Large format advice needed....

[mnotz]

Hello all!

I am working on a project that is a little bit bigger than anything I have done so far (aside some lettering for some tractor trailers...) and know that some of you guys on here are into the world of 2500 pt. fonts...:D

This particular graphic is supposed to cover part of an interior wall of a retail store. The wall is very smooth drywall, painted in a semi-gloss blue, kind of close to Reflex Blue. The wall is about 80' long and 20' high, the final graphic is supposed to cover a 50' x 12' area of that wall.

The concept sketches for the graphic, or mural, or whatever else one could call it has a logo with a line of text on the bottom and two upper body shots of people to either side of it. As opposed to have 5 different objects, everything will flow into each other to make the mural. The final outline of the whole project should be irregular, following the graphic, or at least the outline of the printed piece in a color very close to the wall color, to not have that "bumper sticker look".

Any advice on what printing technology / mounting would work best?

Any advice what to pay attention to when selecting a printer/sign company for the project?

Anything else I should know at this point so I don't dig myself a hole to fall into?


Thanks already in advance everybody!

Marcus.

[PrintDriver]

You have conflicting wants. Die-cut but not 'bumper sticker-like'.

You will never match the wall color perfectly unless it is being freshly painted and the painter hands you a rolled sample directly out of the can he is using.

How permanent is this installation?

Don't start designing this until you have a print vendor. You need to know output specifics before doing something this size.

Who is doing the install. Some printers don't install wall covers. They contract out. Or you have to.

[mnotz]

PrintDriver, thanks for your quick reply!

With not "bumper-sticker" I meant not having a rectangular background in a different color on the wall. Die-cut is just fine. The color match idea was a long shot, I knew about this, however the wall was just painted a week ago from what I know, it is a brand new location.

Paint sample would be no problem, but a color match, especially a close one still seems very unlikely, considering how hard it sometimes is to just get a perfect PMS match off a regular press ;-)
So the die-cut is probably the way to go to get around a rectangular outline.

I only spoke with one printer so far and wanted some more knowledge about the possibilities before I go any further. This company however would do the installation as well, as long as a lift is provided because they can not get their bucket-trucks inside the location.

As far as designing goes, I am no further than some concept sketches on paper as of yet.

The installation will be permanent and should last some years.

[MikeHun]

Mnotz

- All color pms spots will have to converted to process.

- I would guarantee UV inks to last the longest,.

- Try to spec printing directly onto a stiff substrate like 1/4"
Think Sintra is your best choice ( expanded p.v.c )

- Plus laminating the printswould ensure against scuffing from passerby's

- lay out should be in Photoshop flattened TIFF. provide laser to match colour.

- If you don't want tile- ing lines , print on a Grand-format printer like a Jeti
by Ghandi inovations, they have widths of 8 meters large for BIG stuff.

- Consult printer as to final resolution and !DON"T! tile the final image
the printer should have proper R.I.P. to output.

Q: Are you designing one continuous image?

[mnotz]

Yes, I was planning on one continuous image, unless I run into any technical limitations.

As for scuffing the image, just looked at the plans, and the bottom of the image will be at about 8' and there are 4' tall "table" like fixtures that protrude about 4' into the room in front of that wall, so I am not that worried about it.

Good point on the tiling lines, however I think that will be much dictated by what printers/equipment I can find locally.

[MikeHun]

I would watch out for applying directly onto their paint.
Try to match Ad - vinyl if you're using that... that has aggressive
adhesion qualities, If the printer sells you the cheapest adhesive vinyl
it might come off...

[D-Frag]

good luck getting anything "die cut" to apply to a wall. with my experience in this part you have 2 options to go with. wallpaper type material that large format can print directly onto then you get wallpaper hangers to do the install. OR you go the vinyl route which you could technically "die cut" but I can guarantee you it will look bad no matter what.

wall coverings/murals are supposed to cover entire surfaces, they actually need that to give the effect of being big. not saying you can't do it though. your other options may be a gator mount board that is "die cut" and museum mounted to the wall.

good luck with this one, sounds like a challenge.

