Spot color question

[follicle]

I have a very basic question about spot colors.

I've always known about spots colors and used them, but I guess I never really thought about it. Do I have this right?

Spot colors (such as Pantones) are not converted to CMYK, but are each printed separately. There are no Pantone inks. Spot color ink is created by mixing other special inks to achieve the required color.

Is this right? If so, why is spot color the cheaper choice when only printing only one, two, or three colors? I mean, wouldn't the printer have to mix inks for each spot color used? Isn’t that a complicated, trial-and-error process? How do printers know the "recipes" for which inks to mix?

Ahh, I'm so confused!

[budafist]

Pantone doesn't make inks but they do make the "recipe books". I don't have a recipe book here, but they say stuff like 1/8 part cyan, 2 parts black etc. and the printer mixes the colour from there.

It's not exactly a trial and error, but there are some colours that are hard to mix. Especially if there is a ridiculously small part of a certain colour.

You pay for the plate that is used so if you are only mixing 2 spot colours, you are paying for the 2 metal or poly plates that need to be created.

There are certain spot colours that are bought by the tin if they are used often.

[PrintDriver]

If you are doing regular printing spot colors are made by mixing ink as Buda says. But if you are doing wide format printing then the spot colors are matched differently. They are actually printed in CMYKcm inks (no plates), BUT they do not follow the spot>process conversion chart. I've done large format pieces with over 10 PMS colors on the same panel. It costs $ for the first set of color matches but if used over multiple one-offs, it can still be cost effective.

[SpugNothuson]

Each page of the Pantone book has 7 colours.

The middle colour is the master colour of that sheet and is mixed first. Then if you want one of the 3 colours above it you mix in some transparent white, the 3 below some black.

It's not as complicated as you'd think. There is some trial and error involved but a printer thats been doing the job for many years can mix them in no time at all. One of the rpinters at my old workplace had been mixing Pantones for over a decade. I rarely saw him having trouble with a mixture.

["Technical" Terry]

There are many standard Pantone inks that are bought including Reflex, 185, 032, 347, etc... Many times you get a lower rate by using a "house red" which might be 185, rather than using your specified 186. This is because 185 is what they buy, its already there waiting to be used, no mixing needed.
I send work to one house because I know they use 032, while another uses a mixture of 185 and 032.
Just another reason to develop relationships with your printers.

[bejamshi]

You guys are so knowledgeable :)

[longboy]

When I was in printing, we mixed our own Pantones as well. The Pantone books do have the recipe, and you basically mix in the colors similar to the way they make paint at your local hardware store. We had a scale that would tell you how many 'parts' of each color to get the desired Pantone color.

Our shop was small, but as long as you can read you can mix paint :)

[bejamshi]

longboy, how much do you know to make, not the measurement but the amount you need at the end.

[longboy]

It was a long time ago (about 14 years since I ran a press), but we usually mixed up a quart-sized container of it each time. This way, we'd use what we needed for a business card run or whatever, and kept the rest in storage for the next time we needed that particular Pantone color.

We had shelves upon shelves of Pantones, and always used what was stored before mixing new ink. The nice thing for me (I was an art student at the time), is that I was able to use any color of ink I needed for my printmaking class. Those inks were awesome for woodcuts :D

[BJMRGTIVR6]

I walked in on our printer (at my last job) while she was slapping ink on a scale. I decided to hang out and learn, it was interesting.

and nice to know. we had many cans of bought ink and then the cans that she used to mix the colors.

[graphk1]

the printer can either order the spot color pms inks or mix them on site. the minimum order is usually one pound.

spot colors will generally be cheaper if there are less than three of them...
for a few reasons.

generally speaking

if you have one spot color only...it goes on a one color press
if you have two spot colors ...it goes on a two color press
if you have three or more spot colors ...it goes on a four color press

the hourly rate for a one or two color press is substantially less than that of a four color press.

if you have a project that requires 4 color process (cymk) and need to add a spot color (in place of processing out the spot color) you will go from a four color press to a five color press.

the upside of using spot color is that is a closer match in many instances then the process build equivilent. the downside is the financial impact on the budget and that if you are trapping spot colors...you always have a trap line.

if you have a printer that has a five color press you may be able to negotiate the cost of using the (dead) unit to offset part of the additional cost

[budafist]

I walked in on our printer (at my last job) while she was slapping ink on a scale. I decided to hang out and learn, it was interesting.

and nice to know. we had many cans of bought ink and then the cans that she used to mix the colors.

