FREE WORK POSTS - READ THIS

[Allen Harkleroad]

We have decided that any futher "free work" type of posts are unacceptable and if someone posts oneafter viewing the note on the top of the page are open to any and all members to harrass, redicule, make fun of, etc. These free work posts shouldanger anyone that has anything to do with the design field. When they are asking for free work i believe it means they are to lazy or too cheap to pay for work, which means they are insulting anyone that has ever worked in the graphic designor other design industry.

I will be sure to single out any free work posts and express my and hopefully the entire groups general consensus that free work is a no-no on this forum and the free work topic poster are open game for a group mounted harrassement and redicule session.

Have a great day!
Allen Harkleroad
GDF Forum Administrator








Allen Harkleroad
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Post Edited (Coordinatore Allen) : 12/1/2004 1:45:22 PM GMT

[morea]

Please read these articles as to why spec work is unethical to our industry.


Why is speculative work bad?

Spec work can take the form of "contests" in which only the winner is paid, requests for work to be done before a client will agree to hire a designer, and things like that. Here are some of articles all about spec work and such:

A great blog from Pariah S. Burke of Designorati:

http://designorati.com/graphic-design/business-3/2006/coping-with-clients-who-use-your-concept-design-without-paying/
A client has taken your concept design and hired someone else to execute it for less money. The client is reaping the benefits of your talent and skill, but you’re still eating generic mac n’ cheese. What recourse do you have?


In their own words, why these designers are against Speculative Design Competitions (from creative latitude) www.creativelatitude.com/articles/articles_logo_this.html

Why Speculative Work is Unethical, by Habib Bajrami (from creative latitude)
www.creativelatitude.com/articles/article_0804_habib.html

The problem with spec work revisited, by Neil Tortorella (from creative latitude) www.creativelatitude.com/neils_newbies/neils_newbies_11_04_spec.html

Why We Don't Make Speculative Presentations, by Creative Business
www.creativelatitude.com/articles/articles_cb_spec.html

This week’s 4-letter word: SPEC (from Be A Design Group)
www.beadesigngroup.com/blog/archives/000315.html

The Creative Forum: When a Contest is not a Contest
thecreativeforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64

Spec Work: just say no. Why Working on Spec isn't a good idea - from about.com
graphicdesign.about.com/cs/workingfromhome/a/specwork.htm

Spec work vs. Pro Bono - from about.com
desktoppub.about.com/cs/freelance/qt/spec_probono.htm

AIGA: Design Competitions and Spec Work
www.aiga.org/content.cfm?contentalias=designcompandspecwork

Spec Sucks for Everyone:
ad-rag.com/118868.php

Spec Is So Not Special - "Engaging in spec work is eroding the image of designers. It perpetuates the falsehood that what we do is easy or valueless." -Drew Davies, founder of Oxide Design
www.adpulp.com/archives/000162.html

On the creative latitude site they have a downloadable letter to send to these types of competitions.

It can be found here: www.creativelatitude.com/links/resources_downloads.html
At the very bottom.

[whammajamma]

Designers and artists are industry leaders! Through our creativity and inventivness people make alot of money. Iam not just talking graphic design look at all forms of design from cars to clothes to.....well anything! I have had people say to me too many times...'can you knock me up a logo!' or 'do me a web page design' I'll sort you out! Man I have been in this industry for 15 years now worked with most of the worlds major companies and I still get it.

start the storm man I have got your back!

JH from www.feedmecoolshit.com

[danedawg99]

Someone found an ad for a Design contest on Craigslist, and repliedwith this...
re: fashion/graphic design contest

Reply to: see below
Date: 2006-01-11, 4:30PM MST


NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO


okay, lets assume the best.. that the firm doing this really just doesn't understand how incredibly wrong this is. (hey firm, its WRONG)

but if you are even THINKING of preparing something for them, cmon, grow a brain. Its one thing to work for nothing (150$?) but its QUITE another to work for the CHANCE of 150. Besides, how will you ever know if you've won or lost or if they're honoring their agreement.

BTW, firm, I don't know what you do, but lets assume you build computers. What you're asking people to build a custom computer that will only work for your business. Spend the time, money, materials. Then, if you happen to like their computer, you will pay them 100$ for it. IF. And if you don't? they're out the money, time, etc.


What is the CORRECT way to do this?

Ask for bids, RFPs. Look at portfolios, interview artists. Find one you like, and then write a contract and pay them a reasonable price.

