noob logo question

[gigabitz]

hello all. this is a great site. ive been on another design forum but this one is better.

anyway to my question.
i recently started my freelance design business. i have two clients right now. one just wanted illustrations, and the other wants a logo. well i designed the logo for them and they like it and everything. however i designed it with both Photoshop and Illustrator. i created a hat and a jalepeno in illustrator, then i combined them with text in photoshop. should i have created the whole thing in illustartor? i personally feel photoshop allows more editing for text. however its not vector format. i did make an eps for them from photoshop. but should i go back and recreate it in illustrator so they can have an .ai file as well? i have no problem doing that. also for the text should i use a font only or actually use the pen tool and redraw the text as an image? im pretty sure u guys can help so thanks a lot. also i couldnt find a topic on this so if there is one please direct me there and disregard this post. thanks.

[Oldat29]

Ok first off illy has a thing called creat outlines, which turnes text into outlines so you can do wat you want with the typeface. If i was doing a type project i would never use ps, illy is deffo the metter option.

[MD]

Logos are used on a variety of things from business cards to billboards and are printed using a variety of methods and colors. Creating the entire logo in Illustrator gives you the scalability and flexibility your customer will need down the line.

[budafist]

i personally feel photoshop allows more editing for text.

Really? I can't imagine how. Illustrator allows you to pick up individual points in letters. I'm not sure how much more detailed editing you would need.

[PrintDriver]

But in Illustrator you can't make it shiny. :D
Well....not easily.

[Virgo Nightingale]

Logos shouldn't be shiny. Not that the web 2.0 trend is proving me right... :rolleyes:

[razuel]

Personally, I like to conceptualize in photoshop first because I find it much quicker, but final versions end in illustrator of course.

[PrintDriver]

I was joking. :D

Pencil and paper are faster still.

[razuel]

I was joking. :D

Pencil and paper are faster still.

Of course, for me it's, writing/discussing - drawing - photoshop concepts - illustrator final

[B.J.]

lol at PS being a better text editor

text has no business in PS

[PrintDriver]

Well, it all depends on how you print the text...
A better comment would be, raster images have no business in logos.

[tZ]

but I want a filter on my logo!

[ReneGade2012]

Well, it all depends on how you print the text...
A better comment would be, raster images have no business in logos.

Thats definatly true. My boss, although an amazing designer, sometimes just likes to break the rules. He will often use raster images in logos because he feels it just looks better. And the clients agree, they only care about it looking pretty. But only I see the aggravation it can cause when they ask him to print a decal for their work truck and he has to stretch the crap out of some poor picture :(

[carter the artist]

Vector. Always vector. And never any photoshop elements. Text is never done right with photoshop for logo purposes. If you don't do it right from the start then you will end up with problems.

[OzwaldoSanchez]

I get this ALL THE TIME from the unknowing client. They have got their logo electronically at 150x75mm rgb @ 150dpi, then wonder why I have to charge extra studio time to recreate their logo to be able to scale the thing up to fit on the side of a truck. So it has to be illy from the start of any final artwork. With a combination illy filters most ps styles can be recreated...

[PrintDriver]

If the file is saved correctly as an EPS, Photoshop text remains vector.

You shouldn't be charging extra studio time or even redrawing a logo without exhausting all avenues of getting the actual artwork. And even then, there are some cases where you just DO NOT do it. Especially with large corporations who may have a legal department. ;)

As for Raster images or effects in logos, I'm not saying it can't be done. It just has to be done right. Look at a logo like X-Box. Yes they do have a flat version but they are known for that glowing Orb so their designers did it right and started HUGE. That logo will print on a billboard correctly but more importantly it will also be super crisp at a mere 4'x8' arm's length view. If you are going to use raster, at least do it right and understand that your 4-color logo will cause cost increases in production and in some cases make certain replication processes impossible (embroidery and 3D signage come to mind immediately).

