2 Page mag spread.

[Oldat29]

This is a college project and this is what i think is my best so far. I need to push it further and need some one eles eyes to look at it.

Its a 2 page mag spread on JOHN ALVIN. (http://www.johnalvinart.com/Default.aspx) What do you think?
LEFT PAGE


http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a95/lordsamson/John-alvin_Left-page.png


RIGHT PAGE

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a95/lordsamson/John-alvin_right-pace.png

[PrintDriver]

Moved to Showcase for requested critique.
For starters, check your letter spacing in John Alvin. Your font choice suggests
JOHNAL VIN

[Jonski3000]

OK, constructive criticism.

It's too "busy" and too dark.

Not too sure that serif typeface is working 'white out'.

And the typography is all over the place.

Firstly, did you do the masthead? If so, I'd have a another look at the kerning - I'm not too sure who "Johnal Vin" is?

The columns of text are too tight - increase the gutter width. And make sure they are all the same width, they're not at the moment. Also bring everything in from the edge of the page, it's too close.

Also, what's with the HUGE indents? They're not even consistent. Do you need them at all, you have paragraph spacing in there too? I'd lose them altogether, certainly not have them that big.

Why hyphenation? Copy is ranged left - you don't need it. Actually I'd justify the copy anyway AND lose the hyphenation.

The captions on page one (but strangely not on page two?) look randomly placed. Run them as a bold single line underneath the images.

The mix of colours of the type in the interview section on page 2 is bad - keep it all white or box it out in some way.

Apart from that...

[dot]

agree with previous posters about too busy, spacing in johnalvin, weirdly big indents (i actually like that kind of thing if they're well done but here they just seem incoherent - part of the "too much going on" problem), too many colors in the type, and so on.


adding to that, i think the poster art that you're using is not great. it is both grainy (quality of image) and the images aren't that compelling - got that 70s feel.

the line spacing for at least the first line of text looks off and if the text is relevent at all, you should check it. there are multiple instances of repeated words (for the for the, etc).

[Tea]

I would recommend limiting your color palette related to your fonts. The picture I think the other posters have addressed the spacing and text issues.

[ZippyTheWonderMonkey]

gridding the text via justifying it would make it look TOO overdone, it's not ALWAYS good to do so.

I would really steer clear of red AND blue in the same article, try a red and 10% grey or a blue and 10% grey (10-20% grey lessens the "sparkle effect of reverse text. I'm sure you knew that, I'm just reiderating)

I disagree with Jonski simply about the "too dark", Star Wars was a relatively dark movie and the packaging was also dark, this is staying consitant with the theme of Star Wars

I happen to agree with the spacing issue on the name, also I would try that in white, It is hard to read over the E.T. image, I would also try splitting the name with said image in between instead of going over top of it

[Jonski3000]

I disagree with Jonski simply about the "too dark", Star Wars was a relatively dark movie and the packaging was also dark, this is staying consitant with the theme of Star Wars

True, Star Wars (and Blade Runner and Batman) have a dark feel. But the article isn't about Star Wars, is it? It's about John Alvin and he did more than just those. I'd hardly call Blazing Saddles a "dark" movie.

What works in film and packaging doesn't necessarily work in an easy to read magazine article. Keep the black background by all means, just "lighten" the whole thing up with space.

[ZippyTheWonderMonkey]

I'd hardly call Blazing Saddles a "dark" movie.
a "dark comedy" (umm, no film reference intended but it is funny and ironic) does not have to have dark lighting.

I stick with my initial critique though. I am open for suggestions though, as always.

This seemed, to me, to try and maintain the star wars theme hence the example.

[budafist]

This spread is very busy.

Too much hyphenation. Either turn it off, or adjust to a higher letter number threshold. More space between columns.

Why have you indented the first line of some paragraphs but not others?

[Oldat29]

Moved to Showcase for requested critique.
For starters, check your letter spacing in John Alvin. Your font choice suggests
JOHNAL VIN

Thanx man, forgot what i was doung.

Thank you for posting, some great tips there and i think the 10% gray is a good idea. Im going to make the guttering a half size bigger and the edges bigger also. I need to bring the font size down and i only just learnt how to fix kerning in quark today..lol

[PrintDriver]

adding to that, i think the poster art that you're using is not great. it is both grainy (quality of image) and the images aren't that compelling - got that 70s feel.

This made me chuckle. Might be because they are 70s/early 80s movies?

[createdirector]

I think it looks good overall and agree with the previous posts, you definitely have something to work with, let us see the final draft too. :)

[dot]

This made me chuckle. Might be because they are 70s/early 80s movies?

sure, but your page spread isn't.

there are plenty of image options that won't date your pages, like stills from the movies for example, or photoshopping the posters in various ways to update them.

