Click to See Complete Forum and Search --> : Need some harsh crit on a business card design
http://www.iloveleglocks.com/memphisbjj/memphisbjjcard073108alexmockup7.jpg
On this card this isn't the absolute final front image but close. I am curious about the open space and the layout and how it can be improved on. I have been reading on blogs about business cards and ideas to improve the look and impact of them and I am just curious how I can improve on this.
I expect to get banged on up this one and if people are telling me to start over I will take heed to that.
eugenetyson
07-31-2009, 09:11 PM
How does it look withou the image on the back.
And can you make the logo that is tiny on the front just about 150% bigger?
How does it look withou the image on the back.
And can you make the logo that is tiny on the front just about 150% bigger?
the front of the card is actually
http://www.iloveleglocks.com/memphisbjj/turnage/memphisbjjcard060309turnagefront%20-%20GENERIC.jpg
but I didnt put it on there because I have to change the background picture.
and it's sideways lol
I wanted to see about more improvement on the back
eugenetyson
07-31-2009, 09:17 PM
I would like to see the logo on the red background with no image.
Just make it a bit plainer. Comes across busy. Very 2000 thing too, if you know what I mean?
I would like to see the logo on the red background with no image.
Just make it a bit plainer. Comes across busy. Very 2000 thing too, if you know what I mean?
you are not the first person to tell me this, I am going to do this sometime tonight and try it less busy.
What's the word on gradients? Should I avoid any type of gradient?
BeautyNut
07-31-2009, 11:31 PM
I like the layout.
You've done a nice job.
I just want to ask:
1- Why vertical layout - why not horizontal?
(I like both, I'm just trying to get your thought process).
2- the email gets a little lost within all the other information, but that may be your intention.
3- I like your picture, but I agree, I'd love to see it on a plain background. I think that would really change the look and feel, or at least see.
4- Physical address? What if prospective students wanted to check out the place?
Overall, I think you've done a great job, and by no means am I an expert. ;) I'm just trying to give you a different perspective - or from someone - who might receive the card.
I'd love to hear others' feedback as well.
:)
salsa
07-31-2009, 11:52 PM
The whole card feels a bit formal for a Judo/Jiu-Jitsu business, unless the client specifically asked for that. I think it's the combination of burnt sienna on a textured cream paper that gives that impression for me. Personal opinion though.
The bold font on the backside is a little hard to read. See how it's kinda hard to tell a 6 from an 8? I would try a different typeface where a 6 is obviously a 6, an 8 an 8, etc. (the j's and i's have the same problem too, and you have a lot of those right next to each other).
The email address gets lost too, I'd also make that easier to read.
Otherwise, I really like where you're going with this. I think you can defnintely work with what you got.
I like the layout.
You've done a nice job.
I just want to ask:
1- Why vertical layout - why not horizontal?
(I like both, I'm just trying to get your thought process).
2- the email gets a little lost within all the other information, but that may be your intention.
3- I like your picture, but I agree, I'd love to see it on a plain background. I think that would really change the look and feel, or at least see.
4- Physical address? What if prospective students wanted to check out the place?
Overall, I think you've done a great job, and by no means am I an expert. ;) I'm just trying to give you a different perspective - or from someone - who might receive the card.
I'd love to hear others' feedback as well.
:)
1 - To be different I guess... I have no good answer for this one lol. I have the front horizontal on most of the cards and vertical on all the backs.
2 - I made it a little bigger on the new cards. It's not too hard to read when it is printed but then again it's not too easy to read either.
3 - Lemme try that out
4 - This cards are more intended to drive the people to the website or get them on the phone to sell them like that. I was told that I could leave the address off by the owner so it's on him. I don't mind either way. I could put it in to fill in some dead space though
The whole card feels a bit formal for a Judo/Jiu-Jitsu business, unless the client specifically asked for that. I think it's the combination of burnt sienna on a textured cream paper that gives that impression for me. Personal opinion though.
The bold font on the backside is a little hard to read. See how it's kinda hard to tell a 6 from an 8? I would try a different typeface where a 6 is obviously a 6, an 8 an 8, etc. (the j's and i's have the same problem too, and you have a lot of those right next to each other).
The email address gets lost too, I'd also make that easier to read.
Otherwise, I really like where you're going with this. I think you can defnintely work with what you got.
I understand the strangeness of the formal nature but I picked out that to really contrast the business itself. Alot of people tend to think of brutes and knuckleheads when it comes to MMA and Jiu-Jitsu and the martial arts offered here but I wanted to show that the vast majority of students and instructors are all classy successful professionals. Can't say I'm right in my decision but it was just a judgement call for me :)
Alright I have this now, basically some ideas to ponder
Lemme cook something up and post it right quick
http://iloveleglocks.com/memphisbjj/memphisbjjcard073109differentoptions.jpg
Here we go, using some of the suggestions and a couple of ideas of my own... I think :)
CkretAjint
08-01-2009, 10:58 AM
On the back of the horizontal cards (1, 3 and 4) the logo is not vertically centered.
eugenetyson
08-01-2009, 11:10 AM
The colours in Number 2 are lovely. But the text is a bit hard to read. Number 1 is the better one.
The one with the image in the background isn't that great. People are going to know what judo and jujitsu and mixed martial arts is. It would be fine for a flyer or something.
BeautyNut
08-01-2009, 12:27 PM
1 - To be different I guess... I have no good answer for this one lol. I have the front horizontal on most of the cards and vertical on all the backs.
2 - I made it a little bigger on the new cards. It's not too hard to read when it is printed but then again it's not too easy to read either.
