Love the poster, hate the statment. [Archive]

ZippyTheWonderMonkey

11-24-2007, 03:17 PM

Am i wrong for liking this poster?.
no, this is what your wrong for.

I hate the message it gives and what it stands for
the message is that Switzerland could turn into Iraq or some other Muslim country that forces women to be covered from head to toe with only their eyes to be seen. Already started here in the US with the ex-Florida Soccer-Mom who converted to Islam and then wanted to have her picture taken for her drivers license (an IDENTIFICATION CARD) with her nijab on. Hello! Cops can't ID you via retinal scan from your drivers license yet.

pic and link related

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/4900/burqaot1.jpg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2970514.stm

and yes GDF'ers I know I'm the [b]unpopular[b] voice of reason.

Oldat29

11-24-2007, 03:50 PM

no, this is what your wrong for.

I really dont understand what you mean. Are you saying im rong for not being racist??

graphicsmama

11-24-2007, 03:58 PM

Oh my gosh, PLEASE for pete's sake, can you not spell?

im relly desgusted by the lak of gud engliish sumtimes...

Oldat29

11-24-2007, 05:36 PM

Oh my gosh, PLEASE for pete's sake, can you not spell?

im relly desgusted by the lak of gud engliish sumtimes...

What are you talking about. The tread is asking about racism. NOT how people spell.

ZippyTheWonderMonkey

11-24-2007, 06:00 PM

I really dont understand what you mean.
that went without saying, anyone that cannot spell the word 'Wrong'

Are you saying im rong for not being racist??

no, you're wrong for not understanding the actual meaning. It is not a call to be racist, muslims are NOT a race of people, it is a religion, and the fact that you think they are, that alone makes me want to smack you.

The meaning of the poster was plain and simple a warning to not allow the religion of a few dictate the actions of many. Did you even research the whole muslim vs. the rest of the world issue or are you ignorant to the fact that there are 2 sides to every story, my guess is the latter.

Did you not know that certain Islamic organizations in Europe are trying to get laws passed that will force non-muslim women to wear a nijab and burqa because they are offended that we will let them(women) walk around with their hair out and skin exposed?

Do you ever watch the news/see the news on the internet.

also

Do you know what spellcheck is?

cornfed

11-24-2007, 06:47 PM

What are you talking about. The tread is asking about racism. NOT how people spell.

That would be:

What are you talking about? This thread is asking about racism, not how people spell! ;)

The poster does nothing for me. I agree that it has nothing to do with racism.

Oldat29

11-24-2007, 07:23 PM

Oldat29

11-24-2007, 07:28 PM

muslims are NOT a race of people, it is a religion, and the fact that you think they are, that alone makes me want to smack you.

I know what MUSLIMS are, and i believe its still the cause of racism. If you are saying it cant be racist BECAUSE its aimed at a religion, then you are the ignorant, and live with your eyes closed. Or do you believe that some one MUSLIM dosent have a say?

John G

11-24-2007, 07:38 PM

Discrimination is what you're talking about not racism. Racism is a form of discrimination.

...which is exactly what non-muslims might be feeling [discriminated against] were they forced to conform to muslim standards.

it'd be nice to see the actual poster and not:
"Another one of the far-right party's posters (File)"

morea

11-24-2007, 07:46 PM

everybody please play nice, I don't want to have to close this thread.

I'd recommend a read over our GDF Code of Conduct (http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7787) and the forum rules (http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13650) which will ask you not to call names or behave in a hostile manner to others on the boards.

We do also ask everyone to make an effort at proper spelling (www.spellcheck.net). It is important in our line of work, and it is hard for people to take you seriously if your posts are full of typos.

Thanks. :)

edited to add: I don't think that the term "black sheep" is racist, it is a term for someone who is outcast for behavior that goes against the norm (or often, family expectations). Here's more info on the origin of the phrase: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_sheep_(term)

11-24-2007, 08:59 PM

Racism isn't a form of discrimination but, prejudice.

Prejudice is the belief and discrimination is the action.

Someone is prejudice if they believe that a particular culture, group, etc is inferior without reason. Discrimination is when you act upon that belief and actually cause harm.

However, by definition a race is group of people who share a common culture, history or language. Therefore, its a common misconception among the population in general to limit it to physical attributes such as skin color.

ZippyTheWonderMonkey

11-24-2007, 10:00 PM

Does the poster not show racism?
Is it not a group of white sheep kicking a black sheep out of the group?

If that dosent portray racism, then what does.

