Question: Overlapping Image

[GraphicsMang]

Hi, I just wondering I'm getting something printed and want to know wether the printers will know that its suppose to be overlapping.

For example this is what my InDesign page looks like in "normal"

http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/2015325/640/2015325.png

But really when it gets printed the CD image is suppose to be cut in half. This is in "preview mode"

http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/2015344/640/2015344.png

Will this cause confusion when getting printed professionally?

[budafist]

I get it and I work for a print company. Give the printers a pdf with the specified bleed plus trim marks. Ask for a printed proof and check that is correct. I don't see what the problem would be...

[eugenetyson]

No it won't.

[GraphicsMang]

Also I didn't want to make another thread so ill ask it here.

I have an image in the Indesign doc. and when that page is on view at 75% and 125% it looks crystal clear but then when I view that page at 100% it goes a bit blurry... any reason for it or should I do anything. Or just take my chances and hope it prints clear?

[eugenetyson]

Don't trust what you see on screen. Read my signature.

Also, check the Effective PPI of your images in the Info Panel (Window>Info Panel)

Select each image in the layout and ensure that the images are a minimum or 225 PPI (some people say 300 PPI but truly the min is 225 PPI based on a 150lpi, for 175lpi the min is 266 PPI)


Once these are ok in the EFFECTIVE ppi then you should be ok.

To view a higher preview of the document go to View>Document Display Settings - this is just a preview of your image - InDesign makes thumbnails of the images to insert in the layout for Display purposes only to speed up the Viewing. Don't worry - the actual image is used when printed.

Check to see how it prints and check to see how it PDFs. If it's fine on both then you're ok. Make sure you have no broken links or strange symbols in the Links Panel (notably a yellow triangle or a red circle with a question mark inside)

[mojoprime]

if you're really OCD, you can use the pen tool to edit your picture box to conform to the bleed guides.

[eugenetyson]

if you're really OCD, you can use the pen tool to edit your picture box to conform to the bleed guides.


You don't want to do that. Get the cd. Measure where it needs to bleed off. Get a scalpel or sharp sharp knife. Trim the CD to fit the shape. Rescan it.

That way you're sure.

:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p

[mojoprime]

and why is that? i do it all the time without any issues at all, either PDF-wise or through sending the files. trim the CD? what if it's the only copy they have, the sample or something?

[eugenetyson]

and why is that? i do it all the time without any issues at all, either PDF-wise or through sending the files. trim the CD? what if it's the only copy they have, the sample or something?


I was joking :o

[mojoprime]

more:

quark has had the custom picture box tool since i can remember, back to version 3, which basically does the same thing. indesign has a option that lets you specify the content of a box; i mean, hell, you can make a compound path of letters into a picture box and put an image into it.

so, clearly, that's a part of the program. i have literally been doing that, over two different programs and several platforms (Mac OS 7 to XP, and everything inbetween) without it ever causing an issue, nor have i ever seen any documentation to indicate that it would be an issue.

[mojoprime]

ok. then put a smiley in there or something, but it's rather hard to tell sometimes without it.

[eugenetyson]

I thought it was just a ridiculous idea and wouldn't be taken seriously by anyone. But I know, inflections are lost in translation. :D

Sorry bout that.

Peace Up
A-Town

[mojoprime]

i've seen crazier. ;)

[eugenetyson]

Where ya think I got my idea from? I had someone do it for real. Between that, putting a ruler on the screen to measure something and Cork Express (http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=677647&postcount=32), I'm still unsure which is the funniest, insaniest thing I've seen.

[CkretAjint]

FYI, your 9/10 in the orange dot is not vertically centered and it is driving me insane! *can't take his eyes off of it!!!!!!* :mad:

[mojoprime]

i thought that was just me. still, i like to give the benefit of the doubt. i mean, we didn't see the whole thing s maybe that was done for a reason? i dunno. but yeah, those are things that bug the crap out of me too.