[Cheadle]

i recently started my freelance design business. i have two clients right now. one just wanted illustrations, and the other wants a logo. well i designed the logo for them and they like it and everything. however i designed it with both Photoshop and Illustrator. i created a hat and a jalepeno in illustrator, then i combined them with text in photoshop. should i have created the whole thing in illustartor? i personally feel photoshop allows more editing for text. however its not vector format. i did make an eps for them from photoshop. but should i go back and recreate it in illustrator so they can have an .ai file as well? i have no problem doing that. also for the text should i use a font only or actually use the pen tool and redraw the text as an image? im pretty sure u guys can help so thanks a lot. also i couldnt find a topic on this so if there is one please direct me there and disregard this post. thanks.

No offence to the OP, but does it annoy anyone else that people set themselves up as 'freelance designers' when they are obviously inexperienced and don't seem to know the technical basics? They are presumably charging clients for services which they cannot provide to the standards that our industry should expect.

I'm a self-employed designer now, but have many previous years experience within design companies, where i started as a junior and learnt the necessary skills, before moving on.

I think there are too many people still in college (or just inexperienced), who set up a shiny website making themselves out to be a design company. You see it a lot on forums, and I think it devalues the genuinely experienced designers.

[rant over] ;)

[razuel]

No offence to the OP, but does it annoy anyone else that people set themselves up as 'freelance designers' when they are obviously inexperienced and don't seem to know the technical basics? They are presumably charging clients for services which they cannot provide to the standards that our industry should expect.

I'm a self-employed designer now, but have many previous years experience within design companies, where i started as a junior and learnt the necessary skills, before moving on.

I think there are too many people still in college (or just inexperienced), who set up a shiny website making themselves out to be a design company. You see it a lot on forums, and I think it devalues the genuinely experienced designers.

[rant over] ;)

I don't think it's fair to clump everyone into that, especially college students. When I first started out I did do just that and it was a great learning experience. Professors encourage students to do this for the experience. Everyone needs to start somewhere and I don't see anything wrong with jumping into the field with basic design knowledge and getting a little work.

There is no law in the industry. We provide aesthetic solutions to companies for money-- any way someone wants to do that works fine. There's a way to do it and a better way to do it just like any business.

[PrintDriver]

I personally believe every designer should do a journeymanship - actually WORK in the field before hanging out a shingle as a Freelancer.
But alas, this will never happen either.

I'd be really bent if, as a customer, I found you wasting my time and money cuz you don't know what your are doing while 'learning' at my expense.

Also, a newb doesn't know processes and materials. That also shortchanges the customer. An apprenticeship (which is a paid and worthwhile internship) is worth it's weight in gold.

One can only hope the newb is charging lower rates for this inexperience and the client is a tightwad who may deserve what they get. Not saying this is true in all cases and designers do have to start somewhere, but hopping into freelance without experience, a business plan, or backup capitol is just plain foolishness. Doing it on the side or as a 'hobby' are different matters.

Think on this, if no one will hire you as a junior designer due to lack of experience, what proof do you have that you are ready for the Real World as a Freelancer? A great book and a little pre-press knowledge will take you far, yes. At least have that much.

Sorry if anyone is offended. :p

[razuel]

I personally believe every designer should do a journeymanship - actually WORK in the field before hanging out a shingle as a Freelancer.
I'd be really bent if, as a customer, I found you wasting my time and money cuz you don't know what your are doing while 'learning' at my expense.

No one hires a young student without knowing what they're getting into, I'd hope. They're paying cheap money for lower-caliber work. I think everyone needs some sort of internship, but at the same time they should be doing their own thing-- anything possible to improve.

If I hadn't started taking my career into my own hands when I started college I'd be right where a lot of people are in my college-- jobless. 95% of students float around, just doing the work the college assigns. To no surprise all of those people have little to no portfolio, lower-scale designs, and terrible mindsets.

As long as a client isn't deceived it's a great thing to do.

[Cheadle]

I don't think it's fair to clump everyone into that, especially college students. When I first started out I did do just that and it was a great learning experience. Professors encourage students to do this for the experience. Everyone needs to start somewhere and I don't see anything wrong with jumping into the field with basic design knowledge and getting a little work.

