SUSPICIOUS JOB OFFERS - DEBATE

[Raven]

Well,

I'm not sure this is the first time this matter is
discussed, I hope not, I just did not found one.

http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/default.aspx?f=7&m=88169

....and the things that was said there filled me with sadness

And this post aint the worst. Payments like remote trucks, thankyou's etc. ......
most of the topics in these sections are build on similar base. MOST OF THEM.

WHAT ABOUT SOME REAL CENSORSHIP in these sections???

[Mickey]

What is your point?

Where do you really stand on this topic?

http://home.wi.rr.com/mygraphics/konceptcreative.jpg

[Neuro]

There have been a lot of articles written on this subject. It is a real sore spot for a lot of us designers. Because of contests and spec work a lot of us lose the opportunity to really make money off something. It is pathetic how many large companies (as well as everyday ppl) use this method. I had this happen when I had just started design a few years ago. The company ran a contest (exwife worked there) and I entered not even thinking about it. They paid me 250 for the logo and I felt good. Of course it's nice that they paid but now looking back I realize I got ripped off. This logo has been used for EVERYTHING. It feel good to see it on everything but I can't put it into my portfolio according to the contract I signed. I should of gotten a lot more for it. Of course I was happy to have gotten paid but there are too many times that we don't. Guess my real issue with the whole thing isn't money but respect. You wouldn't go to a resteraunt and ask for 5 meals to figure out which one you liked and then paid for just that one. They would charge you for ALL of it! Maybe not the best example but hope that shows my opinion.

'Thats just my opinion, I could be wrong.' - Dennis Miller

[Mickey]

That is a great example Cats! this is the only industry where the customer is allowed to do this crap! and it is because some designers don't have the confedence to tell these people to shove it up there asspipe!

http://home.wi.rr.com/mygraphics/konceptcreative.jpg

[pean77]

VIVA LE RESISTANCE!!!!

Lets start a revolution! LOL

[Raven]

Mickey

I was wrong....but if you take a look at previous posts like the one, you'll notice where I stand in all this.
The thing is - after all, you say to yourself - 250$ bucks is good price for a logodesign (for me, at least ...You see, after seeing so much offers for NO MONEY reward - you become 1. angry, 2. sad 3. You participate.

...And we, freelancers must do something about it.

[Mickey]

$250 is a fine price for a logo, IF THAT IS WHAT YOU AGREE UPON IN YOUR CONTRACT AND ARE SURE YOU WILL SEE THE MONEY IN THE END.

just never let the client trick you into spec work, notice I said 'trick' if you want to do spec work then go ahead and do it, but do it on your terms not the terms of some sh!t contest.

http://home.wi.rr.com/mygraphics/konceptcreative.jpg

[Drorain]

But all we do is play on a 'puter for five minutes and *poof* the fab logo is made, dont you think that its worth the time

In reality its a creative process that takes hours, and is part of our livelyhood. For our field to be better respected we need to command that respect. Contests simply dont do that

http://www.grivakisgraphics.com/images/img_logomark.jpg

"I Heart Chewie"
Oh Chewie I love U "click (http://wso.williams.edu/~rfoxwell/starwars/sounds/Chewie03.wav)"

********
Need a Powerbook? PM me or *click* (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5732618725&ssPageName= ADME:B:LC:US:1)

[Neuro]

Damn and this whole time I have been trying too hard! ha!

'Thats just my opinion, I could be wrong.' - Dennis Miller

[morea]

Swoosh!

I haven't lost my mind... it's backed up on disk somewhere.

[Neuro]

Oh come on 250 is good enough for a swoosh and a star burst!!! ha!

'Thats just my opinion, I could be wrong.' - Dennis Miller

[PrintDriver]

Don't forget to do it in Photoshop at 6'x6' at 72 dpi.
With 14 colors.
Maybe even a placed image.
That would be the nutz!

PrintDriver is a grande format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

[morea]

/emoticons/rofl.gif

I love it, PD!!!