[BeautyNut]

I may have a silly question here, but:

Instead of having the CD hang off the margins in Indesign, which will be ok when exported into a PDF->

COULD you measure the cd and find exactly where the cd needs to be placed in Indesign THEN take it into Illustrator or maybe Photoshop to cut off the unnessary parts?

And modify that way, if possible?

-OR-
Would that be a complete waste of time?

Just learning!
Thank you!

[longboy]

-OR-
Would that be a complete waste of time?

I wouldn't bother editing the original image if it's this small of an image (looks like 4-5" in size). I have to do a ton of image prep/cropping with my company's imagery, but that's all 1-2GB images before I put them in a 8½x11" printed piece. But that's an entirely different plate of beans.

[BeautyNut]

all 1-2GB images before I put them in a 8½x11" printed piece.

Thank you.

Wow, Questions, please:

1. how big is a 1-2 GM picture (can the picture be of anything?) how does it get so big?
2. how in the world do you re-size to an 8.5x11?

I'd love to see this in action.

[longboy]

Without getting too wordy, I work with satellite imagery of Earth. My images I use are 1-2GB (gigabytes) each before I edit them to the size I need. To resize, I open them in Photoshop and crop them down to the AOI (Area of Interest) and then resample the image to get the proper dimensions and PPI (pixels per inch) that I need.

[eugenetyson]

BeautyNut - there is no need to crop the image in photoshop. Whatever hangs off the edge of the page in indesign won't print.

If it is hanging off the edge, or close to the edge, it's best to have it at least 3mm off the edge of the page for sufficient bleed.

[BeautyNut]

longboy,
Thanks for the explanation.
Wow, sounds interesting.

eugenetyson,
Got it, thank you!

But, typically, it should be in PDF format for print, correct?

[eugenetyson]

PDF is fast becoming the standard format for supplying to the printers.

Always check with your printers and ask them do they have any specs or rules you should follow.

[SurfPark]

Many printers will ask for both. Sometimes its easier to print from a PDF, but if they need to do adjustments for size, it becomes a pain. For piece of mind, I usually do a preflight and a PDF and put them in the same folder.

Also, make sure you know what version of InDesign your printer is using!

[garricks]

FYI, your 9/10 in the orange dot is not vertically centered and it is driving me insane! *can't take his eyes off of it!!!!!!* :mad:

The kerning on the 9/10 also needs fixing. "1" needs to be kerned 90% of the time because the 'faces use tabular rather than proportional spacing, or the designer forgets to check it.

<--Has to set ZIP Code 63110 frequently. ;)

[GraphicsMang]

Select each image in the layout and ensure that the images are a minimum or 225 PPI




What happens if an image is under 200 PPI or even lower?

[eugenetyson]

If it's below 225 ppi it may print pixelated, jaggy edges.

It depends on the detail of the image. Like a foggy blurry image you could probably get as low as 150 ppi.

But an image with a lot of detail, sharp edges etc. then you'll really notice the blockiness/pixelation.

The less detail in the image you can probably risk going a bit lower than 225 ppi.


If it's a picture with of detail, then you should make the image smaller in the layout. When you make the image smaller, it pushes the pixels together, therefore you have more pixels per inch (ppi)

If you make an image larger it stretches the pixels further apart, therefore you have less pixels per inch.


Note that InDesign won't add any unsharp masking to an image. So it may be best to resize it in photoshop, and then add a bit of unsharp masking. Unsharp Masking is a way sharpen contrasting pixels.



200 ppi might be a little too low for conventional litho printing. But it might be ok for digital printing, screen printing or large format printing.

You should check with your print provider too.

[GraphicsMang]

Thanks.

Also when I went to do a "test" export to PDF, all the black pages and large fonts in black turned into a grey colour.

What's the deal with that? Do I need to convert.

[eugenetyson]

That's a different kettle of fish.

It depends on your pdf settings and what colour management you're using and how you view the pdf in Acrobat.