[MikeHun]

Zund cutter can do the die cut I've used the technique to mock up a POP display 9' high. It's pricey...

Roland has a die cutter on a print and cut I believe SOLJET PRO III XC-540.
It's simple to go to a CNC router after you have mounted to Gator then
do the die-cut after mounting

Look for exhibit companies that specialize in the post production area.

[PrintDriver]

- All color pms spots will have to converted to process.
Only if the printer wants you to do it this way.

- I would guarantee UV inks to last the longest,.
Solvent inks last just as long as UV inks (3 years outdoors - no indoor warranties are available. No guarantees on anything. And what exactly are you guaranteeing against? Fading? Have you ever read an ink warranty?)

- Try to spec printing directly onto a stiff substrate like 1/4"
Think Sintra is your best choice ( expanded p.v.c )
Seams seams seams. And how are you going to attach it? It can be done but how are YOU gonna attach it?

- Plus laminating the printswould ensure against scuffing from passerby's
Laminating material, unless it is a hardgard type material scratches worse than unprotected solvent inks.

- lay out should be in Photoshop flattened TIFF. provide laser to match colour.
ONLY IF YOUR PRINTER REQUIRES IT THIS WAY. I would not accept a file provided in this fashion unless you take what you get in terms of color. And "match the laser" is a no win proposition. While one color may be spot on, the others will be off. Flattening the file makes it totally uneditable for color. Doing this in a proper layout program InD is usually preferred but the vendor may not mind Illy) with images placed, not embedded will get you the best results. Apply all colors using the swatch palette if color is important to you. A good printer can tweek individual pms or solids to match pretty much anything within the gamut of the inks. The paint match, given a good sample and if the paint isn't a warm red or tennisball green would probably be pretty close.

- If you don't want tile- ing lines , print on a Grand-format printer like a Jeti
by Ghandi inovations, they have widths of 8 meters large for BIG stuff.
8meters? 24+ feet? Wide? You sure? Ok, what substrate are you going to print on that is even 12' wide and solid like PVC? And how are you gonna put this on the wall. It could be done on a superwide 5 meter(16') solvent 12' x 50' seamless but how are ya gonna hang it? (It can be done, but how are YOU gonna do it?)

- Consult printer as to final resolution and !DON"T! tile the final image
the printer should have proper R.I.P. to output.
Yes, yes, yes.

Q: Are you designing one continuous image?
If you are, ask the print vendor what scale factor and what resolution they want.

On something this size I would highly recommend not die-cutting if you want it to last years and years. Die-cut vinyl shrinks and tends to lose adhesion. A month or 6 maybe... not years.

[MikeHun]

I was directly answering all possible permutations... even a continuous banner!
for no tileing Yes Jeti / Ghandi innovations look it up and you see with your eyes what grand format industrial printing is all about. The print-head housing armateur is 4' feet wide, A small person could ride in it as it traveled along the 8 metre bed.
Hanging can be accomplished with engineered fasteners, look it up.

[mnotz]

Awesome advice guys...thanks...it's all coming back to me now why I used to love GDF so much :)

I guess I will talk to some printers and see if anyone of them could come fairly close to the paint color with the background.

To make this a little more clear, we are not talking about a high profile, big dollar retail store, but a warehouse outlet store for a non-profit that operates second hand stores, and as always in these cases, there is a budget ;-)

I guess the paint match option in vinyl and having some tile-lines is the way to go for this project.

[PrintDriver]

I know what industrial printing is. Been doing it for over 10 years. I also know how to hang the stuff mentioned. With or without visible fasteners. Seamed or seamless. Probably in ways you've never even thought of that don't use off-the-shelf hardware.:D

The biggest thing Gandinnovations makes in solvent is a 5meter wide machine that prints to just a little over 16'.
Efi-Vutek, HP and several others make them just as wide.
The biggest thing Gandinnovations makes in UV flatbed is a 2meter x 3 meter flatbed machine. Efi-Vutek makes a 3meter feed-through UV printer where you aren't limited by substrate length.

The printhead on the Gandi solvent machine looks big because there are 48 heads in there. Fast SOBs too. But not many printshops can afford the $500K+ pricetag.

