd be a little afraid they wouldn't want me putting anything i made for them in my portfolio. can they do this?

[CkretAjint]

What's your contract say?

Personally, I see no issue in putting YOUR work you did for them in your portfolio. As long as you aren't using their designs to sell to other people. As a promotional tool for yourself, you are fine. But it all depends on what THEY say, some people are nice about it, some are complete d*cks about it.

TECHNICALLY since they paid you for the work, the rights are theres to do with what they choose to.

[carolyn]

i never signed anything regarding my work or anything like that. and yeah i'm only using it for promotion of course. which actually leads me to another question i had - what about the designs i create here that my company ends up not using? like for their christmas card i will present them with several completely different designs; is it unethical to use one of the designs they didn't choose for something/someone else? it seems such a waste to never use any of that stuff, since they always pick the worst option i present them with.

[captain spanky]

i've used the 'unused' stuff for others before with no problem...
and i've taken anything i've created for my own portfolio... it's not like they're going to see it anyway.. :)

[CkretAjint]

and i've taken anything i've created for my own portfolio... it's not like they're going to see it anyway.. :)

Unless it is online... ;)

[carolyn]

which mine is :rolleyes:

[captain spanky]

even then... i've never come across a problem with that... i guess they'll only have an issue if the document is containing any sensitive info... most of the stuff i've ever done is advertising and so wouldn't really fall into that category. I've created a lot of training manuals and internal booklets but i only keep that in my hard copy portfolio and only show it on request really.

[carter the artist]

my only advice is to be careful of putting pieces on your site that you've done for an employer, WHILE you are still employed. A friend of a friend just got fired for that. They called it stealing. Since the company does own the work. But the employee needs it as evidence of skills. Catch 22.
At least if he didn't work there anymore the worst they could have done was a C&D.

[captain spanky]

i guess it's a bit different in the US... from the outside of the country (and inside my sweeping generalisation of an opinion) it seems that companies there are a lot harsher on their employees and are a lot more eager to initiate legal preceedings for every little issue... :(

[CkretAjint]

Well DUH! We are in America. We love to sue people, it's how we get rich quick. :rolleyes:

[captain spanky]

:)

[carolyn]

my only advice is to be careful of putting pieces on your site that you've done for an employer, WHILE you are still employed. A friend of a friend just got fired for that. They called it stealing. Since the company does own the work. But the employee needs it as evidence of skills. Catch 22.
oh yikes! well that is the case here. did your friend sign something when he started working there regarding the ownership of the work? i'm fairly sure they wouldn't fire me.. i'm just anticipating they might be a little difficult when i do leave.

[Cheadle]

Most employment contracts include an 'intellectual property' bit or similar. Basically any ideas/designs you come up with while being paid for your time by an employer belong to them.

However, people are going to expect to see examples of work you have produced in your portfolio if you're applying for a job, and as long as you're not directly 'selling' the designs (i.e. just promoting yourself) in my opinion you'd be ok. However, putting it all online as a freelancer could be risky as it may look like you're saying that these people are your clients.

When I started my own company after being an employed designer, I showed work I had produced in the past, but added a small disclaimer saying that although I had designed all the examples, the clients may not be clients of my new company (I just had it in a printed portfolio or a PDF to send to potential clients on request) - I would be concerned about putting it online under my new company name - I don't think my previous employer would have been happy with that!

[carolyn]

interesting point... i got my design job after i had been freelancing for a while, so i just automatically thought to include the work i do for the company in my portfolio. what exactly did your disclaimer say? doesn't it kinda seem like "these clients may not be clients of this company" sounds, i don't know, bad? did you say anywhere that you were employed by that company?

