Any science boffins/parents out there?

[doctorfoz]

Who can help me explain to my rather petulant 5 year old daughter why she has to go to be when it's still 'daytime' in the summer?

"because I said so" just isn't cutting it any more

My knowledge of solar orbits etc is rather rusty.

thanks

[captain spanky]

just let her stay up you mean, mean person.



;) :D

[garricks]

The founder of the Franklin Planner, in a lecture, talks about how his family gets up at 5 a.m. and spends a "golden hour" together in the morning.

"But how do you get them up at 5 a.m.?" the audience asks.
"Put them to bed at 8 p.m.," he replies.
"But how do you get them to go to sleep at 8 p.m.?" they ask, incredulous.
"Get them up at 5 a.m.!"

[doctorfoz]

helpful, none of this is

[Mynock]

Because you said so. Yes, hmmm.

[garricks]

sorry, yodafoz. kidlets, I have none. No help am I. :(

[Jam]

The world spins daily on an axis which isn't exactly vertical. It kind leans to one side. Now it also spins (orbits) around the sun in an oval pattern yearly.
It is this oval that creates the seasons and changes in day light.
It is still the same time but because we are closer to the sun and tilted slightly we have more day light. When winter comes the opposite happens and we have less day light. Even though it is sunny out side it is still your bed time.

We also use sleep to recharge our batteries, it helps us relax and our bodies mend and attend to any effects of the day - we also grow in our sleep.
Measure yourself first thing in the morning and last thing at night, our bodies compress during the day!!

Now get to bed because I said so!!

[doctorfoz]

actually posted the same question on Wikipedia. Here's the best response so far...

"Take the globe and place a table-lamp (with no lampshade) in the middle of the room. Turn off all the other lights. Put a "You are here" dot onto the globe where you live...a sticker or something. Now, hold the globe at the same height as the table-lamp bulb - and tilt it so that the imaginary line between the north and south pole is not quite vertical - the real world is tilted about 14 degrees...you don't have to be exact! Now you can walk around the table lamp to represent the earth orbiting the sun - each lap around the room is a year. You can spin the globe to show a day going by and watch your "You are here" sticker go through day/night cycles. As you walk around the tablelamp, it's VERY important how you hold the globe. Assuming you live in the northern hemisphere, during the "summer" the north pole should be closest to the lamp and the south pole furthest away...keep that tilt so that in the "winter" (when you are on the opposite side of the table lamp) the north pole is furthest away from the lamp. If you get that right then it will be possible to show that in summer, the lamp illuminates your "You are here" dot for more of the daily rotation than it does in winter. You may need to slightly exaggerate the amount of axial tilt to make that obvious.

Even if your kid doesn't understand it all now, she will at least learn that science can be fun, mysterious things can be explained, and her dad is the smartest man in the world."

(I'm really liking that last comment!)

[budafist]

What time is bedtime?

When we were little we had to go to bed by 9pm. If we missed that deadline we didn't get our nightly kisses and cuddles from our parents. It worked. But we were very good.

[Craig B]

You could just do the easy thing and block out all of your windows with drywall so that she has no idea whether it's still daylight out. Don't let her go outside at all once she gets back from school. That way you can start putting her to sleep around 5 p.m. if you have to.

I know that's probably the obvious approach though ....

[Bladez]

Nyquil does wonders :)

[budafist]

You could just do the easy thing and block out all of your windows with drywall so that she has no idea whether it's still daylight out. Don't let her go outside at all once she gets back from school. That way you can start putting her to sleep around 5 p.m. if you have to.

I know that's probably the obvious approach though ....

True...Some people keep their daughters in basement or concealed rooms. :(

[Craig B]

That's where I keep my wife, my child, my oddly shaped potato collection and all of my toenail clippings ...

[budafist]

TMI :eek:

[Tea]

You could tell them a boogie man story and then they'll never sleep. I think that's what my daughter did. She never, ever went to bed early. Very rarely took naps. I go to bed much earlier than her now. I gave up.

Sorry, no help here either.

