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Click to See Complete Forum and Search --> : Spec work in the wild, an example


SurfPark
03-28-2008, 01:05 AM
I know we've discussed spec work and its evils ad nauseum on this forum, but there is rarely a chance to see the whole process in the wild. I found this gem at GFXcontests.com (sounds like a winner, huh?).

http://gfxcontests.com/showthread.html?t=339

In the thread, the client is asking for a logo for their cupcake web site. The thread is dated from 2006, but the process it evokes is pretty much what we are still contesting to this date...spec work.

I thought I'd cite this example, because we often debate the fine line between a graphic design contest and spec work. I think most agreed that a true "contest" is held for work that's already completed. Any contest that requires you to create totally new work is considered spec work.

Some key elements to notice in this example:

Crazy deadline: It was posted on May 3rd and asked to be finished by May 15th (at 11:59 PM, strict! *whip crack*). 12 days from start to finish...10 without weekend.
Flat fee dangled like a carrot. $200 flat.
Unlimited revisions. The client requests multiple revisions from people she's not obligated to pay. There were over 13 thread pages!
Full disclosure. Although this "contest" has ended about two years ago, the archive remains for everyone to see. This company has the world knowing what they paid for their brand, how they decided it, and who made it.
Bad decisions. Since this post is over two years old, you can see how the client's company stands today. Their link is in the first post. Their current logo is not the best of the submitted entries, nor does it really serve the purpose of the business. The client went on instincts based solely on colors and ignored other marketing aspects of the brand.So what can we learn from this example? First, we have to realize that this is spec work. We've had the "them and us" arguments that basically states that only amateurs participate in this work while professionals avoid them. I think its fair to say that with schools churning out so many graphic designers per year, there are more amateurs in the marketplace than ever. Many people are not a teenagers with a hacked version of Photoshop, but actually struggling designers trying to make ends meet. Education shouldn't be the only dividing line between an amateur and a professional...ethics should equally considered.

A designer that doesn't know their hurting their profession by participating in spec work typically is too fixated on money and fails to realize the clients they obtain through spec work will continue to expect deeply discounted rates for the life of the client/designer relationship. These are clients no one wants to have. These are clients that are not willing to spend money to create their own brand...which should foreshadow their business' success. There is an economy of sale that many small business owners tend to deny. Not all Fortune 500 companies started with Fortune 500-priced logos.

I also wanted to use this chance to mention that any site that mentions the terms "design" and "contest" in the same breath is on shaky grounds. Design is about solving a problem. To start working on solving a problem for which you may never be conpensated for is a risk. You may put a lot of work into something and have no return. If you honestly don't care about return, then I'd suggest you search for a local non-profit organization. At least those people will not be lining their pockets with the problem solving, design work, or effort you're putting forward.

garricks
03-28-2008, 01:10 AM
First warning sign is the second sentence: Please forgive me, I stole contest format from someone else..since I'm not technical at all..and frankly, not very detail-oriented.

ZippyTheWonderMonkey
03-28-2008, 02:00 AM
the owner of that sight should be taken out back and beaten with a rubber fish. That's as bad as the designer that designed the nike logo and only got $500 for it.

SurfPark
03-28-2008, 02:07 AM
the owner of that sight should be taken out back and beaten with a rubber fish. That's as bad as the designer that designed the nike logo and only got $500 for it.
That's what I was speaking out when I mentioned economy of scale. When the Nike logo designer, Carolyn Davidson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolyn_Davidson), made the logo, Nike was a start-up shoe company. She actually only got $35 for the original design. In a situation like that its completely fair. She did work on comission, but it was Nike that put more money behind its product and the logo that made the logo's value grow. Legally, Nike paid for their job. I don't think either party knew what would come of the company. The Wikipedia article I linked to also suggests that she was paid quite nicely in Nike stock shares several years later.

I suppose you can use her example as a means to always put a usage clause in all contracts. Perhaps only design logos for a specific application. If Ms. Davidson had done so, Nike would have been prohibited from using the logo on products, packaging, commercials, web design, and other uses so easily.

Red Kittie Kat
03-28-2008, 02:32 AM
Wow I couldn't even read the whole thing. I wanted to hurt her. But I gotta say .. what ding-a-ling who isn't being paid keeps making revision after revision.

