Is web design a sexist industry

[Emmanize]

I find it is. I started my web design role mid last year and I make a post about the guy I work with taking credit for my work.
http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28433 (http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28433)

Well it’s still going on. Only it’s escalated. I may as well not be here because people will walk past me and ask him for help. But what bugs me more then anything is when they ask HIM for assistance on MY projects. His admitted to me that his not very good as started things from scratch…and his right he is weak in that area. However he admits his better at “editing” things that are already done, and he dose with my sites and designs. This bothers me because I am happy how they are when I have finished then but he isn’t so he changes bits. So putting these sites on my portfolio is out of the question now. So I normally build the websites from scratch while he dose all the backend stuff. But he ends up taking over the projects anyway, despite the fact that I put a lot of work in. I might as well not even be there because not only don’t people come to me about things; they don’t even seem to appreciate what I do. They think I am some beginner sat on the sidelines taking orders from Steve. When he had a day off the HR said “Is there anything that needs doing and won’t be delayed while you’re away?” He made it clear he had “given” me plenty of things to do. Why was I not capable of doing it? Everyone just assumes Steve is the big senior boss. Yes he very good at all the databases which I can’t do, but his designs suck and my work just goes unrecognised (even though I do the main bulk of it…like building the sites in the first place).

My confidence has been drained so much I have often thought about quitting the industry. I have made my thoughts very clear to Steve…who just tells me “not to worry about it”. I have told my boss who sent an email out to ask people to even copy me in emails (that they still are not doing) which means I don’t have a clue what is going on half of the time. I have asked my boss again if I can talk to him once more, but he doesn’t seem interested (plus his always in Dubai). This is getting so depressing for me. :(

[captain spanky]

i don't think it's the industry. TBH i think it's just this guy. He'll tell you not to worry about it because you're making him look good!
I'd be looking for another job if i was in your shoes.
At the very least, if i heard him taking credit for something i mostly did, i'd get vocal and make sure people knew about my contributions. By saying nothing, you're setting yourself up for a fall. You have to get proactive and vocal. I sat for years in a job just being quiet and doing the work... i got NO recognition at all. When i started pushing my name into things and making sure people knew who i was, people started treating me a lot differently. I know it's hard to get out of that comfortable groove, but it has to be done. If it means working somewhere else, do it. I did. :)
Check the quote in my sig. it's very true.

[Jackimalyn]

dont quit Emmanize! you're too good! What about a new job?

[morea]

http://i11.tinypic.com/6u60xar.jpg

[Mynock]

Since I don't do much web design I think print design is the sexiest!

[Emmanize]

I am going to update my portfolio and look for another job. I want to try my hand at illustration and learn flash more as well at some point, as I feel pretty confident on the web design and digital art/print side of things now. I have tried to be vocal but the office is filled with women and Steve is the ONLY man…so naturally that’s going to go against me anyway. Also I forgot to mention that we started the SAME DAY, so he has no reason so be in charge of me through company experience. He just labels himself the “website manager”. He even learnt CSS from me (as he didn’t know it when he first started this role and yes his on more money then I am) and now his telling me what should be WC3 standard :eek: ! He keeps changes all my HTML to PHP includes when I haven’t even finished it so it makes it more tricky for me. I have told him about this and he just gets arsey about it and says it’s the best way to do things.

[captain spanky]

if you're equal responsibility wise, how is he on more money than you?

I'd be putting "Regards, Ian - the 'REAL' website manager" in my email signatures or something. :D

and i'd have thought an office full of women would have been adept at bringing a lowly man down to size and putting him in his place.. lol ;)

[Seapony]

I am going to update my portfolio and look for another job. I want to try my hand at illustration and learn flash more as well at some point, as I feel pretty confident on the web design and digital art/print side of things now. I have tried to be vocal but the office is filled with women and Steve is the ONLY man…so naturally that’s going to go against me anyway.

Why is that?

Also I forgot to mention that we started the SAME DAY, so he has no reason so be in charge of me through company experience. He just labels himself the “website manager”. He even learnt CSS from me (as he didn’t know it when he first started this role and yes his on more money then I am) and now his telling me what should be WC3 standard :eek: ! He keeps changes all my HTML to PHP includes when I haven’t even finished it so it makes it more tricky for me. I have told him about this and he just gets arsey about it and says it’s the best way to do things.
I didn't read up on your first thread, but it seems to me that he doesn't respect you to the point of using you as his doormat towards good standing in the company. Climbing on other's backs to make it up the ladder of success isn't all that uncommon by "alphas" in particular, I'm afraid.

I hope you're not enabling him anymore. If he's so damn smart, he can learn or figure out any problems for himself. Don't help on his projects and make sure that everyone knows he was the one who made the final decisions—let him trip himself up on his own. At the very least, he'll know that you're done with him.

I wouldn't say that this industry is sexist—regrettably on the whole men still are paid more than women for the same position no matter what industry they're in (you'd think that would have been a thing of the past by now)—however it sometimes can become quite cutthroat.