There is no law in the industry. We provide aesthetic solutions to companies for money-- any way someone wants to do that works fine. There's a way to do it and a better way to do it just like any business.
I think its great that people want to get experience in the field when they're still at college - that's just what I did and it was invaluable when getting a full time job. Difference is that I worked as a junior in a design company or two (some voluntary work experience, some paid a junior wage relative to my experience). Also, doing invites, flyers etc for family and friends is great for experience, and it doesn't mislead anyone.

My issue is partly with people who aren't upfront with clients regarding their lack of experience, setting up a website etc that appears to be a 'design company'.

We provide aesthetic solutions to companies for money-- any way someone wants to do that works fine.
Its not fine really, is it? If someone doesn't have the technical knowledge then clients are being sold short.

Designers (me included) always rant about 'anyone with a pc' thinking that design is easy and something they can do themselves. Surely taking on freelance work with little experience just fuels this line of thought?

[razuel]

I'm just getting sick of the mindset that we have some sort of rights. I think it is fine. If someone wants to make money by selling clients short, I really don't care. This could be because I have a darwinism view on life though. I don't think there's such a thing as fair, only haves and have nots, do-ers and don't-ers. If a designer with no experience can land a multi-million dollar company over me and my company, then they deserve it.

Maybe it's just that I'm tired of hearing people complain on this forum about it or maybe it's that I haven't been in the field long enough to become angry over it.

Oh, and I'm not a freelancer-- it could be a much different experience from that end.

[OzwaldoSanchez]

um, little point about the charging thing... most of the time its an easy logo to regenerate, but my time is charged for by the quater hour and has to be accounted for. & I do ask the client 'do you want me to re-do this' before I get stuck in.... don't want to appear like a money grabbing bar-stool.

Have toyed with the 'freelance' idea myself.... but only recently as I feel than now I can, with 12 years of experience behind me.

[PrintDriver]

If a designer with no experience can land a multi-million dollar company over me and my company, then they deserve it.
Yeah, but you don't have to try PRINT it...
(keyword = try)
;)

You see, I'm not coming at this from the point of view as another designer but rather as a printer who has to deal with this kind of thing.

[tZ]

PD doesn't the company you work for make more money when files are set up incorrectly because they charge to set them up properly? Most printers charge for stupidity.

[B.J.]

No one hires a young student without knowing what they're getting into, I'd hope. They're paying cheap money for lower-caliber work. I think everyone needs some sort of internship, but at the same time they should be doing their own thing-- anything possible to improve.

If I hadn't started taking my career into my own hands when I started college I'd be right where a lot of people are in my college-- jobless. 95% of students float around, just doing the work the college assigns. To no surprise all of those people have little to no portfolio, lower-scale designs, and terrible mindsets.

As long as a client isn't deceived it's a great thing to do.

this thread delivers. What you said razuel further inspired me to work hard outside of class (I happen to be a junior in college) to get my career going. I have been working hard everyday just doing extra tutorials and reading design books/mags trying to improve and gain an understanding the school is not fully providing.

[LeftBrain Artist]

If a designer with no experience can land a multi-million dollar company over me and my company, then they deserve it.

I've got a small problem with that statement. If they're landing the job due to a dynamite portfolio and proven ability to create stunning designs - or if they're offering a similar service for a better price, sure, they deserve it. If they're landing the job due to nepotism, blackmail, sexual favors, or otherwise nefarious means. Nope, they don't deserve it.

[razuel]

I've got a small problem with that statement. If they're landing the job due to a dynamite portfolio and proven ability to create stunning designs - or if they're offering a similar service for a better price, sure, they deserve it. If they're landing the job due to nepotism, blackmail, sexual favors, or otherwise nefarious means. Nope, they don't deserve it.

Oh, come on, not sexual favors even? ;)

[LeftBrain Artist]

Oh, come on, not sexual favors even? ;)

Well, missionary is OK. Anything else is an abomination to fair business practices.

[PrintDriver]

PD doesn't the company you work for make more money when files are set up incorrectly because they charge to set them up properly? Most printers charge for stupidity.

One can only go so far with what Keyare used to call the Bonehead Tax.;)
And sometimes you can only do so much with a file. Some get 'fixed', some get sent back to the designer for redo.

Actually, where I work, we don't always know up front who the designer might be when quoting a job. Keeps us honest.