I haven't lost my mind... it's backed up on disk somewhere.

[Drorain]

at 250 heres my submission


http://www.grivakisgraphics.com/images/img_logomark.jpg

"I Heart Chewie"
Oh Chewie I love U "click (http://wso.williams.edu/~rfoxwell/starwars/sounds/Chewie03.wav)"

********
Need a Powerbook? PM me or *click* (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5732618725&ssPageName= ADME:B:LC:US:1)

[morea]

^ Somehow I thought that was where this would end up going!

I haven't lost my mind... it's backed up on disk somewhere.

[Mickey]

Great job Drorain,

Now that is in jpg format at 72dpi so he can use it for his sign out front... right? /emoticons/blink.gif

http://home.wi.rr.com/mygraphics/konceptcreative.jpg

[Drorain]

yup, he couple even get it on a blimp

http://www.grivakisgraphics.com/images/img_logomark.jpg

"I Heart Chewie"
Oh Chewie I love U "click (http://wso.williams.edu/~rfoxwell/starwars/sounds/Chewie03.wav)"

********
Need a Powerbook? PM me or *click* (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5732618725&ssPageName= ADME:B:LC:US:1)

[pixellogo]

Mates I'm new here, but I'm glad I ran across this thread. Just this tuesday we did a long distance video presentation to a department of a Japanese food congolmerate. We researched the logo design project for almost a month and a half and contracted a statistics company to give us data on their target clientele and other aspects.
Day of presentation comes and we're flying high, they are absolutely loving us and consider us the second coming and the reincarnation of buddha combined. The presentation ends and the department head wants to get things rolling when all of a sudden he says calmly, and I kid you not, literaly this: 'I'm confident that we won't have to reject your final designs and we will purchase one'

Note the words 'final designs' and 'purchase one'

At that point I knew what we were in for and without losing my cool asked him what his expectation was because it seems clear that they've misunderstood us at some point. The idiot confirmed to me what I suspected: He expected to pay for one of the logos only after they like 'one' of the 'several' finished designs that we will present to them.

This is one of the illustrated directors of a congolmerate talking like this. So like Morea said above:
Swoosh and goodbye ********r

www.pixellogo.com/home.php?partner=bedig'>[b]<IMG src='http://www.pixellogo.com/banner.php?partner=bedig&bid=19' (http://www.pixellogo.com/home.php?partner=bedig'>[b]<IMG src='http://www.pixellogo.com/banner.php?partner=bedig&bid=19' width=88 height=31 border=0) width=88 height=31 border=0

[Mickey]

Contract, Contract, CONTRACT... ALWAYS

http://home.wi.rr.com/mygraphics/konceptcreative.jpg

[pixellogo]

Which brings me to the next and more funnier part Mickey.

Not only did we make a contract with them, but we also had a refusal fee included in order to cover the bare costs which we were going to, and indeed have when doing the research for this project.

Here's the funny part, when I decided to terminate this project because of their position, we asked them to wire the refusal fee as agreed upon. Here's their position: Since we did not present them any finished logo design from which they would have chosen (insulting huh?), they do not consider that this project EVEN STARTED (????) even though we have a signed agreement to commence with the project, and they are pulling some sort of japanese corporate law bylaw to support this. The refusal fee is not a big amount but we've decided to pursue it just for the sake of the principle and we're expecting a legal fight to start shortly.

What pisses me off is this: The worst breed of these kind of companies look for emerging logo designers or logo firms and then they think they can manipulate the situation in any way they can because we are not associated with some big shot ad firm or commercial printer.

www.pixellogo.com/home.php?partner=bedig'>[b]<IMG src='http://www.pixellogo.com/banner.php?partner=bedig&bid=19' (http://www.pixellogo.com/home.php?partner=bedig'>[b]<IMG src='http://www.pixellogo.com/banner.php?partner=bedig&bid=19' width=88 height=31 border=0) width=88 height=31 border=0