[Jonski3000]

let us see the final draft too.
I'd like to see the an amended version, too.

there are plenty of image options that won't date your pages, like stills from the movies for example, or photoshopping the posters in various ways to update them.
:confused:
But the article is about John Alvin and his work. What would be the point of showing a movie still? And you certainly don't want to be Photoshopping his stuff!!

[Oldat29]

I dont think i have the right to Photoshop anyones work, The images are 10 inch by 12 ince at 300 res, so i cant see why there look anything other the crystle clear. Maybe its just that i saved as a png ????

[PrintDriver]

there are plenty of image options that won't date your pages, like stills from the movies for example, or photoshopping the posters in various ways to update them.
OMG!
You don't Photoshop an artist's work to 'update' it. The article is about the artist who produced the art!!!
You certainly DO NOT EVER "update" artwork that is not yours, and certainly not the art of an artist whose talent has become iconic and part of film history.

:mad:

[frankster]

An artist that recently died too, so this is a homage to his work.

http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33914

I think I would be looking at showing larger images of his work. Do you have a word count that you have to stick to? Dropping the star wars first ten years wide image and putting his portrait up top left on the first page with his name alongside it. Out of all his work you want to keep the bladerunner, the star wars poster and add in the ET one too. I'd drop the blazing saddles because you really need it to be bigger to see it proparly and you're probably not going to have the space.

[Jonski3000]

An artist that recently died too, so this is a homage to his work.
Exactly. I was trying to be diplomatic because I'm new here. But to suggest 'shopping' his work is abhorrent.

One thing that I've been mulling over, though. Would it be best to use his head-shot at the start of that article or, as Oldat29 has done, at the end... kinda like a 'send off'?

[dot]

i wasn't paying attention to the content.
my mistake.

[Optimusdinkus]

go on, photoshop my work, I DARE you!

[PrintDriver]

Whether or not you were paying attention to the content or not, Dot, the idea of photoshopping someone else's art, no matter who they are is not ethical and in most cases a direct violation of copyright. Something you might want to keep in mind.

[Oldat29]

A few ideas i have so the left page isent so bizzy is to swap The picture of John alvin with the blazing saddles. The reason im useing the blazing saddles is because its his very firt published movie poster, and just for those that dont know, The cheif Indian in the picture is Mel brooks.

Also the E.T picture is his most awarded work, the movie is one of the most successful in cinema history. In addition to receiving the Hollywood Reporter Key Art Awards’ grand prize, Alvin's E.T. was the only movie art ever to be honoured with the Saturn Award from The Academy of Science Fiction, Horror and Fantasy Films.

I have a limet of 600 - 700 words. Il post the final draft.

[Oldat29]

OK i done some changes. I feel like im missing somthing.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a95/lordsamson/Laft-page-1.png

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a95/lordsamson/Right-page-1.png

[Oldat29]

The text dident look this dark till i posted it. Might need to brighten that a bit.

[tZ]

If you must juxtapose the type on a covered background you should resort from using serif faces. The serifs will most likely be lost . This will cause the type readability and legibility to decrease. Thus, find a sans for the body copy.

The fair use agreement allows the ability to manipulate and use other work once for academic and non-profit purposes.

[Jonski3000]

Looking better.

Typography is still not quite there, though. It looks justified in the first two columns and then ranged left in the others.

And you've still got hyphenation turned on and some bad widows in there. And proper name breaks, too. They never look good.

If you need to turn hyphenation off in Quark it's - Edit (menu)>H&Js>Standard>Edit (button) and the un-check the Auto-Hyphenation check box.

Hyphenation is not necessarily a bad thing, but needs to be used in moderation.

If you need to force a word down to the next line to balance stuff out use a soft return (Shift+Return).

Check the column widths. The still look off.

Still a bit close to the edge on page one and try to line the bottom of the text up with the bottom of the pics.

You mention it didn't look that dark until you put it up here. Well the same thing would happen if it ever went to print. That serif typeface will not hold out. See how the san-serif is working better "white out".

A lot more needs doing to page two but all in all a vast improvement, though. It's nearly there!

[Yossarian]

The first page is much improved, but like mentioned before, be consistent in your justification. You might also consider opening up the gutters a bit more.

On the second page, the Star Wars, first 10 years banner is breaking up the page quite a bit. You've already got Star Wars on there, maybe that banner could be omitted and free up some extra breathing room.

I'm not really digging the right-justified "Interviews with John" header. Given the rest of the formatting and the way it sits in that space, it kind of looks like a mistake. I'm not exactly hating the Helvetica there, but you might experiment with something different.