Where do you get your information???

If the guy is on a budget he should probably stick to some kind of seamless banner solution. Cuts down the install number big time.

[MikeHun]

I've been in Graphic design since 1980 how about that... ever wrapped a 40 story building? Ghandi Inovations have downscaled to 5 meters this year after moving from their old Dixie Rd location to their new plant in Mississauga, Ontario. The large format printer manufacturer market is shrinking to a few select players.

I don't need to sweep around the web sites to get information. I get my information from Design / Production / Directing I've been there and done that as a grunt and as manager. You keep arguing semantics, as I said there are many ways to do the job. If you have only been in small sign shops thats all you know.

Depending on budget and media the job can be done like: Ultrasonic welding of tiles, Gatorboard, Sintra even pre-formed concrete.

[D-Frag]

yeah but.....

my prismacolor marker is bigger then yours ;)

[MikeHun]

:cool: 24, 36 or 48 pack?

[PrintDriver]

A print machine is just a tool to me. And I'm always looking for bigger tools. ;)
Who has an 8 meter jeti? I have work for them if they have the material. Seriously. You told me to look around so I did. Maybe tomorrow I will call Gandi and give them a laugh at my expense. If anyone other than 1 or 2 printers in the US are printing wider than 24 FEET, I'm interested. I have one vendor in the Netherlands who does but lead time is a bitch and it's an 'airbrush' machine. Low dpi.

I wrap insides of buildings, arenas and theatres.

And if you have been in the industry so long, why are you telling newbs to submit flattened photoshop files and laser prints? That is an industry joke. A lot of these kids don't know any better.

[Kool]

I'd really hate to have to open a 24 meter photoshop file LOL.

[PrintDriver]

My bad. meant feet.

[mnotz]

Well...even though I might be a large format "Newb", I work long enough in the industry to know better than designing / sending anything without checking with the printer or whatever entity is receiving my output for specs.

A flattened psd seemed kind of odd to me at first sight as well, but there might be applications where even that is appropriate. As for laser proofs...at least with the lasers I have in my network I have yet to get consistently calibrated color output to work - profiles, calibration attempts and all.

On a good note, I have pricing from two companies so far, both of them spec'd a vinyl coated wall covering that will be adhesive mounted much like wall paper I guess, and I have more RFQ's out...

Ummm...and quite honest, it sounds kind of nice being called a "Kid"...does not happen too often to me anymore these days...:P

Thanks again for all your help, guys...and be nice to each other ;-)


Marcus.

[MikeHun]

A print machine is just a tool to me. And I'm always looking for bigger tools. ;)
Who has an 8 meter jeti? I have work for them if they have the material. Seriously. You told me to look around so I did. Maybe tomorrow I will call Gandi and give them a laugh at my expense. If anyone other than 1 or 2 printers in the US are printing wider than 24 FEET, I'm interested. I have one vendor in the Netherlands who does but lead time is a bitch and it's an 'airbrush' machine. Low dpi.

I wrap insides of buildings, arenas and theatres.

And if you have been in the industry so long, why are you telling newbs to submit flattened photoshop files and laser prints? That is an industry joke. A lot of these kids don't know any better.

Flattened PSD or a press ready PDF file to Rip I'll take it compared to a wonky quark file 48" limit. You must like spending all night at the shop waiting for end of memory dialog box's. When that big of a file is required
I want the least amount of processor time required.

If you're worth your salt as a GD you send all supporting files and fonts.

Print driver; I still haven't got an answer from you on what RIP you use or what printers you've actually operated.

So far, It's getting to be p!ss!ng contest... I don't know you or have seen your work so it's all debate and hot air at this point. You're not the only gunslinger in this one horse town... One thing for sure whenever there's
a large format topic a debate ensues and we hijack it.. ha , ha ha ha.:cool:

[MikeHun]

http://gandinnovations.com/index.htm

Gandinnovations
Global Head Quarters
5975 Falbourne Street, Mississauga, ON, L5R3V8.
Tel: 1 866 500 Jeti
Tel: 905 361 6982
Fax: 905 502 9360