I WANT TO BECOME A GRAPHIC ARTIST

[Lorne]

Here's the deal. I'm sick of my job. I've been a machinist for 15 years. I'm 36 with a wife, two kids and a mortgage. I've often dreamed of being a fine artist specializing in portrait painting. I've sold many commissioned portraits but it's not near stable enough for me to make a living at it. I'm thinking about getting a degree online in graphic art. What are some of your thoughts on online degrees? How difficult is it to get a degree this way? Will I get as good an education as if I were actually attending classes? Which schools are good? How many of you actually like what you do and enjoy getting up and going to work? How many of you are self employed? (I want to work in my pajamas at home.) Am I being a ridiculous dreamer for even thinking it? Help Please!

[Drorain]

go to a local Community college before you do an online course, its just as cheap, and believe me u need to be amongst peers for the learning you'll do for graphic art

http://www.grivakisgraphics.com/images/img_logomark.jpg

~Everyday, All the Time, Without Fail!

[fylee216]

Don't go online to study art or design. You need to go to school to share or learn design ideas with others.

[wango]

Im self employed (freelance) & I would have to agree with Drorain & fylee216. Online courses are good in moderation, lets say - you want to graduate early and take an art history, engish composition & math class online. Thier is no substitute for hands on learning, and like Drorain said, sometimes you learn almost as much from your peers as you do the instructors.

http://www.geocities.com/wangaworks_design/logo_preview.gif (http://www.wangaworks.com)

[fylee216]

Hi vwanga,

Since you are a freelancer, would you tell me how much would you charge for a 4 pages full color brochure? Thanks

Fylee216

[DeZiner]

As for my two cents: I knowa couple of individuals who graduated succesfully from college on-line. Though I'm sure attending class is best for most people, going on-line will work better for me for various reasons (schedule, lifestyle, location, etc.) Basically my point is you have to make the decision that will fit your personal situation best. For you Lorne,you have a family to think about, and I believe that should be seriously cosidered. How much time do you need to spend with your family? (obviously as much time as possible.)will going to college on campus take away too muchfamily time? or, are the kids at an age where they would be a distraction to you if you were totake classesat home on-line? Will you still be working while taking classes? if so, how willthe jobschedule work out with the class schedule? My daily schedule is not normal at all. By going on-line, classes will take 5 hours a day - whenever I chose to take them, not always at 8 or 9am sharp. This works for me, but maybe not for everyone. Good advice from everyone so far, but please don't be so quick to shoot on-line learning down-especially if you've never experienced it. Hope everything works out Lorne.

[defjoe]

getting a degree and getting a JOB in this industry are too comepletely different things. you don't get the degree and POOF you have a job, as most noobs are learning, that is FAR from the truth.

This industry has the stigma that people think 'well I'm sick of XXXX job so I was creative 2000 years ago so I'll become a graphic artist, everyone can do that'

reality will set in very soon.

be prepared for a LONG hard road.

'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'
'I'm the damn designer, bitches!'

Check out my indie comic book!
www.assassinsguild.net/ (http://www.assassinsguild.net/)

[coconut]

My two cents:
By all means follow your dreams. Fine Arts does not equall graphic artist. Here is a discription of what I do in my line of work.
Build Ads,
Build Websites, manipulate pictures, upload to publish, copy wright information
Brochures, cards, mailers, newsletters
Layout and design magazines
sell my art, sketchings, paintings, illustration
photography
signs
bill boards
logo design
pre press
sales person