Compensation: 500$ min
no -- Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
no -- Please, no phone calls about this job!
no -- Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.
no -- Reposting this message elsewhere is NOT OK.

[jlknauff]

had to add my .02 worth (http://www.wildfiremarketinggroup.com/blog/index.php/2006/01/21/why-most-design-firms-won-t-do-spec-work)

[AlexNJ210]

this is just a question, if you are a student and you are asked to do spec work but you have a lot of creative control and your work will be published, lets say in a newsletter of a school or some local business, would that be worth while to invest in?

Allbeit, i see the underhandedness of requests for spec work but i was wondering if this situation is different.

[Epectasis]

this is just a question, if you are a student and you are asked to do spec work but you have a lot of creative control and your work will be published, lets say in a newsletter of a school or some local business, would that be worth while to invest in?

Allbeit, i see the underhandedness of requests for spec work but i was wondering if this situation is different.

one of the things that i had been told while in school (my brief stint anyways) was that if a job comes along that would:

a) give you better exposure
b) potentially lead to something bigger
c) is excellent experience and will look good in a portfolio
d) all of the above

i was told to seriously seriously consider it. But like they've mentioned previously, if it's just to "knock up" something "quick" for free. then screw that.


I've had an experience similar to that last summer....Warning for anybody who is thinking about doing work for: Buffalo Jeans, David Bitton.

They were looking for designers for their print design department. I had gotten called in for an interview. Keep in mind that i had already sent in my portfolio and that they had called me after viewing it. What i brought to them was the same that i had already sent in.

So i go there, the receptionist is incredibly rude and im already getting a sense of dread (warning! warning!). The lady that called me comes semi down the stairs (read: barely) and calls me up. So i head up, shake hands with her and then am lead into some kind of space ship room (i kid you not).

We sit down and she asks to look at my portfolio again. I'm generally not very sensitive when someone looks at my portfolio, but that's because they actually look at it. This girl just leafed through the thing without even looking like she was interested.

When she was done, she says to me: "you dont have any fashion related designs in here". (no kidding genius, i didnt have any when i sent the portfolio the first time, so why did you call me??) I proceed to explain to her that i had never had a chance to do anything fashion design related but that im always open to new challenges and i feel that i have the creative talent to do so.

She then says: "Well we're looking for someone who is really in touch with the fashion industry and knows what tomorrow's fashion will be (how many of you can declare such a feat??). You dont have anything in your portfolio that we would be looking for".

So im a lil bummed out (let's also remember that this is the HR person and not the creative director of the design department who's interviewing me, so the chances of her to actually see potential are pretty small as she knows as much about design that i do about HR) but what can i do now?

So as i figure that this interview turned out to be a huge waste of my time and hopes she pops in a quick one: "I know there is'nt anything in your portfolio that shows what we want, but what you can do is design something and show it to us and we'll see if it corresponds to our criterias".

I should point out that at that very moment i alarms went off in my head, the bad kind.

"This year's fashion is headed towards Folk style. So we're looking for something along those lines. What we'd be judging you by is the creation of a back pocket stitch on, a shirt logo and a brand logo. So if you want, create something with this in mind and we'll see from there." Folk style for those who dont know is sort of like the 60's-70's style. The fashion is sort of lame like that, like they dont invent anything new. They just bring back the same thing over and over. Boooooooring.

Now im thinking "hmmmm, are they thinking about ripping me off? That if i do something they like that they are going to give me the job? Or just use my ideas? Is this worth taking the risk?" I made the wrong choice. I said yes. We are tuesday btw. I tell her that i could have something to her by friday. She says that's no good. She wants it ASAP. As in BY Thursday morning.

I should point out that i know NOTHING about fashion. I mean i can dress pretty well and all, but i take no notice of the industry's direction or whatever, i dont care much for fashion (to each his own). So i had a lot of research ahead of me (again, alarms!!!).

I headed downtown right away to the book stores, spent pretty much my whole afternoon there. Came back home and made my search on the internet all night, jostling down ideas. I even asked my more fashion inclined female friends.

After all that research, i get cracking. Much work later, i managed to get something in just in time. I knew this was a mistake and i did it anyways, in the slight hope that my intuition would be wrong (for once).

The next day i get an email from the girl thanking me for my work and that this was really not what they were looking for, but thank you anyways and have a nice life. I should mention that her email was full of typos. *****!!!