Sorry you're going through all of this. Don't be afraid to be a "complainer" and vent to the right channels (and document those meetings to keep record...or better still, bring it up during your review if your company holds one). Moreover, I would go so far as to tell them that, since he knows SO much, that you won't input nor dispute his sage decisions, after all, he's paid more than you for what amounts to less work (if I'm understanding correctly). Use it as leverage for a raise if you can. It sucks, but you're going to have to roll up your sleeves, find some allies or fight by yourself for yourself. Hard.

If you feel it's not worth it, it's understandable. Anyway without you there, they'll appreciate you soon enough, I can bet. What's that saying about revenge being a dish best served cold? Find solace in that when you move on to bigger and better things.

Good luck.

:)

[LeftBrain Artist]

All industries are sexist, and will continue to be so to a greater or lesser degree toward one gender or the other until humans become unigender and reproduce by budding.

Sounds like your company has close ties to the Arab world. While Dubai has made great strides in women's rights compared to other arab locations, I'm guessing they may yet be a little behind the curve compared to other developed nations - I'm guessing this may be a factor. Still though, I'm not so sure this can simply be explained as chauvinism/sexism. I bet he'd be doing this if you were a guy, too. You've gotta stand up for yourself. Obviously you've stated your concerns - and you must have been fairly decent and professional about it because both your boss and Steve see no need to change anything about the situation. If there's going to be no consequences or repercussions for their actions, they'll continue on their merry way. You need to create consequences and repercussions.

Are they intimidating you into a submissive role? If not - the concern you need to clearly state is that the whole dominant-submissive dynamic to the business relationship is horseshit and you've had enough. They're being disrespectful and if it continues you won't be clearly stating anything to them anymore. Rather, you'll be clearly stating your concerns to your attorney regarding your pending sexual discrimination suit, and that you clearly hope that when the wage records are examined, the scales won't be hideously tipped in favor of a schlong.

Don't be a battered wife.


Emmanize,

You need to put this guy in his place QUICKLY. Make sure he knows how things really are and that you're going to make shishkabobs out of his nuts if he takes credit for your work again.

Turn into an uber-bitch if necessary. If you let him walk all over you now he'll continue doing it.

Best advice you've been given yet. Especially the Uber-Bitch part.

Oh, and darlin', you better put those websites you worked on in your portfolio. Just because he changed bits doesn't mean you didn't put a significant amount of work into those projects or that its suddenly now "his" website. He may have led others to believe so, but that doesn't make it so. Team projects are perfectly acceptable to add to a portfolio. If you show someone the website, and point out what was altered from your original design - if they've got a brain they'll realize the merit of your work. If they don't, they don't have a brain and they're probably not worth working for anyway.

[Seapony]

and i'd have thought an office full of women would have been adept at bringing a lowly man down to size and putting him in his place.. lol ;)
Yea, I was thinking the same thing. Unless he's romancing them or they've all got the hots for him I don't see why they'd all automatically rally around the only guy in the office. Hm...

:)

[captain spanky]

i used to be the only bloke in a female office and i had holes in my head from all the hen-pecking :D

[Emmanize]

Thanks for the advice guys.

I would say it’s more a case of me starting the projects by building and designing the websites, and then he will show people what “we” have done. He always dose the “look what we have done” bit, so that wont help, and I never know his done it until AFTERWARDS. I am not 100% sure if it’s because its all women in the office, but women in the UK are very much like that. In the UK in (most cases) women are very bitchy towards other women but kiss the blokes arse. I would say the UK is a very sexist country, and always thought so. But like I said I am not 100% sure if it’s the case here, but they seem very reluctant to approach me. It’s almost like they have been programmed to approach Steve, or that its habit. Or they just assume he knows what his doing because his a guy.

I don’t help him on his projects….he just takes over and changes mine. At the beginning all the projects where mine because I single handed built all the web site. We are due to build the Dubai air show website soon…I suppose ill end up doing the layout for that as well on my own. But it will be him that gets told its great and receive all the thanks and glory, and ill just be sat there as the work drone. I have told him all this and he just doesn’t seem bothered, or he will suggest something and it never gets done. When I told him I thought of leaving he did look worried.

I am going to talk the HR and the managing director (our boss) asap.

[Seapony]

Thanks for the advice guys.
I am going to talk the HR and the managing director (our boss) asap.

Good move. If for any other reason, at least to increase your pay scale to ABOVE his. Make the headache worthwhile somehow.

Otherwise, I would just tell them to arrange a meeting. You're not bitching, this is a case of professional credit and reputation, which sometimes makes all the difference in a job or promotion. They can schedule a review, think, "Hey, Steve is the man! He came in the same time with Emma and look how much he's helped her! Such a natural leader," and promote him (or give him a raise).

Also make sure they don't try to turn this into a case of the 28 days if you know what I mean. Defend yourself, but stay in control particularly in front of the folks that write your check and will likely become a referral for you later on. I imagine you have more than enough to state your case against him.

Good Luck. Again.

:)