Color Gone Wild:

[kellyc1212]

I was just finishing up some business cards that have to go out to the printer tomorrow and have had the strangest problem occur. I'm not quite sure what's going on. It's in CMYK, 300 pixels/inch. The colors are in the printing gamut, according to Photoshop, and everything looks fine in jpeg. But as soon as I convert it to TIFF, it's a nightmare. The broker looks like she's risen from the dead (her lips are blue) and the logo is unbelievably bright. Any help would be greatly appreciated! I'm attaching it in jpeg. :)

Kelly

[kellyc1212]

Sorry. Forgot to attach. Please overlook the distortion. I just did a sloppy resize just to throw it up here quickly and didn't constrain.

Thanks!

[kellyc1212]

Never mind. My attachment didn't show up and I'm tired. :) Will try again tomorrow. But if anyone has any advice or suggestions on what may have went wrong, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks again.

Kelly

[AbiJ]

are you saving the colour profile? also in what program are you viewing the tiff?

[PrintDriver]

Try not embedding the profile.
I'll let it go that it sounds like you are designing in jpg then converting to tif. Bad form.

[HappyFriday]

Sound like a case of wrong workflow. If you have something that is meant to be hi-res and be printed, NEVER work with files in JPEG.

It's often easy to forget to check because JPEG is often the default file format you'll received from stock photos and from digital cameras. In your case, you reached a final design but only see how color shifted from a mere change in file format. Were you working in sRGB or Adobe 1998 RGB? Adobe 1998 RGb has a wider color space. You'll noticed a big color shift when you convert to CMYK in either mode.

Recently I had a job that was designed in sRGB and everyone signed off on it. Needless to say, when converted to CMYK, they wil get a duller color space.

I don't mean to sound too critical, but our design schools really need to teach this kind of stuff. This type of mistake is totally avoidable.

[MikeTheVike]

i think he means when he saves it as a jpeg it looks fine, but as a tiff, the colors are messed up...

[HappyFriday]

It's in CMYK, 300 pixels/inch. The colors are in the printing gamut, according to Photoshop, and everything looks fine in jpeg

Souns to me he/she is working with JPG....

[kellyc1212]

I'm sorry. Yes. I started working in jpeg. I should have been more specific. And I've never been to college for graphic design. I'm self-taught, and still learning. Can't you tell? :o I'm actually a professional photographer and nationally published novelist, but I'm doing this work for a local lady who saw my website, (www.kellyclarkbaugher.com (http://www.kellyclarkbaugher.com)) which I designed using html and CSS, but needless to say, I'm still learning about graphic design for printing purposes.

For some reason, my attachment won't show, so I'll try to be as specific as possible. I started work on the business card in jpeg format like a dummy, and designed the logo around the broker's picture. The card looks fantastic according to her. She loves it, and doesn't want a thing changed, but when I got ready to convert over to tif for the printer in cmyk, the blue hues turned this crazy neon blue color. And I've just checked, and the business card was already in cmyk in jpeg before the conversion to tif. So I can't for the life of me figure out what's going on.

Thanks for your patience. Hopefully some of you design college grads and students can help. I'm just a girl with a theatre degree finding my way. :p

[MikeTheVike]

I'm sorry. Yes. I started working in jpeg. I should have been more specific. And I've never been to college for graphic design. I'm self-taught, and still learning. Can't you tell? :o I'm actually a professional photographer and nationally published novelist, but I'm doing this work for a local lady who saw my website, (www.kellyclarkbaugher.com (http://www.kellyclarkbaugher.com)) which I designed using html and CSS, but needless to say, I'm still learning about graphic design for printing purposes.

For some reason, my attachment won't show, so I'll try to be as specific as possible. I started work on the business card in jpeg format like a dummy, and designed the logo around the broker's picture. The card looks fantastic according to her. She loves it, and doesn't want a thing changed, but when I got ready to convert over to tif for the printer in cmyk, the blue hues turned this crazy neon blue color. And I've just checked, and the business card was already in cmyk in jpeg before the conversion to tif. So I can't for the life of me figure out what's going on.