There should be a thing under Tools>Overprint Preview (ok not that but the one under it, I can't recall the name of it)

But it will show you the separations. You can turn run the mouse over the black and see if it's 100% black. If it is then you're ok. Especially for text, make sure text is 100% black and not a build of CMYK.

[GraphicsMang]

Damn I just realized all the colour in my doc. is CMYK

I talked to the printers and they said to submit it in Indesign file format so should I make any adjustments?

[eugenetyson]

Just use File>package from InDesign and zip/stuffit that folder and send it to the printers.

If at all possible ask can you sit in and go through things.

I've done this with tonnes of designers to go over how to set things up for print.

[GraphicsMang]

Yeah good idea I will ask them.

Also about sig... Getting proof done, is that free of charge and what do they usually give you?

[eugenetyson]

You should always get a proof that has gone through the printers RIP.

You need to know what it looks like before it's printed in a really expensive process. If you get a proof and approve it, and the final print comes back not looking like the proof you signed off then you have a leg to stand on.

Also get as many higher authorities to sign off on the proofs. Authors, contributors, editors, proofreaders, etc.

[GraphicsMang]

If I went into the printing shop, would they give me a proof on the same day?

Also I tried a google search, didnt come back well. I want to know is there any way to find out all the fonts used within your doc. because it could take ages going through every text box.

[eugenetyson]

Getting a proof in a day depends on your printers. You need to contact them.


As for fonts, you can package those in indesign using File>Package and ticking the boxes in the lower left corner.


You don't have to go through each text box.

File>Pacakage will collect all the fonts you need.

[garricks]

I want to know is there any way to find out all the fonts used within your doc.

From the Menu bar, choose Type > Find Font... It will show you all fonts used in the document, and if you like can replace one font with another, even redefining the style sheets.

There are other options too. Poke around the other buttons. :)

[eugenetyson]

From the Menu bar, choose Type > Find Font... It will show you all fonts used in the document, and if you like can replace one font with another, even redefining the style sheets.

There are other options too. Poke around the other buttons. :)


Even moreso you can go to File>Preflight and follow the dialog boxes.

If you want to know the fonts though, just collect them up and view them in your Explorer/Finder.

Whichever; it's all good.

[garricks]

Even moreso you can go to File>Preflight and follow the dialog boxes.

If you want to know the fonts though, just collect them up and view them in your Explorer/Finder.

Whichever; it's all good.

The question was:

I want to know is there any way to find out all the fonts used within your doc.

I think I answered that rather well..

[eugenetyson]

The question was:



I think I answered that rather well..


You did, sir. And you made an excelent point; I was not trying to undermine you.

But also, if you package them, they are in a folder, all ready to send on to someone else, namely printers.

If you just view them, you can see them, you say "Yes I used that font".

But I thought graphmangs question was "how can i get my fonts to the printer to use?"

That's what I extrapolated from the question.


All in all, graphmangs has 2 ways to do what they want, so it's all good.

Peace up
A-Town

[GraphicsMang]

Thanks for clearing that up guys.

[GraphicsMang]

Yeah this is my first time dealing with all this stuff and It is very interesting at all the little details needed to correctly get things done.

So once you package everything and hand it on to the printers, does an employee open the indesign doc up and find the "box - eg. 2 missing fonts" which are not in his computer and then from the package file just add fonts to like font book on mac?

[GraphicsMang]

eugenetyson... about the effective ppi and acutal...


I have an image that is 72 actual and 462 effective, is that going to look bad when printed? Im just asking because all my other images have a higher "acutal"

[doctorfoz]

Do you mean that you've placed your 72dpi image in indesign, and then scaled it down to 15% or so? I always thought it was better practice to use photoshop to adjust the resolution before placing them. To answer your question, it should be ok when printed... but it's not something I'd leave. Just in case.

On a further but related note, it's been over a year since I was in the industry. What's the score now about packaging up fonts as part of a job and sending them to your printer? Last I heard, there was all sorts of debate about the legality of doing that.