[Helveticawho]

No offence to the OP, but does it annoy anyone else that people set themselves up as 'freelance designers' when they are obviously inexperienced and don't seem to know the technical basics? They are presumably charging clients for services which they cannot provide to the standards that our industry should expect.

I'm a self-employed designer now, but have many previous years experience within design companies, where i started as a junior and learnt the necessary skills, before moving on.

I think there are too many people still in college (or just inexperienced), who set up a shiny website making themselves out to be a design company. You see it a lot on forums, and I think it devalues the genuinely experienced designers.

[rant over] ;)
+1

[budafist]

Well, missionary is OK. Anything else is an abomination to fair business practices.

LBA, you need to live a little ;)

As for bonehead tax, unfortunately we work in a competitive industry. There are some clients that we charge bonehead tax to, but if it's a decent profit job, then bonehead tax gets waivered. :rolleyes:

[PrintDriver]

I think there are too many people still in college (or just inexperienced), who set up a shiny website making themselves out to be a design company. You see it a lot on forums, and I think it devalues the genuinely experienced designers.

Having a bunch of newbs out there does not devalue the genuinely experienced GDs. The genuinely experienced know those people are out there and genuinely don't care. Nor should they.

And Budafist is right, printing is hellaciously competitive right now. And regular clients do get a really good break.

You think the GD industry is flooded with people with comp+software? Consider how many posts you have seen here, on a Graphic Design forum asking how to use Flexi. Then go check out the sign industry forums. It'll give you some idea how many people there are out there that think buying a printer makes them a print vendor... :rolleyes: I would never venture into wide format without being able to hire in a competent machine operator.

Do I care if they are out there? No. Not really. Except when they come here to ask questions that their manuals and/or any adequate operator could answer. Do they devalue my industry? Nope. There are potential clients that can't afford what we offer, either because they really can't afford it or because they don't want to. Then there's the often used line, "well, so-and-so down the street will do it for this much". Fine. Use so-and-so. <shrug>

The print industry motto of "Cheap, Fast, Quality, pick any TWO" is very true.
Just be sure the quality issue isn't due to lack of experience. :D

[gigabitz]

if anyone has a problem with me calling myself a FREELANCE than deal with it. i ask one question and it goes a million different direction. alot of people in these desugn forums think they are better than everyone and always have something smart to say. if am designings logs and etc for small business than what do i call myself. a cheap designer, a no experienced artist who knows adobe creative suite? u tell me since you seem to know it all. i cant stand these places sometimes. im studying my butt off, while trying to make money on the side to provide for my family and i and you think i dont have the right to call myself a freelance.

Also i never mentioned anything about me being a pro designer and knowing everything did i. ive been designing the logo for about two months now. and i decided to take to the client and they loved it. so is it my fault they wanted to pay me for it. i knew what i needed to do i just thought id get some advice.

so much for that well you wont be seeign me here any more.

i know im going to make it as a designer . no matter how long it takes i will.


also thanks for answering my question those who had the maturity to answer instead of calling me out. i knew what i needed to do i just wasnt sure if i really needed too. well thanks and i guess you wont be seeing me for a while.

[budafist]

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/7370/whutianhe2.jpg

[CkretAjint]

http://www.teamzx2.com/Smileys/others/76.gif

Man this post is filled with a bunch of whining...

[Helveticawho]

if anyone has a problem with me calling myself a FREELANCE than deal with it. i ask one question and it goes a million different direction. alot of people in these desugn forums think they are better than everyone and always have something smart to say. if am designings logs and etc for small business than what do i call myself. a cheap designer, a no experienced artist who knows adobe creative suite? u tell me since you seem to know it all. i cant stand these places sometimes. im studying my butt off, while trying to make money on the side to provide for my family and i and you think i dont have the right to call myself a freelance.

Also i never mentioned anything about me being a pro designer and knowing everything did i. ive been designing the logo for about two months now. and i decided to take to the client and they loved it. so is it my fault they wanted to pay me for it. i knew what i needed to do i just thought id get some advice.


so much for that well you wont be seeign me here any more.

i know im going to make it as a designer . no matter how long it takes i will.


also thanks for answering my question those who had the maturity to answer instead of calling me out. i knew what i needed to do i just wasnt sure if i really needed too. well thanks and i guess you wont be seeing me for a while.

