A Concept for the Add-who`s work is it?

[Irine]

Is it the copywirtet`s work or the art director should think of it?
:confused:

Heck, i must say that these crazy attempts to be "original, cool and provocative" like our teacher for advertising and production always says...

It doesn`t interest me. I just doesn`t and it takes me time to think of something really good
All we try to do is "deliver the concept"and i am really sick of going crazy chasing after great and original and surealistic concepts all the time :mad: i feel it blocks out my creativity.

When I came to colllege at first i never thought i would have to do this crap.
I thought I would have just to make things look good.

*** notice: I am not a superficial person...I had good marks at school and i have always had interest in books, philosophy, spirituality, psychology,,,creative witing, music and other stuff like that. But i guess it doesn`t have to do a lot with it. I have or used to have a wild imagination...but i donno.:( Doens`t seem to work. The instructor doesn`t like my concepts and it takes a few weeks to have one, But of course it`s the case with many almost all the student in class at least 50% of us get no no nos before he ever likes one


I just wanted to know how much of this ability you need as a graphic designer.

[mojoprime]

you need as much as you can get. if you've got catchy ideas or strong visual and syntax skills, then you're going to be a better job candidate than the next guy, who may not have those skills. employers are looking for more diverse people these days.

will you be writing copy and stories? probably not. should you know how to write a headline, caption and a photo credit? yup. i think so. i wouldn't hire you if you didn't know how to do that.

[Irine]

caption and photo credit?

[mojoprime]

cutline? the type under a photo describing what's happening, and naming the people in the photo? like in magazine or a newspaper. photo credit is the name or studio of the image's creator.

[DesignStudio]

In an ideal world each project might have a marketing specialist, copywriter, graphic designer, and pre-press expert. But in my experience (both in talking to collegues who work in house, and myself as a freelancer) limited budget often neccesitates that you wear two or more of these hats at any given time. Writing and editing copy or brainstorming the main direction of a marketing campaign are all skills that definetly don't hurt to have in the industry and it is entirely possible that you'll be asked to contribute in these areas in addition to simply providing the layout. I think this is especially true if you're thinking of running your own business, I can hardly remember the last time a client approached me to create a design and already had a polished concept and copy ready to go.

[Yossarian]

Could be that your instructor is just giving you a taste of the real world. Good ideas (in every aspect of the creative process) take time and it's usually never a good practice to run with the first thing that comes to mind.

Different design positions will call for varying amounts of free reign. If that kind of concept development is not your forté there are still jobs for you in the industry. However, like already stated, any additional abilities you can offer an employer will make you more desirable.

Even if you do have a full creative staff on board, you'll still have to use your own judgement when it comes to things that may not be specifically spelled out in your job description. It may be as simple as deciding to add visual interest to a layout by choosing an appropriate section of text to set up as a callout. Or maybe as you're laying something out, you have a brilliant idea that may not be outlined in the creative brief but you suggest it anyway, they LOVE it, and throw you a party with cake and confetti and a big fat paycheck. Hey it could happen.:D

There are projects that are maddening when left too wide open, but it can be much worse when someone comes in knowing exactly what they want but haven't given any thought to what they actually need.

[createdirector]

I would agree that you should be prepared to concept, but if you don't like doing it on your own and it sounds as though you don't you can always go more towards trying to be a in house designer. Depending on the size of the company you should have the chance to concept with the project requestor or other creative staff members. Again that depends on the size of the company you work for, but I would definitely be prepared to do it regardless, but it may not all fall on you.

Good luck!

[Jackimalyn]

In an ideal world each project might have a marketing specialist, copywriter, graphic designer, and pre-press expert. But in my experience (both in talking to collegues who work in house, and myself as a freelancer) limited budget often neccesitates that you wear two or more of these hats at any given time.

I wear them all. When working in-house which most entry level designers do, you need to be able to do it all.

[budafist]

In a large company you might only be the person that "makes things look pretty". That's if you have a copywriter, an art directer, a marketing person, a photographer and whoever else a company might employ. But many of us work in small companies where we have to wear all those hats. You should expand your skills as much as you can especially while still studying.

You might never have to do those other parts of the job, but you need to know how they are done so that you understand other people's jobs and just in case you don't get a whole team of people to work with.