There is not enough time or room to list all the things and all the programs and all the supplies needed to do this.
Being that you have major experience as being a machinest (around $35 an hour job with a steady paycheck) I would think that you might fare better at choosing to do something in the artistic field related to autocad. Do you watch American Chopper?
I don't see a get rich quick by going to school deal in your future. Going to school and getting a great job or having your own business with great amounts of money right off the bat is not a realistic view. You have to have an initial talent and years, years and years of experience. In fact you can have all the schooling in the world, unless you have the work experience and talent, forget it. You can look at making between 8-10 an hour straight out of school unless by some great force you turn out to be the gaundi of design.
It wouldn't hurt, in my view, for you to invest in art supplies, since you like fine art, and spend your evening painting or drawing. They say you have to sell at least 200 before you can say you are truly a fine artist. Learn some designing programs, I use quark, indesign, freehand, photoshop, corel, acrobat, photoshop, fireworks, dreamweaver, illustrator, you must have some layout and design skills, and all the office software, word, works, exell, presentation programs. Do you think you will be able to learn all of these and all the requirements to send products to press, marketing skills, do you have them?
I have to know all of these and a few more to work in the field.
Good luck in what you do, but consider the fact that you have a family to feed and if you learn these programs you could always try to get a few clients, maybe start off with friends and family members and see if you are going to like this field. It may turn out to be your passion, then again it may be a dead end road.
We don't all sit around and work in our pj's, but I agree that would be ideal.

Coconuthttp://www.adleragency.net/ads/pearbug.jpg

[D-Zine]

Though I agree that taking online courses does have its perks, such as taking them at your convenience...for this field I do believe that IF you're going to go to school, that you would be much better off actually attending classes...in person.

This is a VISUAL field. I don't believe I could have gotten the feedback that I needed on my work if I were not in a classroom enviroment. You need that classroom participation - IMO. You need those weekly critiques from your professors and your classmates as well. The critiques are one of the most important things about these classes. How can you get feedback from you classmates in an online class? You can't...bc you have no classmates. This is my most important reason for not being behind taking online courses for graphic design. Sure you can take your art history course or anythign academic this way - fine...bc you don't need feedback...but not your VISUAL courses - that's just my opinion of course.

Interaction with your classmates in your actual design classes with your final critiques is the best help that you can get. You need that bc when you get out in the real world bc you will be atleast somewhat prepared for the comments on your work you will receive - both good and bad. And there WILL be bad, trust me. These critiques in school help you learn from other people and help you learn how to give and recieve that constructve critisism bc believe me...sometimes its not easy to hear!

As far as actually being IN the field...I love graphic design...I love what I do. This is not an easy field to get started in and you will start at the bottom but you have to start somewhere. Take whatever chance you can to get your foot in the door - reguardless of pay bc you will need the 'real life' experience. School is good but doesn't even come close to teaching you what the real world does!!!!!

Oh and welcome to the GDF! ;o)

Boobie Island or Bust!

Post Edited (D-Zine) : 9/30/2004 12:36:50 PM GMT

[Big Perm-dizzle]

first run for your life

second fine art and graphic design are two different animals

fine artists are usually thought to have intellengence and skill on the flip side everyone things they can lay a catalog, make a logo and build a website, we get no respect

www.hirethisdesigner.com (http://www.hirethisdesigner.com) - portfolio
www.conceptprint.com (http://www.conceptprint.com) - the company I work for

[coconut]

oh yea, sorry welcome aboard, this is a great place to gain experience and friendship, there is a wealth of information to be gained by everyone and there are also links at the top to design tools you also need. I also love the line of work i'm in. It does get into your blood. And true, it is a humble experience.

Coconuthttp://www.adleragency.net/ads/pearbug.jpg

[Debz]

Im taking 3 classes right now. 2 in school and 1 online. The online class is Intro to Advertising Layout and Design. I had to take it online because its only avail during the day and I work full time monday thru friday. WELL I am disapointed with the online class. You will NOT get what you could get out of it.

My teacher is cool and is trying to do critiques with webpages and crap like that.. But.. its not the same. In school you learn more about the tools w/in the programs.. You dont have a teacher say.. Oh well you can do this.. you can do that.

In school you can go over other issues you have and get as much out of it as possible!! If your paying $300 for that class. work to get $600 out of that class..

Maybe in MANY years Distance Learning with hands on stuff will work. Ya never know.. But right now.. I dont see it happening.

* Vote Debz 2004 *

I will end terrorism, Stupidity, Laziness and eliminate all the slackers who drag us down. Do not screw wit me.. buahaha! Debz - 2004

[PrintDriver]

I'm with Joe.
Why do people think we work in our pajamas? Though some nites here I wish I brought em so I wouldn't have to drive all the way home at 3am.