So yeah, that was totally not cool and i was stupid to have done it in the first place. I should of just, politely, told her to go shove it up her behind.

The worse thing is, i have fellow designers and friends who have worked for Buffalo and have heard the similar stories that i have. It's a terrible company to work for and no consideration for it's employees. Shame on me.

[EC]

First rule of business, trust your gut. You can only learn this lesson the hard way, unfortunately.

[Ovaltine]

When I was just out of college, I was freelancing to make ends meet while my husband was finishing school. I couldn't take a regular job, because someone had to watch our 6mo. old son while hubby was in class.

I would go to the college job building to find clients (there was a book full of all kinds of things the locals wanted students to do, mostly 'cause they figured we'd be cheap, they were right). Anyway, one of the entries was for a local law firm which wanted a logo.

I contacted them and set up an interview to discuss what they were looking for. Somewhere along the lines it came out that they wanted us (several students) to do designs and then the designs would be submitted to a committee which would vote on which one they liked. The "winner" would get $500.

I remember looking at this lawyer and thinking, "you scum bucket, I am not your personal sketch pad!" As I recall, I told him that wasn't the way graphic designers worked, and he needed to find another way. (The only reason I knew it was wrong was because of the "Buisness of Graphic Design" class that I took Senior year of college.)

I don't know if that layer ever got his logo, but I had mouths to feed, and couldn't afford to waste time on something that MIGHT pay off.

[morea]

well said.

[Logo-Mechanix]

Lawyers, reporters and politicians ugh!

[morea]

bump: do not ask for free work here.

calling it a "contest" just makes the concept more disgusting. See how many car mechanics will fix your vehicle for free in hopes of impressing you enough that you go back to them if you ever happen to need anything.

[morea]

http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14836

[morea]

I appreciated this quote from MD in response to a recent request for free work.


apple macpro = $2500
30" Monitor = $2000
Adobe Software Package = $1200
QuarkXpress = $700
Decent Laser Printer = $1000
Decent Color Laser Printer = $3000
Scanner = $500

When I am bored with making a living I will PM you right away ;)

[The_Black_Knight]

I appreciated this quote from MD in response to a recent request for free work.And don't forget:

Bachelor of Fine Arts in Graphic Design = $20,000 to $80,000+ (in U.S. dollars) and four years of hard work and training

[morea]

pretty much.

I also liked this quote from the same thread:

Ill do it for Free! But I get to sleep with you wife.

[wienerdog]

I'm amazed how other professionals expect work for free and then decide if you'll get paid. The other day, I was talking about the business of graphic design with the head of sales and business development at my company, and he said the only reason a design professional would take work that doesn't pay well, or not at all, is all up to them. You only get paid as low as you are desperate for work. If you have a decent portfolio, you should spend time getting a few clients that pay well instead of a bunch of low-bidder cheapskates to make ends meet.

I'm the only designer at my company, a consulting firm, and what they would charge for my services would shock you (now, I'm probably getting paid 1/2 or 1/3 of that, but the company should make $ off of my services). It sure as hell shocked me, but honestly, they're getting clients who would pay my firm as professionals, and expect to pay that amount, as professionals.

It really helped me understand the concept of not underselling yourself, and gave me new insight into seeking freelance work. Trying to get work from the local soccer moms is probably not worth my freetime for what they'd pay. If I'm going to work in excess of my already 50-hour work week, I should get clients who pay me like I'm worth it.

[Logo-Mechanix]

You are right on Wienerdog, I have had people become shocked when after they scoff at my initial quote to them and I will not go lower. It blows my mind, I mean you are not haggling over a used car here. My price is final there is no haggling, it is what it is. If you can get your nephew to do it for free than why have you contacted me in the first place?

[adr3naline]

I had read a post once, thought I read it here, but I must be wrong. Anyway, the post described how there are fewer "professional" designers than neurosurgeons out there! And it went on to compare the number of designers versus other highly respected occupations. Would you ask 5 neurosurgeons to do a surgery, then decide which one you like the best to pay? HA!

If anybody knows where that post was, I'd love to re-read it... and bookmark it. I loved it!

[morea]

was it this one?

If Other Businesses Were Like Graphics (http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5726)

[adr3naline]

Nope, I did some more searching and found it, it's great.

[/URL][URL="http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23924"]Don't Work for Free (http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23924)

[PsichoGraphic]

very well said! :)