[eugenetyson]

eugenetyson... about the effective ppi and acutal...


I have an image that is 72 actual and 462 effective, is that going to look bad when printed? Im just asking because all my other images have a higher "acutal"

If the Effective ppi is over 225 ppi then you're ok.

Ideally your images should be at around 300 ppi. 225 is the minimum.

Do you mean that you've placed your 72dpi image in indesign, and then scaled it down to 15% or so? I always thought it was better practice to use photoshop to adjust the resolution before placing them. To answer your question, it should be ok when printed... but it's not something I'd leave. Just in case.

On a further but related note, it's been over a year since I was in the industry. What's the score now about packaging up fonts as part of a job and sending them to your printer? Last I heard, there was all sorts of debate about the legality of doing that.

Yes it would be better to adjust it in Photoshop.

Linkoptimizer (http://www.zevrix.com/linkoptimizer.php) is a neat plugin for InDesign.

[artgem1984]

Do you mean that you've placed your 72dpi image in indesign, and then scaled it down to 15% or so? I always thought it was better practice to use photoshop to adjust the resolution before placing them. To answer your question, it should be ok when printed... but it's not something I'd leave. Just in case.

On a further but related note, it's been over a year since I was in the industry. What's the score now about packaging up fonts as part of a job and sending them to your printer? Last I heard, there was all sorts of debate about the legality of doing that.

Could outline and send if you are worried about legalities. If you want it to print right, we need the font or outlining. Or a PDF with fonts PROPERLY embedded. Oh the dramas I've had...;)

[eugenetyson]

Fonts are automatically emebeded when you Export a PDF from InDesign. (Except in the case where Font Restrictions are in place by the manufacturer of the font that restricts embedding)

In the advanced section of the PDF Dialog Export box

Subset fonts when percent of characters used is less than 100%

It's a confusing sentence but basically:

set at 100% it will only embed the glyphs used in the document.

at 0% it will emebed every glyph in the font, regardless of whether you used it or not.


This means that at 100% if you have not used the number "1" for example, and you ask someone to add that to the PDF at a later stage (in acrobat) they will not be able to do so without having that font.

If you set it to 0% then all the glyphs are embedded in the PDF and you can add any glyph to the PDF that is available in the font.


Setting your fonts to 0% subset will cause a large PDF. Basically because it is storing more glyphs. Kanji fonts and things like that have 10,000's of glyphs, so you may not want to embed all those glyphs, for example.

[doctorfoz]

This means that at 100% if you have not used the number "1" for example, and you ask someone to add that to the PDF at a later stage (in acrobat) they will not be able to do so without having that font.

If you set it to 0% then all the glyphs are embedded in the PDF and you can add any glyph to the PDF that is available in the font.

Thanks Eugene, I always wondered why some would accept type changes and some wouldn't! But what do you mean by '100%' or '0%'? Font size? Scaling?

[eugenetyson]

Ok there's 2 options to go through.

Preferences>General

Font Downloading and Embedding:
Always subset fonts with glyph counts greater than: 2000
(you can insert your own figure)

This setting in preferences will ensure that any fonts used in the document that have more than 2000 glyphs will always be subset. That means that only the glyphs used in the font will be sent to the print device or exported.

If you work with a lot of fonts that have a lot of glyphs or open type features, you may want to take that number down to 1000 or something.

When you send your file to a print device or export it you can choose to include all characters of the font or just the ones used in the document. (subset)


So onto the PDF export options

In this dialog box in the Advanced section there is the

Subset fonts when percent of characters used is less than 100%
(insert own figure here, from 0% to 100%)

When you subset a font you only use those glyphs/characters that are used in the document.

When you set this to 100% it will subset (only use) 100% of the glyphs used in the document.

When you select 0% you choose to not subset any fonts, this means that the entire set of glyphs/characters in the font are embedded.