Your schooling years are not just about learning (software) skills, but learning how to think and generate ideas.

Edit: I obviously didn't read the other answers before replying...but I guess it just goes makes the point a little stronger.

[mojoprime]

^^^well said.

[garricks]

I would agree that you should be prepared to concept, but if you don't like doing it on your own and it sounds as though you don't you can always go more towards trying to be a in house designer. Depending on the size of the company you should have the chance to concept with the project requestor or other creative staff members. Again that depends on the size of the company you work for, but I would definitely be prepared to do it regardless, but it may not all fall on you.

Good luck!As an inhouse, I can tell you that it depends on the client. One client we work with always wants to be the art director and sends sketches. Another barely even sends deadlines, much less copy.

I have people I can rely on to help if I get stuck, but generally I run with it alone at first. It makes me appear more valuable to the company!

[budafist]

Also, don't forget the clients that want to be art director but really, really shouldn't. Unless you can generate and show those clients better ideas, you will be stuck with following their art direction.

[Irine]

Also, don't forget the clients that want to be art director but really, really shouldn't. Unless you can generate and show those clients better ideas, you will be stuck with following their art direction.

yes that may suck

Thank you all for the useful info :)

I don`t know if i "don`t have it" because there is sort of a forumula and even most stupid guys get this concept crap.

But like you said, it`s not the first ones. This sunday even our best student at this concept thing who has a sense of humor and generaly gets most ideas got rejected. He had 4 ideas and the instructor didn`t like any

It`s like "talking about it without showing it" now a campain for underwear.

I guess i will keep working on it then
I did a few good things thought
When at the begining of the year i asked him if he thought i was at the same level with the rest of the class he said i was.

But every time he rejects an idea i feel kinda ashamed of myself. I know i maybe shouldn`t be. I am by far not the only one who has bad ideas. And i don`t always get TIME to think of it. Do you guy think of your projects ALL the time?

Do you have any tips for brain storming?
I am good when i have another person with me... but generely i am alone

[budafist]

Don't sweat it. You learn more from the tutors that are the hardest to please.

What is your brainstorming process like currently?

Try and keep a diary with you at all times. Keep your topics on the back of your mind. Allow yourself to be inspired by your surroundings. Jot down anything and everything that comes to you.

[Cyan_Ide]

Designers are idea generators. Especially in this day in age. With every kid having a copy of Photoshop, the thing that sets us apart is our ability to come up with knock-em-dead creative concepts that we can take to execution. That is what we are paid for, with the fact that we are also Adobe rock stars making up a smaller portion.

For me personally, the best part of design is witnessing the process of a concept synthesizing into a visual form. The euphoria of watching a project totally come together in concept, execution, copywriting, etc. is phenomenal. Additionally, maybe it is just me here, but I like having conceptual control because I am also able to weed out weak or cheesy concepts.

As far as your latest post:

First off, definitely take budas advice with keeping a diary. While you are still in school, you can definitely live and breathe your projects since you have complete control over them, which will never happen again.

Secondly, who says you have to be 'alone?' If you're not working freelance or in-house (although if you're doing those you still have things like this forum), you'll be working in an agency with other creatives. While you're in school, find some designer friends, maybe they're in the same class, maybe they aren't, and bounce ideas off of each other based on your concepts. Don't be afraid to venture forth into the realm of complete ridiculousness, let anything go. What you start to see happen is you begin to feed off of each other and build on the ideas of everyone else, and this lifts the conceptual might of your project then as well. This is what critiques are for, when they work as they are supposed to.

Research advertising, and guerilla advertising, as they often have to resort to really creative messages to get to their audience. Watching what they do is really inspiring when it comes to conceptual ideation.

Do not fret that your professor is weeding out your ideas. In fact, this is better, because by him or her doing that it forces you to re-evaluate your position on the concept. After a few times of the professor doing it, you begin to internalize this process, and very soon you find yourself concepting, coming back to it later, and doing the same thing the professor is doing.

Lastly, do not feel 'ashamed' that your professor is rejecting your concepts. Remember, for every logo, there were comps that didn't make the chopping block. For every evocative advertisement, there was a creative think tank throwing out ideas which never even made it to the client. Often your first idea will not be your strongest, and through continued ideation and research you eventually come upon the solution. That doesn't mean you are bad, that stuff is all just part of the process.