Burqas and nijabs ARE black and sheep ARE white, so a sheep in a burqa and nijab WOULD BE BLACK considering that the garments cover the entire body w/ exception of the eyes. It is you who is turning this into a racially motivated poster with your twisted RACISM, yes... that's right, It is YOU who are being racist with your thought proccesses. If you continually think about racism then everything, even the innocent things (not saying that this poster is innocent) turn racist. Therefore it is you who is walking this world with a open eyes, but a closed mind.

graphicsmama

11-24-2007, 10:15 PM

muslims are NOT a race of people, it is a religion, and the fact that you think they are, that alone makes me want to smack you.
Zippy, I like you. :)

budafist

11-24-2007, 10:34 PM

The tread is asking about racism. NOT how people spell.

I find this amusing. It seems to me that Oldat29 is typing in an Irish accent!

Thread is tread in an Irish accent.
Just as a third is a turd.
Thirty three is turtie tree.

We can blame the spelling but we can also blame the accent :) Some accent tolerance here guys?

cornfed

11-25-2007, 01:12 AM

This go is for all the intellectual, ignorant, A**HOLES, That just posted that great point about my grammer and spelling.

Dose the poster not show racism?
Is it not a group of white sheep kicking a black sheep out of the group?

If that dosent portray racism, then what dose.

I read this post earlier and didn't care. But, now that I'm drunk, I figured I'd go ahead and post that I resent this.

And I'd like to point out that even when drunk, I spelled every word correctly!

budafist

11-25-2007, 01:36 AM

Cornfed is drunk! Yay!

It's a lovely Sunday afternoon here and we're all having beers in the blazing sun. The sun was making me sweat too much so I decided to come in for a moment and see what my GDF peeps are up to.

cornfed

11-25-2007, 01:57 AM

Yes, Cornfed got into the gin and tonics by default as the bartender didn't know how to make a Tom Collins. So, I settled for a gin and tonic with grenadine....ok, about 5 gin and tonics with grenadine. I had to play a gig with 3 other musicians that I haven't played with before. Ok, I played with one of them a few weeks ago at a party...but other than that, we winged it! Or, wanged it, whichever you say in your neck of the woods. I'm a cheap date - I rarely drink, but tonite I decided to go all out and was practically dancing on the tables. Since there were no tables, I took my drunkedness out on a really interesting rendition of Wayfaring Stranger! Had I been thinking, I would have alerted you all to the web cam that was broadcasting us...but fortunately, I wasn't thinking! Therefore, I saved face and only those attending were able to witness by drunken swallor. But, a good time was had by all.

urstwile

11-25-2007, 05:13 AM

I think it's a little facile to state that there's not a subtle amount of racism implied by bashing Muslims. Since I'd guess that the majority of Swiss associate that religion with a race of people. Sometimes religious intolerance can be a convenient camouflage for racism.

Regardless, discrimination is what's being voiced in the poster, not racism, but that discrimination is trickling into a kind of racial profiling, by depicting the one sheep as dark and the majority as white. I don't think that's accidental at all. It's naive to think otherwise, IMO.

Danger_Mouse

11-25-2007, 11:52 AM

^absolutely Urst Bingo and on the money.

If you saw the poster without the article, it is clearly a poster depicting racism/discrimination. White sheep kick out black sheep. Pretty black and white to me.....
The poster WITH the article changes the racisit tone to being obviously more discriminatory (as TZ stated), which is probably why the poster lost the debate on it being racisit. They should have taken the discriminatory angle. Just a wrong choice of words, but both are very closely associated.
Holy red tape on that one.

I think the point was made in the poster, albeit maybe not 100% accurate in it's definition.

Everyone is getting sidetracked a bit by the article and not just the poster alone. All this other stuff is nitpicking on definition. And for some reason the same use of terms that got the poster in trouble has gotten Oldat in some heat as well.

"muslims are NOT a race of people, it is a religion, and the fact that you think they are, that alone makes me want to smack you."

There are too many people in the world that need a smacking, unfortunately.

PS: good (and obvious point I oversighted) on the outcast black sheep thing Mo, but COULD be taken either or both ways. So double edge sword on that one. Still I think the message is delivered.

PrintDriver

11-25-2007, 11:54 AM

If you enjoy your religious freedom, make sure it goes both ways.

I'm more concerned about the website I just linked to that had that article on the poster in it...the jist of it seemed unfriendly...

Alan G

11-25-2007, 11:22 PM

Urstwile nailed it, I think. The underlying deadliness of all discrimination is that it insists upon differences. It is this concept of "otherness" that both dehumanizes "them" and makes cruelty and discrimination (which is a form of cruelty) seem acceptable or, God forbid, normal. There are far more ways any given group of people is similar to another one, than there are ways they are different.

