giving estimated completion dates

[bejamshi]

Hi, when you give estimated completion date, do you consider working days or weekends too?

For example my deadlines are estimated which means they know that the contract has to be signed and returned to me with the down payment before work can begin. so if the client is late the deadlines will also be extended.

Does this make sense?

How do you word your dealines, do you indicate them by Date, Number of days to complete?http://www.allgraphicdesign.com/phpBB2/images/smilies/rabbit2.gif

[SurfPark]

This is totally up to you. Most people do not consider weekends because its typical that the person that needs to approve the work won't be able to see it on the weekend. The decision to include weekends is totally dependent on your prefrence and the type of client. If you include weekends, the projects will be done sooner.

I think its wise to give yourself some time off, regardless. When you write a contract, do it by date. That way you'll have a whole block of time that can be deligated anyway you choose.

[DesignStudio]

Well there's issues either way. If you state a date, and the client is late giving your materials or signing your contract, you're stuck with a hard date. If you say 14 days from the date the contract and all materials are delivered, then you have to specify if you mean 14 business days, or 14 total days. Like I said in my reply to your other post, I'm not even convinced it's necessary to include an actual date or time estimate in your contract at all. If you give anything, make it just that; and estimate- and give it outside the contract. Unless you need that do-or-die date looming over you to get your work done, don't put yourself in a situation where the client can cause you to break a promise you made. My contract not only doesn't include a deadline- but it states that if the client causes extended delays, I can bill for my time in the project so far while I'm waiting for work to resume. I've had to use this clause a few times, when clients are "getting feedback from friends", "gathering materials", or "mulling it over", for up to a month or more.

I've seen alot of small business contracts, and for some reason designer's tend to have the most well balanced contracts I've seen. Most businesses' contracts are rather one sided in their favor, that's the way of the world, and I think there's no harm in following suit with most other businesses in this regard. I know none of that really answers your question, but that's not a question that someone else can really answer exactly for you anyway. What you're really asking is "what worked for you?" , so this is what worked for me.

So Surfpark, if you check back to this thread, where in MI are you from? I grew up in Southeastern MI, and went to school in Ann Arbor.

[PrintDriver]

All contracts I have contain due dates and a schedule of deliverables on both sides. No open ended contracts.

Whether or not you work weekends depends on how good an estimator you are, and whether or not you pay yourself overtime and accounted for that as well. I'm a firm believer in the concept of rush and overtime charges.

[SpugNothuson]

I never put the date into the contract.

The client lets me know when their preferred completion date is and then I consult my timetable to see if its possible.

When the proofs go to the clients I give them a timeframe in which to respond by in order to meet their deadline. If I haven't heard back from them and I need an answer I send them a very polite email informing them that they are jeopardising their deadline. At this point they either get their fingers out of their rears or extend the deadline. Either way I'm not having to work till midnight to satisfy a client that can't keep track of time (I've not quoted for overtime, so I'll be damned if I'm doing it).

[budafist]

I'm a firm believer in the concept of rush and overtime charges.

I wish that happened at my work. We've had jobs emailed, set up, plated, on the press, perforated, trimmed and delivered in under 2 hours. We told the client that the ink would still be wet and there would be an imprint on the back, but it was a single sided job and they said they didn't care.

Ink normally takes at least 4 hours to dry before we will think about trimming and packing a job.

[bejamshi]

buda just wondering how are the sheets kept so they don't touch eachother if the ink is wet.

[DesignStudio]

Finally Spug, someone who agrees with me on not including a deadline in the contract. Frankly, I know that I can make practically any deadline, the question is whether the client is willing to pay for it, and cooperate to make it happen. I like the idea of presenting the timetable though. I have had clients complain about the time on a project, and I pointed them to their own delays, but I had to use dated emails to do it. Having the timetable would have been helpful, so they could clearly see what dates they missed.

One of the most well thought out clauses I've ever seen in any contract, was when I used to be a carpenter, the contractor I worked for had a clause in his contract that stated that if the clients made any changes to the plan once work had begun, or if they delayed the timetable making decisions or getting supplies, then all deadlines were void. I can't recall a single job where we ever ended up being held to the final deadline, since changes and delays are inevitable, and this way the client could clearly see who caused it.

[SpugNothuson]

buda just wondering how are the sheets kept so they don't touch eachother if the ink is wet.

A fine powder is sprayed between each sheet (there are other ways but I believe this is the most common) which is practically invisible. However as each sheet is printed and then sropped into a stack there is also a layer of air between each sheet as well.

The set off (ink on the back of the sheet above) becomes an issue when a job that has not been given adequate time to dry is put through a process that forces pressure on the stack. The most common one of these is trimming the job in a guillotine. A whopping great clamp comes down to hold the stack in place whilst the blade chops through 1,000plus sheets at a time. This clamp pressure can be measured in tons on some guillotine tables.

It not a case of not letting the sheets touch each other its a case of not letting the sheets be compressed together.

In my first week as an originator at a litho company one of the printers gave me an absolute rollocking. I was stood talking to him getting some advise when I decided to take the weight off my feet. I sat on a stack of freshly printed sheets that just happened to be at perfect bum resting height. Never did that again!

[SpugNothuson]

Finally Spug, someone who agrees with me on not including a deadline in the contract.

In my first drafts of my contracts I did try to include deadlines, but I ended up including so many different clauses to rule that if they did something to jeopardise it then that part of the contract was null and void.

Ended up being easier to just inform the client how long they had to respond at each stage. For example I sent an email out on Friday for a fairly simple 6pp Roll Fold DL, the last line of the email states that I need the corrections by first thing Wednesday (i.e. waiting for me when I get to work) so that a final proof can be supplied and then off to the printers by last thing Friday. If by Tuesday noon I have not received any word from them I send them an email reminding them of the approaching deadline.

[SpugNothuson]

Oops, double post.

[budafist]

A fine powder is sprayed between each sheet (there are other ways but I believe this is the most common) which is practically invisible. However as each sheet is printed and then sropped into a stack there is also a layer of air between each sheet as well.

The set off (ink on the back of the sheet above) becomes an issue when a job that has not been given adequate time to dry is put through a process that forces pressure on the stack. The most common one of these is trimming the job in a guillotine. A whopping great clamp comes down to hold the stack in place whilst the blade chops through 1,000plus sheets at a time. This clamp pressure can be measured in tons on some guillotine tables.

It not a case of not letting the sheets touch each other its a case of not letting the sheets be compressed together.

In my first week as an originator at a litho company one of the printers gave me an absolute rollocking. I was stood talking to him getting some advise when I decided to take the weight off my feet. I sat on a stack of freshly printed sheets that just happened to be at perfect bum resting height. Never did that again!

Spug is smart :) Even if he still hasn't tried an avocado.

[bejamshi]

Spung great tips, thanks. It is always good to learn more about printing.