[Riefnu]

double post, remove this one, not the long one, please mods!

[Riefnu]

yes that may suck

Thank you all for the useful info :)

I don`t know if i "don`t have it" because there is sort of a forumula and even most stupid guys get this concept crap.

But like you said, it`s not the first ones. This sunday even our best student at this concept thing who has a sense of humor and generaly gets most ideas got rejected. He had 4 ideas and the instructor didn`t like any

It`s like "talking about it without showing it" now a campain for underwear.

I guess i will keep working on it then
I did a few good things thought
When at the begining of the year i asked him if he thought i was at the same level with the rest of the class he said i was.

But every time he rejects an idea i feel kinda ashamed of myself. I know i maybe shouldn`t be. I am by far not the only one who has bad ideas. And i don`t always get TIME to think of it. Do you guy think of your projects ALL the time?

Do you have any tips for brain storming?
I am good when i have another person with me... but generely i am alone



I had a teacher just last semester that had us do only 3 assignments. 2 of which were just one followed by the other on the same exact assignment just two due dates. Don't ask, it's complicated beyond what it should be.

At the end of the year it was assesment time. Instead of a final it was a evaluation of your work. Generally your COMPLETED work. Except this time the teacher didn't want to see ANY completed work, just all CONCEPT work. Well with two days left in the semester, I, woefully, and blissfully, unaware of this sudden change in the grading procedure went into my assesment and got told that all my work is crap, I don't have any ideas with me, and unless I make some by tomorrow that I will fail my class.

This is after I had done my goals for the semester, a small "getting to know the students" assignment the teacher had done, listed that working on just one idea out of many to try and focus my creativity was my goal to complete.


I showed up the next morning with 20 pages of ideas I made the night before. 8 small images a page.



Now I told that story to tell this next story.

My teacher for Computer Graphic Design does this. There is a list of projects to be finished by the end of the year, or by graduation depending on the level of class. You can either work on the assignments or go off on a tangent and just tinker with illustrator and photoshop. There is no lecturing, and there are no tutorials. The assignments are always the same generic assignments of most CGD classes. You just fill in the blanks and thats it. Complete freedom to do nearly anything. only it must involve working on something. Nothing is told to be unacceptable. If it is work, then it is graded. what that scale is I still don't know.

I hardly made anything, but pulled about 1000 photos from the internet, stock photos, my camera, and mooched from friends.




Feel any better about your teacher now?



And now for the rantings. Stay with me, I have a point.

I have heard of teachers and schools that demand their students to be "Creative and innovative" always coming up with new and flashy new ideas and designs. Two popular anti-teachers are the web comic artists Ian Mcconville and Matthew boyd. Creators of Mac Hall and Three Panel Soul.

Honestly the best adage to go by. "There are no new ideas". Which I find most people get that wrong to. Yep all ideas have been thought before. People are humans just like you, and they think just like you, and there are over 6 billion right now, and many many more have lived in the past. (hooray run on sentance!)

Now the reason I say people get this wrong is because they hear "There are no new ideas" and assume ALL ideas are still in use. They arn't. If they were, then this would be a very dull and repetive place just like day time TV often is. General Hospital at 7, ER at 8, Rescue Me at 9. Taken at once they are just the same theme. doctors getting into dramatic situations beyond just being doctors. Taken seperately they are three huge pieces of television that millions watch. And for those wondering, yes General Hospital is STILL on the air.

The reasoning. There are varients of every idea into a combined idea. Granted someone probably already thought of it, and might have released it, but if you make it your idea then it's new and exciting again. Then someone thinks you have a GREAT idea if you bring back a idea that has been forgotten. Like cement and concret. The Romans had it, but not the middle ages, or the rennisance, heck hardly most of the past 1000 years hasnt had it either. But someone refound the idea, slapped their name on the refounding, and made a mint.


Well if you read all that, then I hope it can help. If you didn't read all that and just skipped to the end. Then know that it's 3 am at time of writing. This should provide you with some guilt relief for having skimmed over.

oh and you asked how we get our own ideas. I generally just stare off into space and think about nothing in particular until my mind gets bored and focuses on something. Great for ideas, really really bad for working though.