Anyone can do anything they set their mind to doing but take a look around this forum at guys and gals who have been at this a while who are looking for jobs, can't find jobs, or can't even get interviews. And you have a family to support in the meantime.

If you get an on-line degree, who's gonna tell you if your portfolio is any good?
Do you know any programs? Illustrator, InDesign, Quark, Photoshop would be a good place to start.

I've always thought being a musician would be easy. There are only so many notes that come out of a Saxaphone right? Well, it ain't that easy. On 2 years now and I still wouldn't play in public.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

[Debz]

I kinda work in my Pajamas.. I wear sweats to work and i wear old sweats to bed. ;) lol

* Vote Debz 2004 *

I will end terrorism, Stupidity, Laziness and eliminate all the slackers who drag us down. Do not screw wit me.. buahaha! Debz - 2004

[idaho]

Lorne,

Attend classes - you'll get much more out of it. Keep in mind that by actually going to classes at a university give you access to computer labs with the software you'll need to complete your projects. If you take classes online you'll have to buy a lot of software. That can get expensive fast. I'm not saying that it's a bad idea to buys the software, I'm just saying that it's gonna get expensive. You'll have face-to-face instructor interaction and classmates to help work out issues. You'll also make the connections you need to get a decent job when you are done.

I wish you luck in whatever you decide to do however, before you decide to make this switch do your homework and find out what graphic designers are making where you live. It may look like a fun field (and it is most of the time) but it's almost always a stressful and, at times, low paying field. You'll probably make more money as a machinist. Graphic designers don't make much right out of school. Usually around $24-28k (I'm just basing it on personal experience of looking for a job and trying to hire people for jobs). There are designers who are able to make a living doing freelance work and nothing else (I applaud those who do), but I would guess that the vast majority of designers work for other companies. If you are just getting started as a graphic designer I would not recommend the self-employment route.

Just my $.02! Good luck!!!

[BuckarooB]

Run-Away!!!!</font> </font>

Sorry, that's just the reefer talking...

Whoa! Leave honest work with a future and meaning for GD or Portraiture? Think it through. Don't bite off the heart ache. Just jamb your noggin into the lathe right now and get the pain out of the way.

Don't machinist make more than most of you GDs out there? And I know they make more than yer average portraitist. I think a machinist gets more respect than a GD or any other artist does as well...

Design and create a Margarita machine that can be rolled out to the Lanai and you'll be a lot better off!

Good Luck, BTW. Hope it works out for you.

http://www.zzpop.com/ImageServe/PirateBanzaiSig.gif

Post Edited (BuckarooB) : 9/30/2004 8:53:23 PM GMT

[woodwardo]

I say go for it.

As far as school goes, if you know someone in the industry or can somehow get in somewhere doing it, you'll learn more and learn it faster. Plus you might even get a paycheck. Otherwise I agree go to the actual classes. Maybe try night classes, and keep your job until you get a feel for what it entails?? Personally I love going to work, ok well maybe not love, but I don't mind at all and it's quite fun sometimes. Now if my freelancing would pay me as much as my 'real' job, I'd be set!

You'll never know if you don't try. And like they say... It's better to have done something and not like it, than to never have done it at all. Good luck in whatever you decide.

wooDy

-- eff.

[Lorne]

Thanks everyone for your responses. Don't get me wrong, I know that graphic art isn't an easy job. I just think it would be one that I'd enjoy more than machining.
How's this for stress? I work on $250,000 jet engine parts which I have to cut to tolerances of plus or minus .002 (about the size of a human hair) with a supervisor who has never ran a machine asking absurd questions like: 'Why is this taking you so long?' and 'What could we do to make this faster?' and 'How could we make this fool-proof so that anyone could do it really quickly without ever making a mistake?' Then when we get pushed so hard to speed up that we make a mistake, I get this> 'Hey, you need to slow down and do the job right.' Yaaaayyyy! All this fun and money too!
I forgot to mention that my company will pay 100% of any courses that go toward a degree whether or not it is related to the field I work in. They also pay a nice sum in stocks for a completed associates degree and 2x that sum for a bachelor's. I just can't imagine going to school every day after work and not getting to see my family. That's why I'm considering doing something online.
Coconut, you mentioned autocad. That's something I hear a lot about in my field. I'm going to do some research on it.
Thanks

[PrintDriver]

Autocad is not graphic design. It is a draftsman tool. What they use now instead of compasses and really sharp pencils.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

[Kool]

Lorne said...