Your printer was a woman? I've yet to meet a female printer. I don't think a female could work in our factory. Lewd men all of them! :D

[longboy]

The shop I worked at had a woman who ran our big press (1-color, 48" or so sheet). Also, the person who taught me how to run a press when I was 16 was a woman :)

[SpugNothuson]

I don't think a female could work in our factory. Lewd men all of them! :D

My first job when I was 16 was in a despatch depatment of a local rag. I was employed to carry bundles of papers from machine to tables. Once on the tables a team of 14 women would insert one paper inside another (We only had a 48pp max press and the newpaper regularly went over that, and there was no machine to do the collating back then).

Any way back on point, these 14 women were the scariest thing I've ever met. A young innocent 16 year old Spug was demeaned on a regular basis by them, my male colleagues that carried the bundles were no help either, we lived in fear of them.

I've never been subjected to such lewd conversations since then and before then. A woman is a timid creature. Women are shocking!

[budafist]

I've never been subjected to such lewd conversations since then and before then. A woman is a timid creature. Women are shocking!

You might be into something there Spuggie!

Our bindery are all women, but our printers are all men.

[longboy]

The same woman who taught me how to set up/run our press was also the lady who showed me how to use the power cutter. She was missing a little bit of one of her fingers :eek:

[bejamshi]

I wish I could get some print experience.

[graphicsmama]

Bejamshi, have you ever asked to go and shadow one of the techs? They may let you do that...I asked one of my printers and they had never had anyone ask that before but they were willing to do it. I went in for a tour and met the print manager and now I'm just trying to work out the logistics of the shadowing (b/c of my boys and the hours the shop runs), but they have been really great about it. It may be worth a try!

Anyhoo...not to drag this off-topic...good info in here though!

[bejamshi]

good idea, I would have to ask that.

[budafist]

If your printer is busy (as they can be) ask if you can come back when they are a bit quieter.

[garricks]

There's a presswoman at one of the quick print places I use on occasion. Sharp cookie, and funny as hell!

Bejamshi, I learned a lot about press work and bindery when i did press approvals. If the AE had time, he'd show me around and I asked questions. I met most of the plant workers and watched them work. Invaluable experiences!

If you have the time, you might even ask if you can do an internship at a printers for a month or so. That would fill your brain right up! :D

[bejamshi]

Nice thanks. :)

[The_Black_Knight]

I've never been subjected to such lewd conversations since then and before then. A woman is a timid creature. Women are shocking!This has been my experience, as well. Once the woman/man ratio reaches a certain point, the man might as well not be there... and then the real personalities of the women come out.

That's all I've got to say about that.

[garricks]

This has been my experience, as well. Once the woman/man ratio reaches a certain point, the man might as well not be there... and then the real personalities of the women come out.

That's all I've got to say about that.
Heh. Read the graffiti in the ladies' rest rooms! It's amazingly crude.

(No, you pervs, I was a janitor for a summer.)

[urstwile]

Mmmhmmm. :rolleyes:

[budafist]

You just reminded me of this:

http://whatisee.org/mt/archives/images/weakassbitch.jpg

It says "Bitch" and then "Watch your kerning". Apparently found in the mens bathroom at Parsons School of Design.

[The_Black_Knight]

You just reminded me of this:



It says "Bitch" and then "Watch your kerning". Apparently found in the mens bathroom at Parsons School of Design.For me it just says "Please link directly to my blog"

At least they were nice about it. I really recommend against hotlinking to someone else's site, because some people aren't as nice about it as this person was.