Thanks for your patience. Hopefully some of you design college grads and students can help. I'm just a girl with a theatre degree finding my way. :p

for some reason your site crashes my browser every time...I'm using Camino...

[kellyc1212]

Yes, Mike. You've hit the proverbial nail on the head. Jpeg looks good. Tiff looks bad. :confused:

[kellyc1212]

Sorry, Mike. I'm working on it right now, uploading new images. That's probably what's going on.

[kellyc1212]

Also,

I should have clarified that the TIF looks fine while working in photoshop. It's just when I'm attaching the tif in email or upload to the printer that I notice the crazy color. I thought the color just may not have been web safe, but this is not the issue because it does the same thing when opening it up in my computer through my documents.

[Typically]

you did all the text in photoshop too????

[kellyc1212]

Yes I did. Am I going to get a beating? Ha! But the text is fine. It's just the logo color and the broker image color that's shifting.

[kellyc1212]

I'm guessing you guys don't do text in photoshop then? Then why would there even be a text option? Totally confused now. I swear I have a friend who graduated from Ole Miss in graphic design, and she uses text in Photoshop all the time. Or am I crazy?

[kellyc1212]

Yes!! Thanks everyone for your replies. After much tinkering, I figured it out. The embedded color profile was something funky. I changed it and it looks perfect.

Thanks again!

[AbiJ]

happened to me too before - designed in photoshop cmyk as normal, noever had a problem before but noticed the preview of the file outside photoshop was wrong. I think the colour profile of the document didn't match the colour profile photoshop set as default for the tiff.

[Typically]

text in photoshop is fine for this
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/funny-pictures-boss-cat-office-cubicle.jpg

but you shouldn't do text that is going to be printed in photoshop. do your graphics in photoshop if you need to but bring them into Indesign or Illy to do the text. you will see a huge difference in the crispness and readability in smaller text when it's vector.

[kellyc1212]

Oh. Now I'm understanding. Cute cat. :) Maybe eventually I will clunk down the change for some of those software programs, but right now I've kind of fell into this design stuff by chance. This client just called me up out of the blue several weeks ago wanting tons of design work done...posters, labels, web design, cards and brochures. I could not resist the business offer. I let her know right off this was new territory for me, but she said she didn't care because she'd seen my photography and web design and loved it. But right now since my main business is photography, I should prbably just stick to photoshop. ;)

Thanks!

Kelly

[Typically]

Not to be a dick here but you should really reconsider doing brochures and other work in photoshop. i understand that you aren't a graphic designer and you don't have the software but if you don't have the tools for the job you shouldn't take the job. you wouldn't take a fun-saver for wedding photography would you?

[kellyc1212]

I don't understand why you're being so offensive. I mean honestly, I was not being rude at all. I was trying to search for help on this topic, and does it look like I'm doing this as fun? Believe me, I would not be lurking around forums asking questions about color embedding for fun. I took the job because she searched me out. I was not advertising to be a designer. She had paid thousands of dollars to a design firm in town previously and was not pleased with their work. She said it was not a pleasant experience.

And the brochures are already completed and have been printed. She loved them, and in fact, other brokers who saw the brochures wanted to know who did them and she passed my name to them, and I've had 2 emails over the weekend requesting design services. But I declined because I am covered up with photo sessions.

Sometimes I think it's easier to pass along jealousy and insecurities via the internet where people can't be seen. Not to be a dick either, though. :)

[kellyc1212]

I just wished that instead of trying to break people down and being skeptical of everything the person is trying to do, more people would want to help just because it is the right thing to do. I had many supportive comments on this topic (thank you all!) and they were truly trying to help me with my issue. And then there were others (who shall rename nameless) who istead of trying to address my problem, tried to pry into the specifics of completely unrelated issues. Text had nothing to do with my color profile issue question.

I think some people just take this opportunity to stroke their own egos by degrading others' efforts because they don't have all the fancy-dancy software that they have, or are a few steps behind them in learning a skill. I may still be learning about design, but I went to college all 4 years on a full scholarship, and had my first novel published nationally at the age of 23, so I'm by no means ignorant.