As someone brand new to this forum, I also have much to learn about graphic design. With that being said, I think with a little research you could have found the answer you were looking for and avoided any opinions that may have hurt your feelings. One last thing, incorrect grammar and uncapitialized sentences don't look entirely professional. I hope that's not how you correspond with your clients. Good luck with your project.:)

[gigabitz]

You are right. I could have found the answer to my question with some research. I figured I could aks this forum and get an answer. But it seems that some people prefer to go off subject rather than answer the question asked. Pardon my rant, but I am in a crappy mood, and seeing the post about "calling yourself a freelancer" kind of ticked me off. As far as grammar and puncuation is concered, dont question whteher or not I use proper technique when it comes to my client's. Also I thought this was an informal place to share ideas and thoughts. Therefore I didnt feel the need to stress grammar and puncuation. I guess I need to wear my suit and tie next time I log in here. Well thank you dearly for your responses, and I hope you and yours have a pleasant evening.

Cheerio

[GraphixNPrint]

I guess I need to wear my suit and tie next time I log in here.

No, we are informal here... see how I am dressed

http://www.4cusa.com/dom/GNPSexyLegs.gif

:D

[budafist]

lol I'm actually wearing a shirt like this today to work!

http://www.zymetrical.com/images/products/tuxedoshirt.jpg

[GraphixNPrint]

Planning a wedding for when you get off Buda?? ;)

[gigabitz]

haha i like you guyz.

oohhhhhh he didnt use capitalization on his text. i hope he dosent do that at his aa meetings.

[Kool]

gigabitz, your question was answered, why don't you just let it go. Threads tend to drift from here to there. Sometime objectionable things get posted others are just random silliness. Don't get offended by what strangers may say in an open forum as long as the original question is answered. Life's too short.

[gigabitz]

yeah i know. your right. i just dont know why people gotta hate instead of lifting someone up. its all good though i take nothing to heart. i also know i have a lot to learn. but thats part of the process. ohh well. no hard feelings. now all i need to do is finish this damn hand on this illy im working on. drawing hands are my downfall. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[Helveticawho]

You are right. I could have found the answer to my question with some research. I figured I could aks this forum and get an answer. But it seems that some people prefer to go off subject rather than answer the question asked. Pardon my rant, but I am in a crappy mood, and seeing the post about "calling yourself a freelancer" kind of ticked me off. As far as grammar and puncuation is concered, dont question whteher or not I use proper technique when it comes to my client's. Also I thought this was an informal place to share ideas and thoughts. Therefore I didnt feel the need to stress grammar and puncuation. I guess I need to wear my suit and tie next time I log in here. Well thank you dearly for your responses, and I hope you and yours have a pleasant evening.

Cheerio

Just to inject some humor into the thread-any chance you're soured because the Cowboys lost.:)

[budafist]

I guess one of the reasons why these forums get so sidetracked is that these forums work almost like a chatroom. Therefore people tend to say what's on their minds no matter what was originally posted. Some of us like hanging out here so to make it more hospitable, we go on funny adventures into thread hijacking. It's almost a sport. You might need to ignore or skim some of the silly stuff to get to the good stuff.

[gigabitz]

damnit you had to bring that up right. of course i was mad, but i was like putting icing on the cake. i was pissed before, but that put it over the top. oh well. they had it. i cant even remeber how many false starts, and crayton dropped that third and long which would have been a huge gain. they let it slip out their hands. also the secondary is garbage. oh well time to bust out the fishing pole. looks like romos gonna tear ms simpson up this offseason. i would

[budafist]

Planning a wedding for when you get off Buda?? ;)

Does that mean my fiance has to wear a white frock?

[GraphixNPrint]

no, he should go naked to save a little time when it comes to the fun part... the honeymoon ;)

[budafist]

damnit you had to bring that up right. of course i was mad, but i was like putting icing on the cake. i was pissed before, but that put it over the top. oh well. they had it. i cant even remeber how many false starts, and crayton dropped that third and long which would have been a huge gain. they let it slip out their hands. also the secondary is garbage. oh well time to bust out the fishing pole. looks like romos gonna tear ms simpson up this offseason. i would

I have no idea what this post is about.

