Basic art/graphics technique question.

[echoflynew]

Basic art/graphics technique question.

Is tracing a valid way to learn to draw?? Is it a valid method and what are the limitations on what someone would learn using this technique?

I don't think it matters if we're talking old fashioned onion skin paper over item or computer based hand tracing using a tablet.:)


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[Maximus katana]

I think its a valid way to begin to learn to draw. You can help teach your muscles to make certain shapes and such, but other then that not much more I think can be had from it. I think one of the limitations is your not really using your creative imaginations, and another that your not really learning to do something freehand still, you have a guide, and eventually you need to learn to do it yourself instead of relying on others, but I think for just starting out its ok, but dont get too used to tracing.

[mojoprime]

drawing is a mechanical skill. it can be taught; folks can be taught to reproduce what they see. but creativity comes from a different vein, and that separates the true artists or creatives from those who just reproduce what they see.

so, yes, tracing can help you learn but so can getting some "how to" books and taking a class. those will also help you find your own path to your creative outlet, which i think will be more rewarding in the end.

that being said, a lot of us make a real good living reproducing what we see... ;)

[Broacher]

Is buying a cookbook and following a recipe a valid way to learn to cook?

[mojoprime]

it's a way to learn how to know your way around the kitchen. it can teach you how to put things together, how to do certain techniques (like blanching, melting chocolate properly, carving meat, etc.).

but can it teach you how to create your own dishes from scratch?

no, i don't think so. at least from a personal standpoint. i can cook, and i can say i'm fairly good at it. i watched my mom the entire time i was growing up, and she helped me along. she was a great teacher. but i can't create a single (ok, i've got one or two) recipe on my own. i can reproduce her stuff, and the stuff of others, and follow their recipes and achieve their results, but i never really learned how to do it completely from scratch. to stare at a spice rack, the produce section of the grocery and the meat counter, and see Chateaubriand with herbed carrots and horseradish potatoes.

but i *am* able to do that in graphic design. i learned to draw by reproducing other's works, but at some point (and i don't remember when -- i'm sure a lot of us don't) i crossed over to being able to create what i see in my head. to stare at a blank sheet of paper or screen, and find the image that's trying to get out. i'm not perfect by any means, and i'm not an illustrator or painter of beautiful portraits. but i'm a decent designer (*knock on wood*) and i make a good living at it.

[mojoprime]

i don't know if i answered your question, and it's certainly not the answer for everyone. i can't always find my way out of the visual puzzle that starts with a creative brief, but like everyone, i have my good days and bad days.

[Broacher]

A lot depends on what you're tracing too. For instance, I bet most of us would glean a lot more from studying/tracing the sketches of Rembrandt than they would his finished paintings. It's often far more valuable to see what mistakes were made, and adjusted than it is to simply 'copy/paste' final art.

That applies to just about everything. The expert is someone who knows how avoid and/or quickly correct the common mistakes "while sweeping on towards their grand fallacies".

[seamas]

Tracing helps you practice tracing, and you'll be a better tracer.

As for drawing, nothing beats life drawing, and the techniques involved therein.
Blind contour (sort of like tracing, but taken to the next level), gesture drawings, observation of negative space, drills and other techniques can make one a better draughtsperson.

Drills are great. Especially if you have a mode,l -(but still life -or a stature will work well too).
Start with 2 minutes to draw the subject.
Do about four 2 minute drills,
Then six to eight 1 minuted drills,
then work your way down to 15 second drills.
Slowly work your way back up to a series of 2 minute drills.


Then work a drawing for 15 minutes.

Do this for 2-3 hours 3-4 days a week.

In the short 15 second drills you should be able to render the total subject. The idea is to get in the habit of working from the general to the specific. Details are for later on. Too many times a beginner works up details too early, and have an akward gesture. Parts are good, but the whole is severely flawed. Better to have the "whole" done well with details left out.

Use cheap newsprint (18X24) and vine charcoal. You will go through hundreds of sheets of newsprint.