[Cheadle]

interesting point... i got my design job after i had been freelancing for a while, so i just automatically thought to include the work i do for the company in my portfolio. what exactly did your disclaimer say?
Basically, I told clients that the portfolio represents my past work as an individual rather than my (own) new company's work (bear in mind that this was just when I first started up, as I wouldn't have had any recent work to show people). The 'disclaimer' said something like "Please note that although this portfolio represents the design work of [my name], some companies included may not be clients of [name of my new company that I started]". I'm not saying that this is legally binding or anything, just a measure to stop people thinking i'm trying to pass off clients as belonging to my new company.

doesn't it kinda seem like "these clients may not be clients of this company" sounds, i don't know, bad? did you say anywhere that you were employed by that company?
I never had a problem with it, as I was always up-front and honest with potential new clients about the fact that I'd worked for another company and just started up on my own - I never bullsh!tted to them about stuff - I think that's when it could sound bad as they might think you're trying to cover something up. I never mentioned my old company by name - didn't feel that was relevant. My portfolio shows off my work. I think every designer has a right to that!

Legality aside, it makes me laugh, because the company I used to work for still obviously has stuff on their website portfolio that I designed! How's that not mis-representation?!! :)

[budafist]

I know my workplace has no problem with it. Is cease and desist really the worst case scenario? If it is - and considering your current relationship with your employer, I would suggest you use only the pieces rejected by client or use them as a starting point and work on it to improve them. Often we are guided by our client's direction (even though we are the hired professionals). It's not often that you get to work on pieces until you are happy with them. View your portfolio as that opportunity.

[tZ]

fair use agreement in the future.

There's a brochure on AIGA about this if your interested.

edit:
Alright, i just pulled-up that article and assuming this is work-for-hire the company owns the copyright not the designer unless your contract says otherwise. Therefore, include a fair use agreement next time and you'll be set. If they really want to be @sses then legally they can be.

[PrintDriver]

If you were working for someone without any type of signed contract, you can bet your work falls under work-for-hire and belongs to your employer.

You not only have to worry about your former employer but also the clients the work was sold to. If the client wrote the copy or licensed the images (without web view added on in cases where it was additional to print rights), you may have some property/trademark/copyright issues going on. If any of the images used were rights managed, and you didn't pay for web display, you could also be on the outs with the image house too.

Some clients don't allow their product or brochures to be linked by association or by name to any other website.

Tread lightly.

[Jeff Fisher LogoMotives]

It's always best to clarify everything in advance - with an employer or contract client. My project agreement (http://blog-omotives.blogspot.com/2006/07/signing-on-dotted-line.html) has the following clause:

"The designer retains personal rights to use the completed project and any preliminary designs for the purpose of design competitions, future publications on design, educational purposes and the marketing of the designer's business. Where applicable the client will be given any necessary credit for usage of the project elements."

- J.

[PrintDriver]

Ever had anyone strike that clause out Jeff?
Maybe not in pure logo design I suppose, since that's pretty much all you do.
We've had gags and non-disclosures thrown at us all the time. Some of the environmental installs we do are in proprietary areas of client buildings. No photos of this work can be taken (you can't even get a camera through the door!)

[Eraser Nubbin]

I had a friend take some serious heat over using work done at a design firm to try and promote herself and find another job after she had been laid off. The issue that the design firm cited was they were using some of this same material to promote themselves (which they owned the rights to, although she designed it) and they did not like the idea of one piece of work floating around out there with two names attached to it, theres and hers.

In the end she avoided legal action by agreeing to cease displaying the work.

[jlknauff]

Use it. IMO, it's no different than the info you put on your resume. It's simply proof of your own personal skills. You're not using it to promote another company.

[Jeff Fisher LogoMotives]

Ever had anyone strike that clause out Jeff?
Maybe not in pure logo design I suppose, since that's pretty much all you do.
We've had gags and non-disclosures thrown at us all the time. Some of the environmental installs we do are in proprietary areas of client buildings. No photos of this work can be taken (you can't even get a camera through the door!)

Funny you should asked - just recently, for the first time ever in my career - I had a potential client strike out that clause, initial it and send the agreement back to me. My response was telling them if that was the case I would not be working with them.

A couple days later I got the agreement from them again, with the clause in place, and there were no other issues during the course of the project.

- J.