[budafist]

no, he should go naked to save a little time when it comes to the fun part... the honeymoon ;)

Oh my. Can I not carry him over the threshold?

Over the weekend we went to the beach and we did that thing when girls sit on guys shoulders and wrestle the other couple. Then some bright spark (not me) decided it would be more funny the other way around (girls carrying guys). Our contenders are the same height, so it wasn't too much for the other girl to carry the other guy on her shoulders. But my fiance is 1 foot taller than me and much heavier. I can't believe I carried him on my shoulders. I was so sore that night.

Sure, I was standing in water, but he wasn't in the water, so the weight wasn't being taken off my shoulders at all. Never again!

[Kool]

Not to sidetrack the sidetrack but that was pretty funny that people actually blamed Jessica for his bad play that one week just because she was watching the game LOL.

[Helveticawho]

I have no idea what this post is about.

Neither do I. I thought it was an inside story. BTW Gigabitz, being from NY, I'm an avid Giants Fan. :D

[GraphixNPrint]

I guess that gives new meaning to carrying alot of weight on your shoulders. ;)

[budafist]

Or carrying the weight of the world on my shoulders. He means the world to me.

Cue Canned Audience soundclip: Awwwwww....

I see why I didn't understand some of this thread. It was about sports wasn't it?

[gigabitz]

me neither

[gigabitz]

wow there two convos going on at once here. amazing


that is ridiculous how they blamed her. but maybe she did wear him out the night before? who kns or cares.

damn you helvetica.
ohh well cant win em all.
u really think they will get past the patriots?

[budafist]

I'm glad you decided to stay gigabitz!

By the way, I used to hate drawing hands too but then I spent a day or two drawing my own hand (left hand of course) and now I'm pretty good at it. I suggest you study it too to get your head around it.

When faced with something that I can't draw, I study it (drawing from life is more observation than drawing skills) intensely. Once I've memorised the curves etc, I won't forget it.

Our life drawing instructor used to do exercises such as:
Look at the model for 10 minutes and then draw for one minute without the model.
Look at the model for 1 minute and then draw for 10 minutes without the model.

The one minute drawings were a million times better than the 10 minute drawings.

Observation is so important!

[Helveticawho]

wow there two convos going on at once here. amazing


that is ridiculous how they blamed her. but maybe she did wear him out the night before? who kns or cares.

damn you helvetica.
ohh well cant win em all.
u really think they will get past the patriots?

Well, first they need to get by Green Bay. Anyway, I don't know who can get by the Pats. The Giants almost beat them 38-35, the last game of the season. Almost doesn't count.:(

[urstwile]

Looks like you're quickly getting the hang of this thread derailment thing, gigabitz. :)

[gigabitz]

i am great at drawing by observation. i just have the thing about drawing freehand with out studying. i feel if i can i can be a better artist. but i def need to study the hand. plus its at a weird angle so i need some practice.

[Helveticawho]

Looks like you're quickly getting the hang of this thread derailment thing, gigabitz. :)

That "nucular" quote wouldn't be a cheap shot at the president, would it? :D

[gigabitz]

yeah im catchign on quick

[Virgo Nightingale]

Though I sometimes get a kick out of the occasional forum meltdown, I most certainly prefer when a member chills out, regains composure and realizes we ain't so bad. Glad to have ya, gigabitz! Hope you continue to enjoy your stay! :)

[gigabitz]

yeah its cool
i just wish some people wouldnt make you feel like crap cause you dont know everything about design.

[Seapony]

Neither do I. I thought it was an inside story. BTW Gigabitz, being from NY, I'm an avid Giants Fan. :D

Wooooo, back from partying have to enjoy it while I can...what a wild sports weekend this has been. So, what'd I miss?

;)

[Seapony]

I'm glad you decided to stay gigabitz!

I fail to see what was the problem with the other forum...

