New to the industry? Read this now before it's to late!!!

[Neinbalance]

I found this article through creativelatitude.com

this is not an AD so please be sure to read it through before banning me.

I got real fired up at the end the writer gets all in to it like he is slamming his index finger in your chest. I for one get very depressed when looking at the sites he mentions in the article.

have a look, http://www.graphicpush.com/articles/wormhole.shtmlhttp://www.graphicdesignforum.com/emoticons/cheers.gif

[defjoe]

this is more and more common, it's a shame and it's only going to get worse.

'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'
'I'm the damn designer, bitches!'

Check out my indie comic book!
www.assassinsguild.net/ (http://www.assassinsguild.net/)

[ReedHendrix]

I'm a recent graduate and I would never sell myself like some of these idiots, I honestly don't know what they think they're going to gain... definitely not money. Most of these web sites etc are set up by people who think to themselves 'I was a OK at art when I was a kid... loved finger painting... I know I'll become a graphic design... now where's the swoosh tool.'
I never realised how much a problem this was until joining this forum... hope it doesn't become this bad in the UK.

[morea]

LOL @ 'where's the swoosh tool?'

You've gotta do what you've gotta do.

[PrintDriver]

I don't think it's a whiny-ass article but it sure doesn't impress me much. Kinda ho-hum.
It's the obvious truth. And not a lot can be done about it. Printers are in the same boat. Offshore printing is killing our business too but our shop and our outsources have a rep for quality that educated clients are willing to pay for. Sometimes they do hop to the cheaper route but almost always come back saying, 'boy, you were right.'

I don't think the author actually sent them files but he may have done a little more spec work than was wise. Cuz if they loved his design they probably got someone cheaper to do a knock off. Uncontracted spec work is a definite no-no these days.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

[Magnus]

Dito to what everyone said...it's the same problem we all know of, and has been visited many times here on GDF. Nothing short of something drastic will change it at this point...for any gradual change in this field will be too slow moving to really benefit any of us.

"It's not cheating if you win."

- A VERY wise person.

[Neinbalance]

http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/emoticons/blink.gifYes I understand what you are all getting at, and I understand that the problem has been brought up. and YES it does get me fired up! In fact I think this sort of thing should be posted at least once a week in this forum, so what if "We all know about it and theres nothing we can do about it" I think that as long as we continue to make an effort to help educate others on the value of what we are doing the better off we will all be. The problem doesn't happen when we have 3/10 undercutting and selling based on price alone, the problem comes into play when we have 7/10 or worse. Thats where we are now. And I for one do not feel dumb at all for saying that it got me fired up, the particular part you are refuring to about the spec work, I believe that was not ment to come across that way, I like to think he ment the esimate for the job. Either way what I took from it was a few key points that help me to better justify charging what I knowI am worth. And it gave me a sick feeling in my stomach thinking what it will be like in 3-5 years. Everyones a freaking designer these days.

And if you feel that your time was wasted by reading this post and the attached article, then maybe you should re-read the title of the thread, Because I wish I would have read that article 5 years ago. I can remember renting my apartment living off mac and cheese meanwhile pretty much giving work away and only scrapping by.

Dont you want this forum to be here to help educate newbies? Or even better, to help to allow us make a decent living? There is something we can do and it's called EDUCATE, granted we cant go around saying dont charge this much or more, but we canlet these young designers know how valuble there talents and skills are to the client, and arm them with some knowledge to make sure they are not taken advantage of. I for one missed that class.http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/emoticons/blink.gif

[PrintDriver]

About the only thing that is going to fix this is licensing.
And I'd be afraid to let the art guilds do it (like GAG or AIGA). They are way to clique-like.
Us printers should band together and start a GD registry. Get approved by us and never worry about getting your stuff printed, discounts for passing the test, certified 'Print Ready'. Show your clients you can save em money and get quality work printed. The overnight artists cost us so much time and aggravation it's cheaper if we pay them $200 to go away.
Hmm? Hmmm....
(you web guys are on your own.)

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

[Neinbalance]

Ramon Noodles where sunday-thurday and friday and saturday would be the mac and cheese.

I'm confused as to why you said it sounded like a promo? I have been busting away at this for at least 5 years I can remember. And no I have never once used quark. I'm so wierd.

For every one of us that charge and operate like professionals There must be what, 4, 5, 6, overnights? So figure how much over the years will we loose? Lets ban together and take printdrivers idea serious. 5x$200 is only a grand, we can make up some kind of 'I'll never do any kind of communication arts as long as I live.' contract.

But eh... whos going to go first? NOT IT!

[Neinbalance]

http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/emoticons/offtopic.gif So how bout those undercutting whore overnight designers killing the industryeh?


Well I have been giving it some thought and I'm thinking for be people who only want to pay the 100 for a logo, let them. It only makes it easier for a well thought out logo to shine. does everyone think that there will always be a decent food chain in place? I think that there will always be the clients that go for the 100$ logo and then there are the companies that are serious about there business.


I'm thinking that educating clients is the key here, maybe?

Post Edited (Neinbalance) : 10/2/2004 1:24:10 AM GMT

[Kool]

Now now kids be nice. Once it starts getting personal it gets my attention. Let's just agree to disagree and let this go. If you still have some steam to let off go over to that debate thread.

Your friendly moderator /emoticons/cool.gif

I love children but I don't think I could eat a whole one.

[PrintDriver]

Seems you two have a communication gap.
You've got two mods' attention now.
Let it drop or we'll lock the thread.
Neinbalance we don't go in for name calling or personal attacks.
Warned once.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

[Kool]

Neinbalance, are you trying to piss us off?

I love children but I don't think I could eat a whole one.

[Neinbalance]

.

Sure.

[PrintDriver]

You are both welcome to delete all off-topic threads if you want to get this post back on line. No one is gonna read past the mud.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

[Neinbalance]

Man this thread makes no sense.

Sure.

[Magnus]

It doesn't make sense to me either...I read it and it looks like posts were either deleted or...something.

I'm not even sure what sparked the thing in the beginning.

"It's not cheating if you win."

- A VERY wise person.

[Kool]

Damn, you had the high road here coconut. I don't know why you had to go and spoil it by trying to start things up again.

Now I have to step in. I'm going to get the last word here. /emoticons/cool.gif

I love children but I don't think I could eat a whole one.