How's this for stress? I work on $250,000 jet engine parts which I have to cut to tolerances of plus or minus .002 (about the size of a human hair) with a supervisor who has never ran a machine asking absurd questions like: 'Why is this taking you so long?' and 'What could we do to make this faster?' and 'How could we make this fool-proof so that anyone could do it really quickly without ever making a mistake?' Then when we get pushed so hard to speed up that we make a mistake, I get this> 'Hey, you need to slow down and do the job right.' Yaaaayyyy! All this fun and money too!
Thanks

LOL, Lorne you just described every GD job except maybe freelance. /emoticons/cool.gif

I love children but I don't think I could eat a whole one.

[coconut]

autocad is a draftsman tool for sure and with your experience I think you could be in the 100thousand a year club.
The stress is the same for us buddy, we are hurried and mistakes happen and all, but it's not a jet engine. That seems to be much more important than a $100 thousand a year client! Speed is a need in our field. Pokey don't get you know where. Late night deadlines. People can just bite some times ya know.
Go for the schooling but i am seeing with your experience and understanding taking what you do to the highest level with education and getting a designing degree as well. We are all here to help you, just let us know what you need.
Most of us aren't rich, we just have good take, hey were designers :) and we design stuff for rich people

Coconuthttp://www.adleragency.net/ads/pearbug.jpg

[coconut]

actually I have heard photoshop as being referred to as an autocad program!

Coconuthttp://www.adleragency.net/ads/pearbug.jpg

[coconut]

^^ up two, that was good taste.. geeze!

Coconuthttp://www.adleragency.net/ads/pearbug.jpg

[PrintDriver]

LOL @ Kool.
And can you get that PMS color to match to the nearest micron please? Pleasing just won't do for this here very important Yard Sale banner.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

[D-Zine]

Hahaha! As my boss told me once...'what are you stressed about? All you have to do it push a few buttons, right?'

DAMN good thing I know he's a joker and a teaser or else his a$$ woulda been in a headlock or sumpin! ;o)

Boobie Island or Bust!

[defjoe]

'Can i add this paragraph into my magazine layout?

what?

no it won't reflow THAT bad will it?'

'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'
'I'm the damn designer, bitches!'

Check out my indie comic book!
www.assassinsguild.net/ (http://www.assassinsguild.net/)

[Debz]

I know you meantioned that you wouldnt wanna be away from your family everynight.. well what i am doing is this:

I work full time during the day in a print shop.. (great experince BTW)

and Im taking 3 classes right now.. 3 classes might be a lot for you being away from your family but I figure with 3 classes ill have my associates degree in 3.5 years. NOW.. its fun too cuz it doesnt seem like school. Im very interested in what I am learning and pretty much love school (even tho last nite drove me NUTS).

So maybe make those classes your hobby where you'll only miss 2 nights a week or something.. Which could replace you going out or whatever if you even do that.. I am sure your busy with a family. But with something you know is your true calling or something you love to do.. it will satisfy you so much. I feel 100% complete now that i am in school for what i love..

*</font> Vote</font> Debz</font> &</font> DD</font> 2004</font> *</font>

I will end terrorism</font>, Stupidity</font>, Laziness</font> and eliminate all the slackers who drag us down</font>. Do not screw wit me.. buahaha! Debz & DD - 2004</font>

[D-Zine]

Exactly Joe or how about my fave...your DONE with your layout...just making PDFs for the press...salesperon comes up...'Ohhh I just realized that I forgot to give you this 1/4 page ad!! Can you get it in??''

HELL NO I can't...dumb@$$!!! :o)

Boobie Island or Bust!