It has always seemed to me that the real cause of hate is the hater. Racism or religious prejudice is an outlet for viciousness, justified by "how different they are," but ultimately stemming from an inborn propensity to hatred. The kinds of people who get into this (on all sides of whatever divide you want to pick) are of the same ilk. They all use the same rhetoric to dehumanize the other side, as a justification for small or large cruelties. The invective that characterizes so many Mac vs. PC "debates" is a small manifestation of this broader, deeper, uglier streak in the nature of some humans (as distinct from Human Nature).

The Nazis (and the current neo-Nazis) started and justified their horrors by dehumanizing convenient targets for an already well-developed desire for revenge. To our professional shame, that dehumanization process was, and still is, often greatly assisted by the work of graphic designers and artists.

cornfed

11-26-2007, 12:40 AM

To our professional shame, that dehumanization process was, and still is, often greatly assisted by the work of graphic designers and artists.

I very much agree with this statement. I actually left graphic design for about two years because I couldn't get past the ethical dilemma of this. I felt that I was misguiding the public by using the persuasive skills that I learned in school. I decided to go into psychology. Once I was working in that field, I found that the ethical dilemmas I faced there were even greater than what I faced in graphic design. Sometimes it seems it would be easier to just be the ice cream truck lady!

budafist

11-26-2007, 12:47 AM

Sometimes it seems it would be easier to just be the ice cream truck lady!

No way! You would have to live with the fact you are contributing to obesity in children.

cornfed

11-26-2007, 02:18 AM

I guess this is further proof that every profession would have it's dilemma's!

urstwile

11-26-2007, 03:09 AM

Indonesia contains the largest amount of Muslims in the world. I daresay that they don't look like the people that poster is trying to ostracize. For sure they're not Arabs. Just sayin'.

We ostracize people nowadays because of past events. This is racial and religious profiling.

Ostracization of a religion, because the culprit was part of a group of people who had a certain set of beliefs, we do that too, now. Islam has as many complexities to it as Christianity and Judaism. During World War II, Jews were ostracized and later rounded up and killed in camps because of their faith. To blame an entire religion for the excesses of the few fanatics seems misguided to me. Let's blame Christianity and Judaism while we're at it.

We associate Muslims with Arabs, don't we? Come on, you know we do. I'm just saying that it's best to know what the real face and belief looks like before we start running scared before other people's beliefs, and in this instance, to know that the face looks nothing like what we think it does, or what we assume it does. It might surprise you. How many of you knew that in fact, the majority of Muslims actually look more Asian than Arab?

Our beliefs have proven to be just as scary as many other religions. Crusades, anyone? Spanish Inquisition anyone? Salem witch trials anyone?

Religious intolerance takes many forms. To blame a religion for the sins of the fanatics seems out of hand to me.

ZippyTheWonderMonkey

11-29-2007, 01:14 PM

Religious intolerance takes many forms. To blame a religion for the sins of the fanatics seems out of hand to me.

While I agree with the first sentence of this statement, I must say......Oh Really?

Teacher charged in teddy bear case

Story Highlights
NEW: British teacher in Sudan charged with insulting religion and inciting hatred
NEW: British Foreign Secretary summons Sudanese ambassador to meeting
Gillian Gibbons, 54, arrested after her class named teddy bear "Mohammed"
Blasphemy punishable in Sudan by 40 lashes, prison or fine, reports say
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/africa/11/28/sudan.bears/?iref=mpstoryview

Last time I checked Mohammed was one of the, if not THE, most popular name in the world. Let's round every single one of them up and their parents and beat them with a cat o' nines!

PrintDriver

11-29-2007, 02:00 PM

Someone already beat you to it:
http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31991

And it's not the religion, it's the interpreters of the law based on the religion. There are many variations of belief based on the same text. Not all have laws as described above. To blame a religion for the sins of the lawmakers of one sect of that religion is wrong.

BTW, you can name a male child Mohammed, but I fairly certain it is improper to give that name to inanimate objects, just as there are no visual renditions of the Prophet himself.

Hatred comes from misunderstanding. And you misunderstand some basic concepts. When in Rome....
I'm not saying the teacher should be lashed. But you can't stand on "I didn't know the law!" in a foreign country.

Broacher

11-29-2007, 02:44 PM

A political tangent, perhaps, but here's a terrific example of putting graphic skill and talent to work for a 'hard to argue against' cause.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjC_k1B0Xdg

(It's also a great showcase of the power of the newer NPR (non-photorealistic renderers))