Tapout

[skitzo]

Hi,

I'm a newbie to graphic design - I figured I'd start out with trying to make a logo. I'm trying to use photoshop cs3.

I am trying to figure out how the Tapout logo is done.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u309/tarvispeele/tapoutlogo.gif

I don't see that effect built into photoshop text choices (can I download more?) and I'm having problems finding what font they used.

Can anyone help?

Thanks!

[budafist]

Hi Skitzo and welcome to GDF.

To start off, Photoshop is not a logo design program. Illustrator is the industry standard to create logos. I would say that the tapout logo was first drawn by hand, scanned, and then redrawn in illustrator using the pen tool and other tools on there. If you are not familiar with the pen tool, now is the time to get practicing!

If you have access to Illustrator it is invaluable for logo design.

It's best to avoid Photoshop for any designs that are vector or text based.

[DesignStudio]

In addition to what Buda said, reverse engineering other logos, or trying to emulate other people's art, isn't necessarily the best way to develop your own style and skill set.

[CkretAjint]

Bulge? Warp? Arc?

[skitzo]

Thanks for the replies... ugh I don't have illustrator!! The only progrmas I have are photoshop - paintshop Pro - and a little fun program for really basic stuff called "The Logo Creator"

The reason I'm trying to recreate other logo's is because I don't have a logo to create ;-) Ha! But I figured if I ever made one for a friend or a club or something I'd say "so what style do you like?" and try to make it look similar to whatever they picked. I seem to like the "UFC" type logo's.

Ok, forgive the ignorance.... but what is the difference with a vector logo and a .tiff (for example). I mean if I type in "TAPOUT" in illustrator can I save that as a vector or is there something crazy I have to do?

[DesignStudio]

So it sounds like you're really just getting started, I'd recommend going to your library and getting a couple of books for beginning graphic design. You won't regret it if you buy a few either. You can do a search, there's a thread somewhere about books people recommend on design. Any of them would be good, if you're really interested in logos, I'd pay special attention to the books that Jeff Fisher recommends. Or he has some recommendations and books he wrote on his website- I think it's logomotives.com.

The basic difference is that vector remembers shapes using mathmatics, and bitmap files remember pixels, that form shapes. So if you want to enlarge a vector circle, it remembers the circle shape and still looks like a circle. If you enlarge a bitmap circle, it becomes pixelated and looks jagged. That's a bit oversimplified, but I couldn't tell you everything you need to know about vector art in one post anyway.

As for Illustrator, if you're serious about logos, especially doing it professionally on any levels, then you need to get the proper tools. Running a logo business without Illustrator is like trying to start a landscaping business without a lawnmower. You can cut a lawn with just a weedwacker, but it will suck and your finished product wont' be a good as it could. Secondly, you should throw out your "logo creator" program- that's a program for laymen, and it's barely good enough for them. I wouldn't recommend any business anywhere use a logo from one of those CD programs.

You're on the right track with wanting to practice your skills. But again, recreating very well known logos isn't the best way to do it. It's going to build bad practices on your part. When you go to do a paying client's logo, you'll be in the habit of copying or reworking existing logos, which can cause designer's block or lawsuits. Instead consider trying inventing fake businesses, like "Lawnman Landscaping service", and creating a logo for that from scratch. It's a better way to practice, and working from scratch is a better representation of real industry experience. Good luck and happy reading!

[Red Kittie Kat]

.. and as far as the Tapout logo .. I don't believe its a font. I believe it was drawn in Illi ;)

[skitzo]

Oh geez - I'm not thinking of doing anything professionnal. I'm just interested in it. I see these logo's everywhere I go and think "that doesn't look too hard" and as it turns out it is. When someone calls up one of those embroidery places or a silk screen place, you can tell them what you want and they seem to have it on file already. I assume they're using some professional piece of software? or are they using illustrator?

[Vespertine]

I suggest you buy an older version of Illustrator to pratice. It'll be more affordable. I saw cheap ones on this website: http://store.retrosoftware.net/buy-used-and-old-version-adobe-software--adobe-illustrator-for-windows.html

In the mean time, try practicing with the pen tool in Photoshop. It's similar to the one in Illustrator (but not as user friendly). For practice, open the Tapout logo in photoshop and try to trace it with the pen tool. You really need to practice how to use bezier curves and the carrot tool...imperitive with logo design. I won't lie to you, it will take lots of practice but if you keep at it, you'll get the knack of it.

[Spunky Nerd]

You can download inkscape for free... it's a vector program much like illustrator and you can save in a lot of different format, I would download that and mess around with it instead of trying anything in photoshop...

http://www.inkscape.org/

[budafist]

Oh geez - I'm not thinking of doing anything professionnal. I'm just interested in it.

Well, you might as well start your interest doing things right. You never know, maybe your hobby will turn out into a career and if it does you don't want years of bad habits to break out of!

I see these logo's everywhere I go and think "that doesn't look too hard" and as it turns out it is.

It's not hard. Anyone that can use Illy can do it. ;) This kind of thing would be taught in the in the first week of Illustrator classes.

When someone calls up one of those embroidery places or a silk screen place, you can tell them what you want and they seem to have it on file already. I assume they're using some professional piece of software? or are they using illustrator?