Maybe a silly question, but do you have these set up as a side-by-side spread in your file? It's always helpful in considering the relationships and flow from page to page. Your content starts higher on the right page than the left. Not that it's always a bad design choice, but in this case it's probably closer than you want to be to the top edge in a magazine.

One more quick nitpick, do a find and replace on quote marks and apostrophes to make sure you're using the curved style throughout.

This is really coming along. Overall I like the development from the first to second draft.

*edit* Something else occurred to me as I looked at your treatment of the John Alvin title. Maybe the "something missing" is carrying some of that into the rest of the layout. Maybe not in text treatment, but using those white linear elements to enhance edges or corners of photos or add interest elsewhere. It could just end up looking busy or weird, but it's something to consider.

[Jonski3000]

One more quick nitpick, do a find and replace on quote marks and apostrophes to make sure you're using the curved style throughout.

That's a good point. Old, go into QuarkXpress preferences and in the "Input Settings" dialogue make sure the "Use Smart Quotes" box is ticked. And then the program will do it for you.

[Yossarian]

That's a good point. Old, go into QuarkXpress preferences and in the "Input Settings" dialogue make sure the "Use Smart Quotes" box is ticked. And then the program will do it for you.

Even better!

[SurfPark]

I'd ditch one of the Star Wars images on the second page (I vote for the "ten years" banner). I'd also make it a 3 colum grid, just to be consistent.

One method you might do is to mirror your first page.

[simplicity]

The second version is improved. There are some problems with the justificiation as well as your margins. Be consistent with those. It also looks like you are trying to fill up all the space and your design looks extremely crammed. Don't be afraid of using the space to your advantage.

[Oldat29]

Well i showed the the lecturer and she says its more or less finished. I fixed all the gutters to the same size. I suggested about removing the starwars banner and she said leave it, that it gives the readers a break from reading.

I know theres still some flaws in it but i cant see them, iv look at this to much. If you see anything can you point it out.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a95/lordsamson/Finished-mag-left.png

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a95/lordsamson/Finished-mag-right.png

Thank you for all the comments and help. Its been great.

[Jonski3000]

Well i showed the the lecturer and she says its more or less finished.

Does she now? Hmmm, and we sometimes forget why some people "teach" when others "do".

To be fair it probably is nearly there but for a lecturer she's missed some glaring errors.

So...

The three paras on page 1. You should do a bit of manual cheating so all the columns line up on the x-height of the first line.

The initial cap "A" is also not in the same typeface now.

Page 1, first column, second para - indent???

Page 1, second column - where it say "established with the creation of... the movie posters" at the bottom - move that back so it reads on the same line.

Page 2, first para - Type size? Double check that it's the same - hard to see on screen. Also get rid of that widow.

Apart from that it's a vast improvement. I still have issues with the lining up of columns, text and pics, also the breaking of proper names with hyphenation. I'd maybe move the captions to the left of the shots, too. Not have them centered.
But for a student project... yeah, looking good.

[Jonski3000]

P.S. I forgot too add that the column widths are still not the same size. Now I could probably live with the single column on page 2 being wider but the columns on page 1 need to be the same width.

You'd be better off not using three separate text boxes and using a single one with 3 columns.

[PSPDan]

I think on the first page there are only two paras in the first column. The first one is broken up by the image. So in relation to your comments, the second paragraph is indented. And maybe you should take a closer look before criticising.

[Jonski3000]

I think on the first page there are only two paras in the first column. The first one is broken up by the image. So in relation to your comments, the second paragraph is indented.
What are you talking about? Of course there's only two paras in the first column. My comment was why is the second one still indented when Old has taken the rest out.

Have you read the rest of this thread? Obviously not with this comment.

And maybe you should take a closer look before criticising.
Maybe you should learn to read before making dumb comments. As far as I can tell Old has taken on board every piece of constructive criticism that has been put forward!

[PSPDan]

In that case here's a bit of grammar for you.

In most cases the phrase "indent???" automatically makes one assume you are saying "why isn't there an indent?" or "what about the indent?" not "Why is there still an indent" :S

[Jonski3000]

Very good. Back peddling to save face.

Like I said, if you'd bothered to read the rest of the thread it would be obvious!

[PSPDan]

Very good. Back peddling to save face.

Like I said, if you'd bothered to read the rest of the thread it would be obvious!

Ok, ok. I was wrong I admit. I've had a bad day and I'm tired. When I read your post it seemed like you were making an obvious mistake even though you weren't.

So to avoid this thread getting any more off-topic I'm holding my hands up and apologising.

Sorry.

[Jonski3000]

Apology accepted. We all have bad days.