;)

[Two-Toe Tom]

Not to sidetrack the sidetrack but that was pretty funny that people actually blamed Jessica for his bad play that one week just because she was watching the game LOL.

i also blame nick lachey's failed career on jessica simpson

[balou]

Just gotta say it... GO PACK GO!

[Seapony]

yeah its cool
i just wish some people wouldnt make you feel like crap cause you dont know everything about design.
Way I personally see it, whether one likes it or not, the design community is not one big happy group of equal statused peers. There aren't many (if any) industries that are, to be frank.

Those who are more seasoned often find it insulting when hobbyists, noobs or whatever talk and act as though they know more than they actually do concerning the industry amongst peers, whether it's talking shop or running a business. Some feel it sometimes smacks of disrespect because in a way it comes off as an attempt insult one's intelligence. It normally doesn't take long for someone to challenge their knowledge, which leads to all sorts of hostile discussions, etc.

I find when a student, novice, entering professional, etc. joins a group and introduces themselves as such (Hi, I'm a grad, starting my own business and would appreciate your advice on...), the poster's experience tends to be a more amiable one than someone who just jumps in with (I designed this logo for a client, what do you think?). Not only do they have more background information about the new poster to go on, they're also demonstrating respect and a willingness to learn from those who have been on the forum for a while (when they're asking for a critique). On a forum such as this, many are likely to be regarded as Seniors in their field so it pays to make a good...or sincere...professional first impression (I imagine that's why some folks are also grammar sticklers...a typo in this business can often mean your rear end on a platter :)).

Another "pro" is when they're criticized it will likely be on a sliding scale—that is, they won't be scrutinized on the same level as someone with more experience or deeper understanding of creative principles that comes with years on the job. In this deadline driven, client sunshine blowing business, hearing "helpful" crits like "that's ass, start over" isn't all that uncommon. Folks will be more understanding and helpful to noobs if they know they're noobs to begin with...even on the "other" forum. ;)

This concludes my abridged personal two bits. Hope it made sense considering I'm still recovering from the party...you understand...oh wait, I guess you wouldn't, hehe. I have to enjoy it while I can...if we get the chance to meet NE we're pretty much screwed...then again miracles can happen.

:D

[Seapony]

i also blame nick lachey's failed career on jessica simpson
So, what you're saying is that in reality all of this is Nick's fault for kicking Jessica to the curb...yeeeees, it's all so clear now...

:D

[urstwile]

That "nucular" quote wouldn't be a cheap shot at the president, would it? :D
Whatever makes you say that, Helvie? http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/angelic006.gif :D

[budafist]

Urst wouldn't do that! She's too diplomatic.

[Seapony]

That "nucular" quote wouldn't be a cheap shot at the president, would it? :D

Whatever makes you say that, Helvie? http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/angelic006.gif :D

More importantly, what makes you think it's "cheap?"

http://www.smileygarden.de/smilie/Bunnys/dancing_in_love.gif

[PrintDriver]

What I wanna know is why Indianapolis fans had to boo the little girl who won her division in the Kicking Punting Throwing awards? Just cuz she had on a Pats jersey?
Low, I tell you.
The kid was from Vermont. She's entitled. :D

[Seapony]

What I wanna know is why Indianapolis fans had to boo the little girl who won her division in the Kicking Punting Throwing awards? Just cuz she had on a Pats jersey?
Low, I tell you.
The kid was from Vermont. She's entitled. :D

They did?? Talk about classy.

http://www.smileygarden.de/smilie/Bunnys/pointing_eyes.gif

[LeftBrain Artist]

I guess I need to wear my suit and tie next time I log in here.

A suit and tie, eh? That's pretty hot. Did you know I'm into role-playing? (See Buda - I can so live a little)

Seriously - vectors are the way to go for logos. Do it in Illy.

Oh, and sorry about the 'boys loss yesterday - I was really looking forward to the rematch. (Cough cough).

dum dum da-da da-dum

[PrintDriver]

yeah, they did the awards between the 3rd and 4th quarter of the Colts/Chargers game. They even played it again on the news this morning.

Do the Chargers have any quarterbacks left to even play next weekend? They were playing their 3rd weren't they?

[Red Kittie Kat]

Rocket ... I gave you your own thread here:

http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33029