[artistsdad]

"It's not really still daytime outside, it's the government. They don't care about little kids 'cause little kids can't vote. They changed the time to make it seem like it is still daylight because some big corporations gave them lots of money. If you go to bed now, you can get lots of rest and when you grow up, you can be in the government and fix things".

It's never too early to start 'em questioning the wisdom of the government. We need more radicals, and we have to start somewhere...

[budafist]

Lost it, artistsdad has. :D

[artistsdad]

Nay. Of sound mind and body, he is.

[doctorfoz]

lol. these are all great suggestions, everyone - thanks.

But I think I'll try the scientific approach first.

[Ovaltine]

I send both of mine to bed regardless whether they understand why. And "because I said so" works just fine if you're willing to back it up with "You'll be spanked if you don't." or "No reading/lava lamp if you don't brush your teeth and go to bed NOW."

Mine are 9 and 6. The oldest tries to reason his way out of it, but I won't have it.

It's like the way I've trained them for the impulse aisle. "If you ask for it, you definately WILL NOT get it, if I choose to surprise you with it you will get it, but if you ask for it before I've picked it up, you WILL NOT get it." My kids look at the candy et al, but do not pester me for it, and I rarely treat them to it. I feel sorry for the parents who cave to their screaming brat children, they only make it worse. The kid learns "if I pitch a fit in a public place I can get anything I want". Sometimes it's best to let them pitch their fit and NOT get anything (maybe a stern talking to and a swift spankin' when they get home-in public is NEVER the time to spank a child).

I think one of my kids got mad at me once in a store (he was very small at the time) because I wouldn't get something for him. I reminded him of the rule, and gave him a hug and kiss-neither of which he appreciated the 1st time. I remained calm and he calmed down after a bit, and I gave him more hugs-which he did eventually respond to.

Kids need bounderies and lots of love, and they need to know you are in charge, you are in control and they cannot manipulate you. They really do feel safer this way. And while it's good to explain things to children as best you can, sometimes they need to mind without explaination for their own safety and wellbeing.


...and that's all I have to say about that...

[Broacher]

Ha haha. Just wait until you encounter the TEENAGE BRAIN! Any established sleep patterns get tossed. But, speaking of science, as puberty is a time of great cellular restructuring, you have to accommodate.

[morea]

Logic?

What time does she get up in the morning? According to the site I checked, the official sunrise time was 4:09am today... so if she slept in later than that she was wasting perfectly good daylight. If she doesn't get UP with the sun, why should she go to bed with the sun?

Does she go to bed at 4:30pm in the winter just because it's dark then? :p If you put it that way, she'd probably be happy that bed times are consistent year round. :)

[doctorfoz]

very true Morea. We try to aim for a consistent 7.30pm, and she's normally awake around 7.30/8.00am. I'm going to try the lamp/globe experiment tomorrow. (Failing that, I'll be getting the hammer and nails out to board her in her room until she's at least 20 - safely avoiding the whole 'puberty' thing).

[Ovaltine]

We recently had to adjust our kids bed time scheduals (slightly difficult since they share a room). The 6 year old had been giving me great difficulty in the morning, so I've moved his bed time to 7:30, the 9 year old has been displaying a great deal more responsibility, and as a reward I moved his bed time to 8:30. When I remember to send them to bed at their appointed times bed-time is much more peacful, and so is the following morning.

[doctorfoz]

it's a little more complex in my house. My son - who is six - has certain issues which makes him much more tired, towards the end of the day, than his younger sister. But they have their own rooms - so it's not as bad as if they were sharing

[John G]

Because the summertime is when monsters come out of dark closets everywhere to feed so they can reproduce. The only problem is the children that they feed on has to be awake. The sun knows this and is just trying to give the little children a head start so they aren't fed to the evil closet monster overlord.

You can also use this opportunity to teach them that saying curse words keeps the evil monsters away. Hours of entertainment right there.

[budafist]

You can also use this opportunity to teach them that saying curse words keeps the evil monsters away. Hours of entertainment right there.

I can see John would make an excellent baby sitter.