This was just with one particular artist and only a few of the revisions I saw asked for :rolleyes:

... its ok but make it higher.
... no make it Higher ... I want the frosting higher and pouring over the sides.
... make it blue
... no not that blue
... hmm I'm im not sure I like that blue either

She should choke on her cupcakes :D

I didn't even look at the content of the rest of that site.

budafist
03-28-2008, 02:42 AM
Spec work to me is pitching an idea. Making revisions for no compesation is not acceptable.

vtwin_gary
03-28-2008, 03:25 AM
Delicious Treats are only a month away!
(WILL OPEN FOR BUSINESS NOVEMBER 06)

i wonder if the "contest winner" was paid. it doesn't look like the company ever made it off the ground.

vtwin_gary
03-28-2008, 03:33 AM
i think we should all sign up to be members then submit total garbage & inspire people to hire a real designer.

ZippyTheWonderMonkey
03-28-2008, 07:13 AM
I'm kinda with you on this but I see a problem.

we must think in terms of the long run. If we submit total garbage eventually one of our design will get picked, then another, then another and in 10, 20, 30 years everyone will have complete garbage for logos and it will considered modern and chic.

aww who cares, let's do the logos in MSPaint!

ZippyTheWonderMonkey
03-28-2008, 07:22 AM
AAAAAHHHHH!!!!!! MY EYES!!

this place is where web2.0 went to die.

http://gfxcontests.com/showthread.html?t=1073

p.s. how many more logos can we cram arial rounded into, with reflections no less?

John G
03-28-2008, 07:25 AM
i don't know whether to laugh or cry

m00nwater
03-28-2008, 12:21 PM
I think it's terrible that there's a forum made specifically to undermine our profession...and that the people running it make money from having the companies looking for GD prostitutes pay for a subscription.

garricks
03-28-2008, 01:07 PM
AAAAAHHHHH!!!!!! MY EYES!!

this place is where web2.0 went to die.

http://gfxcontests.com/showthread.html?t=1073

p.s. how many more logos can we cram arial rounded into, with reflections no less?

ROLFMAO. To be fair, the person did request that the logo be "Super Web 2.0".

But three points to anyone who can tell me the problem with this sentence: "Deliverables should be in AI and PSD format, along with any fonts I may need."

I'll give you a hint: http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a249/garricks/GDF/pirate-with-parrot-emoticon.gif

Tea
03-28-2008, 01:27 PM
Yep....for $30 you can host as many contests as you want for six months. So cupcake girl had to spend a little extra money for logo. But shoot...that's the business I should be in. Hosting a site for others to host contests.

Did you notice Cupcake Girl has a special on her Halloween Cupcakes...15% off if you order before October 1st! Sweet. :eek: (I'm thinking that's a bit early, but hey...they should keep right?)

PrintDriver
03-28-2008, 01:56 PM
I think you should rethink your statement about putting usage rights on a logo. In 99% of cases, the company commissioning the logo wants all usage rights. What good is a logo if you can't put it on your packaging?
:rolleyes:

Every once in a while the NoSpec pot gets stirred. People get all riled up. Then it goes away for a few months. Sure, every design student should be taught not to give away what they do for a profession (unless it is pro-bono for some cause or other.) But to worry about the people who enter these contests for whatever reason? Waste of energy. They will never go away.
Go out and sell something instead. :D

And Cupcake girl was taking orders early. Perfectly legitimate. In a bakery business it helps to know ahead of time what your work load might be on top of those last-minute people and what you need to order ahead of time for supplies to make those orders.

Yossarian
03-28-2008, 06:42 PM
i think we should all sign up to be members then submit total garbage & inspire people to hire a real designer.

That's a good idea, but first I'm going to buy some font creation software and develop a new can't-miss typeface to use in these contests. It will appeal to EVERYONE and be appropriate for EVERYTHING. And I shall call it . . . . . Comic Papyrus™.

m00nwater
03-28-2008, 07:02 PM
That's a good idea, but first I'm going to buy some font creation software and develop a new can't-miss typeface to use in these contests. It will appeal to EVERYONE and be appropriate for EVERYTHING. And I shall call it . . . . . Comic Papyrus™.

Can you make me one called Arial Sand?