I'm sorry. But this just burns me. Maybe it's because I'm a woman that makes it even easier for you to ridicule or judge. By the way, I'd rethink using the word "dick" in the presence of women, or in the presence of anyone for that matter. You may make more friends in the long run. :)

[Typically]

do as you will i'm just saying you are going to run into problems doing it the way you are. i'm not jealous about you getting some work, more power to you. i just think if you are doing it something you should do it right especially if you are charging someone for your services.

[kellyc1212]

Okay. Well, that sounds a little better. I just didn't like the fun-saver analogy. I mean, I don't think Photoshop and Illustrator are a correct analogy when comparing a FunSaver camera to an SLR like a Canon EOS 5D or something. I mean, it takes no skill to use a fun saver camera, whereas, it takes a lot of skill to use Photoshop. I mean, a person that has never used photoshop couldn't walk right up to a computer and just start pounding away, could they? Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Typically]

first off it doesn't matter if you're a women, a man, or a cat i could give to shakes about that. kelly can be a man or women's name btw.

i wasn't degrading you're skills. you didn't even post what you were working on. go ahead and do everything in photoshop. make logos, do a multipage catalog in it, shit why not just use it as a word processor for all i care.

[Virgo Nightingale]

Kelly, really no reason to get overly defensive. No one was coming down on you because of your sex or your efforts, simply pointing out that Photoshop is not the best tool for what you're trying to do. If your print design work really is that good and is generating more business for you, that's great! Just consider investing in the proper software. That's all.

[kellyc1212]

Coming off of soap box now and finishing my work. :) Sorry. I really didn't mean to get upset. I just needed help quickly, and felt like instead I was being judged for my lack of knowledge. I have attached the logo several times, and it would process, and then it would go blank.

The problem is fixed now. Thanks to the first few posters, I was able to figure it out.

[kellyc1212]

Thanks, Virgo. I really don't easily get upset. Believe it or not. :D

I have just been swamped with tons of deadlines, and had to get this out today, along with a 350 page revised manuscript to my agent. And felt like someone telling me I shouldn't have taken the design job because I use photoshop was just trying to knock the wind out of me, instead of trying to better my efforts. I will look into more software. It looks like most of my work is going to be web-based for a while. And I use CSS and html for all of that. So I won't be needing any time soon. But I will eventually buy when I have time. (Which is very little right now.) Ha!

[Typically]

sorry to get on the wrong foot i really wasn't trying to be a... :D

as for the fun-saver comment i was just saying you would use the correct tool for the job wouldn't you? no way trying knocking your profession i know it's hard stuff i've been messing around with my camera for years =]

[urstwile]

FYI, the logo and card didn't preview because the attachment was still in CMYK, which most browsers won't view, with the exception of Safari (which is why I could see it just fine, since that's what I use).

[kellyc1212]

No. I'm sorry. Really I am. I shouldn't have gotten so touchy. I think my stress-levels are just through the roof right now. Thanks. I know you were just trying to help. :D

[kellyc1212]

Aha! Thanks so much for that. Now it totally makes sense. :)

[HappyFriday]

I just want to add, you can use type in Photoshop just not at 300ppi. The typical 300ppi resolution for print doesn't work well here. If you want crisp-clean type in Photoshop, you'll have to work with 800~1200ppi from start. Although the big working file size will likely slow down your work and progress.

That said, there are exceptions to the rule. You just need to know when to break it.

[PrintDriver]

If you want crisp clean printed type when using photoshop don't flatten the file and send the font with the file, and ask the printer to output with vectors intact. They might do it.

[Cooper]

Eh. You guys are way out of line here. Creating text for print in Photoshop isn't ideal but it's no where near the disaster your making it out to be. If your printer can't get sharp text out of 300 dpi bitmap files, you might want to consider sourcing a new supplier. Or stop saving your files with a low-quality lossy compression algorithm.

[Virgo Nightingale]

To each his own, yes, but I'd rather use the proper software and get the best result than have to shop around for a different printer who can 'polish the turd' for me, so to speak. :)

[Cooper]

ooh. ice brun.

Seriously, way to big of a deal being made here. I mean, it's not like anyone is suggesting type-setting a 500 page novel in photoshop. Not after the last time... :P