What embroidery places already have these things on file? Do you mean the Tapout logo in particular? Or do you mean warped text? All artwork needs t be recreated, supplied, or stolen from somewhere.

[skitzo]

Ok.. you're not going to believe this... That Tapout logo was done with "Word". I just tried it out with "impact" and didn't bother trying to figure out how the outline went but there it is. Someone e-mailed me and said they read an article stating that it was done with Microsoft word so I tried it... I can't believe it....:eek:

I going to try those vector prg's you all suggested - I hear really good things about that Xara one.... what about ease of use?

There are more advanced logo's tapout uses on their website so perhaps I'll try one of those - I like the 'mean' looking logo's so I guess the next step is finding some UFC type fonts.. any suggestions?

[Red Kittie Kat]

Xara is a great vector program. There is a learning curve but it comes with loads of tutorials ... watch them and practice. It took me a good couple weeks to get an sort of handle on it and that was just for the basics. But with any program such as this, practice practice practice :)

[Ned]

.. and as far as the Tapout logo .. I don't believe its a font. I believe it was drawn in Illi ;)

Yes - the text first drawn in Illustrator as a flat piece, then the final distortion done as an "Envelope Warp". In other words, drawing the shape of the distortion, then filling it with the rectangular text object. Easy peasy, but you'll have to learn Illustrator.

My personal opinion of that logo... I think it was very well done, as far as flat, undistorted portion. The warp was unecessary if you ask me.

[Ned]

Xara is a great vector program.

I thought Xara was a mix vector/raster program, much like the one Microsoft recently released?

As far as cheaper options besides Illustrator, I could suggest Corel Draw, which used to be an industry standard long time ago, and is produced by a company who's original aim was to produce software that was affordable to everyone.

You could also look for older software versions, which you may be able to buy used off ebay, amazon, or something like that. Illustrator 8, 9, 10, or CS will do you perfectly fine for all your logo design needs! It is the person BEHIND the software that creates a quality logo. Of course there's also Macromedia Freehand, but you may as well learn on Illustrator, since Freehand is no longer a non-Adobe alternative.

[Red Kittie Kat]

Nope its a vector based Illustration program :)

At least it was when I reviewed it lol .. but things change so fast ya never know :D

[Crimson]

Ok.. you're not going to believe this... That Tapout logo was done with "Word". I just tried it out with "impact" and didn't bother trying to figure out how the outline went but there it is. Someone e-mailed me and said they read an article stating that it was done with Microsoft word so I tried it... I can't believe it....:eek:

I going to try those vector prg's you all suggested - I hear really good things about that Xara one.... what about ease of use?

There are more advanced logo's tapout uses on their website so perhaps I'll try one of those - I like the 'mean' looking logo's so I guess the next step is finding some UFC type fonts.. any suggestions?

Not surprized. Microsoft isn't stupid just extremely frustrating and not so intuitive. People who know the software well can work in many amazing ways. Word can use the same math that illustrator uses they just might use different formulas. Then trying to get it out of word into a vector format can be a few extra hurdles. Just because word can doesn't mean you should. What would really help you is understanding how you logo will be used in the future. Vector can lead to many raster options but it doesn't always work so well in reverse.

Logos are not always easy. Sometimes they look so easy that it is hard. It is easier to make things complicated. Simplifing can be just as much as an art form that you never realized. I have a nagging feeling that you are just looking for shortcuts. In the end, it is going to affect your quality or success in many things you attempt. I think you can learn a lot in imitating but keep it to learning and not shortcutting. You can also learn that plagarism to get an assignment done is a lesson in trouble and not so enriching. Be patient and keep working at it.

[vtwin_gary]

dangit!
i bet i've looked at this thread 5 times expecting a fight.
another board i go to has a thread open now about Kimbo Slice (http://www.kimboslice.org/)

[Spunky Nerd]

Im telling you, if price is an issue, just try out inkscape... not the same quality, but its free and its vector... might as well downlaoad it and see what you can do with it...

[skitzo]

I'm on the inkscape site right now but I don't see a 64 bit version..... I'm using XP-64. I'm missing something...

I'm not actually looking for shortcuts - but rather affordability and ease of use.

[DesignStudio]

I'm not incredibly surprised that the logo was originally done in Word. Mask (The founder of tapout) does all the "creative" aspects of the business himself, and refuses help or intervention. He shoots his own ad photos, and does all his own logo and design work. While this is admirable, I don't know that it makes for the best possible design. I think Tapout mainly happened to be in the right place at the right time in the explosion of MMA popularity- rather than a successful logo having anything to do with their successful business. Despite it being a good line for a potential client, I'm not really a true believer that a good logo makes or breaks your business- I think marketing revenue and marketing opportunities frankly have more to do with it. A business with big ad dollars will succeed dispite the world's worst logo (http://www.midas.com/). There are MMA brands, Affliction for example, which have much better designs, not created in Word, that aren't as well known. Ok, so I got sidetracked a bit here, but my point to this whole tirade is that if you're interested in design, there are alot of aspects of logo creation where your time would be better spent than analyzing the Tapout logo, which despite it's business success, is marginal at best from a design standpoint.