It is the old fashioned way to learn to draw, but centuries prove it is one of the best ways to learn. Spend 80% of your drawing time on the subject -you should only rarely be looking at the paper -and only to double check placement.
(too many beginners spend 80% of the time looking at their drawing rather than the subject -totally wrong way of working)

Also get a copy of Betty Edwards' Drawing on the Right Side of The Brain (http://www.amazon.com/New-Drawing-Right-Side-Brain/dp/0874774241/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214245302&sr=1-1)
it is a classic for a very good reason. It works.
Anyone with reasonably good eyesight can learn to draw -they just need to learn to see. (hands and manual dexterity are a distant third in importance to vision and mental perception)

[Tea]

As an art teacher who teaches some pretty intense drawing skills....yes...tracing will help with your skills because what is happening is your teaching yourself to observe more intensely. I began with a light box to trace with as a kid and it was my favorite.

That being said, if you want to learn on your own..follow the advice seamas gave and spend a few bucks on Betty Edwards book. I use many of the concepts in there to teach with, but the one thing I have to really pound in is too not be afraid of "pushing the values" . It's what will make your drawing pop.

Those skills were used by the 9th grader who did this. I allow photo references for these drawings, but they do not project the image on the 18 x 24 inch paper. It's all about observation.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3111/2604585859_515d14a75a_o.jpg

[budafist]

Learning how to draw is about observation. Tracing will help you learn to draw. I bet if you traced something enough times, you could do it without a master.

[Randomhero]

Learning how to draw is about observation. Tracing will help you learn to draw. I bet if you traced something enough times, you could do it without a master.

Ah, but then could you draw something else equally good? If not then all it did was help you draw one picture very well. Not the best.

[budafist]

Well, you could always take photos of everything in the world, then trace them. ;)

I found that if I wanted to know how to draw something I would just draw it from many different angles. Once I "knew" how the object "went" you just can't take that knowledge away.

[seamas]

hmmm, sometimes going 2d to annother 2d makes for a flat representaion.

The great life drawings, and paintings bring more illusion of depth to the party.
Tracing can be useful, but no comparison to the techniques and knowledge arrived at by life drawing. (which requires tracing, but one of a much different caliber)

[Kristine65]

Tracing helps you practice tracing, and you'll be a better tracer.

As for drawing, nothing beats life drawing, and the techniques involved therein.
Blind contour (sort of like tracing, but taken to the next level), gesture drawings, observation of negative space, drills and other techniques can make one a better draughtsperson.

Drills are great. Especially if you have a mode,l -(but still life -or a stature will work well too).
Start with 2 minutes to draw the subject.
Do about four 2 minute drills,
Then six to eight 1 minuted drills,
then work your way down to 15 second drills.
Slowly work your way back up to a series of 2 minute drills.


Then work a drawing for 15 minutes.

Do this for 2-3 hours 3-4 days a week.

In the short 15 second drills you should be able to render the total subject. The idea is to get in the habit of working from the general to the specific. Details are for later on. Too many times a beginner works up details too early, and have an akward gesture. Parts are good, but the whole is severely flawed. Better to have the "whole" done well with details left out.

Use cheap newsprint (18X24) and vine charcoal. You will go through hundreds of sheets of newsprint.

It is the old fashioned way to learn to draw, but centuries prove it is one of the best ways to learn. Spend 80% of your drawing time on the subject -you should only rarely be looking at the paper -and only to double check placement.
(too many beginners spend 80% of the time looking at their drawing rather than the subject -totally wrong way of working)

Also get a copy of Betty Edwards' Drawing on the Right Side of The Brain (http://www.amazon.com/New-Drawing-Right-Side-Brain/dp/0874774241/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214245302&sr=1-1)
it is a classic for a very good reason. It works.
Anyone with reasonably good eyesight can learn to draw -they just need to learn to see. (hands and manual dexterity are a distant third in importance to vision and mental perception)

I've mentioned before "I can't draw to save my life". The thing that's frustrated me the most on this GD course is that everything required thumbnails and mine were almost stick figures etc. and looked a lot like a preschoolers doodle :( I was looking forward to doing a drawing class next semester until we were told we prolly wouldn't have it (explained by the head teacher that if you can't draw now a few lessons wouldn't help... man was I cranky about that attitude).

Someone else has mentioned the Betty Edwards book so I'll be looking to get that soon. But your advice is great, Seamus and I intend to follow it as much as possible over our mid year break. There wont be 2-3 hours every other day for practice once class goes back ;) Thanks much!