3 - Lemme try that out
4 - This cards are more intended to drive the people to the website or get them on the phone to sell them like that. I was told that I could leave the address off by the owner so it's on him. I don't mind either way. I could put it in to fill in some dead space though
1- I'd used vertical myself for a couple of 'school project' cards, and I like vertical myself. ;)
4- Ok, well, if that is the intention- no problem. However, if you are worried about 'free space' that could always be an option for a filler.
CkretAjint,
On the back of the horizontal cards (1, 3 and 4) the logo is not vertically centered.
Please explain?
How do you know (or not know) if it's vertically centered
eugenetyson
The one with the image in the background isn't that great. People are going to know what judo and jujitsu and mixed martial arts is. It would be fine for a flyer or something.
True.
So far, I like the colors for 1. Good job. :)
CkretAjint
08-01-2009, 12:33 PM
Beauty, just look at it. There is more space on the bottom than on the top. :p
BeautyNut
08-01-2009, 12:36 PM
Ok, Ok, It's early! ;)
Duh! I was looking at the left/right sides - not top/bottom.
Gosh, you have a great eye.
I would have completely missed it. :o
You're good!
Beauty, just look at it. There is more space on the bottom than on the top. :p
Yeah I didn't mean for it to be completely centered.
Why? I don't know... I did it completely centered and then wanted it off center vertically for some reason. I think it had to do with the first batch of cards I had printed up I was trying to show someone's face and it was just easier to raise the logo.
urstwile
08-01-2009, 07:55 PM
The problem is that it's not off-centered enough to make it look intentional.
mlmcasual
08-01-2009, 08:04 PM
The problem is that it's not off-centered enough to make it look intentional. Everything that is done intended to add identifiable contrast and break outside should be done by exaggerated amounts or else it will not achieve contrast rather look like a mistake.. That is one of the best mantras I have been learning ..
Grfk Dzgn
08-01-2009, 08:58 PM
http://www.graphicdeclaration.com/images/GDF_boggledeyes.jpg
The abstract head done in black looks like club members had one throw to many across the mat.
Use different weights of the same typeface throughout provides continuity of message. And trying to understand a logo while the eye is being forced through type confuses both the type and the logo - and hurts the eye in the bargain.
The diagonal pattern using the word Memphis clashes with the text vertical/horizontal format. And it seems that the front and the back are two completely different cards.
Perhaps you should start over.
eugenetyson
08-01-2009, 09:29 PM
I don't think they need to start over.
The logo is good. It plays on the ying yang symbol. And the people add motion and wrestle motion to the logo. I don't think the logo is bad. I like the logo.
I agree the text is too interfering though. That's why I wanted to see it without the image in the background, it was a bit too much.
Now that I see the logo and text without a photo, it seems a bit overcrowded still.
So perhaps move the logo up and the text down or something.
It's not a bad card though. I like it overall.
CkretAjint
08-02-2009, 01:43 AM
Gosh, you have a great eye.
I would have completely missed it. :o
You're good!
I was a production artist for 5 years. That's the kind of things they paid me to find and fix.... The eye has been trained! ;)
BeautyNut
08-02-2009, 01:47 AM
LOL, and trained well. ;)
I will be more observant in the future-or-at least try to be. ;)
I need to pay attention to alignment with my designs.
shmoo
08-02-2009, 02:24 AM
Please explain?
How do you know (or not know) if it's vertically centered
There are buttons in InDesign that will automatically centre the selected image/text box horizontally or vertically within the document.
Hey guys
I worked on it a little more taking queues from some
http://iloveleglocks.com/memphisbjj/memphisbjjcard073109differentoptions2.jpg
I didn't start over yet lol but that might not be a bad option either.
BeautyNut
08-02-2009, 03:41 AM
Good job.
I love the black and white colors for logo/design.
My only suggestion, which is an opinion like everyone else's : ;)
Maybe move the .com line right underneath the address (TN line) [same space as others] and then the email address-exactly the way you have it.
This would group the web info together instead of the email being placed above, and then your "It's only a hobby" will be by itself.
Again, just my suggestion, and you may have it just the way you want it. ;)
And, I'm no expert, so...
You've done an excellent job!
BeautyNut
08-02-2009, 03:44 AM
shmoo,
There are buttons in InDesign that will automatically centre the selected image/text box horizontally or vertically within the document.
Where are the buttons located exactly?
Thank you!
The all white front is very nice, although still not centred. However - your front is landscape and reverse portrait. Generally they should be one or the other not both. And as said before the styles of front and back don't match. Not even close. Unity is very important. And the "it's only..." tagline at the bottom strays too close to the edge. Align it with everything else.
BN, align should be amongst the pallets that run down the right of your screen.
The all white front is very nice, although still not centred. However - your front is landscape and reverse portrait. Generally they should be one or the other not both. And as said before the styles of front and back don't match. Not even close. Unity is very important. And the "it's only..." tagline at the bottom strays too close to the edge. Align it with everything else.
BN, align should be amongst the pallets that run down the right of your screen.
Ah the all white one should be centered.. I double and triple checked. Hrm
Ill work on it more... thanks so far
JSMartin
08-02-2009, 08:42 AM
Your site says you do MMA, I did some recently and physically I couldn't move for days. It's hard stuff..
And I like the white logo alone over the black and white logo, I don't think the black suits the background colour very well, at all.
It might technicaly be centred but the slightly descending part of the Js throw it out ever so slightly. Try the alignment using the baseline of the name rather than the very bottom point. It's probably only a matter of a mm or two but makes all the difference.
It might technicaly be centred but the slightly descending part of the Js throw it out ever so slightly. Try the alignment using the baseline of the name rather than the very bottom point. It's probably only a matter of a mm or two but makes all the difference.
Oh awesome thank you for clarifying on that. I see now what you are talking about.
Your site says you do MMA, I did some recently and physically I couldn't move for days. It's hard stuff..
If it was easy everyone would be doing it :) I don't fight anymore, I used to several years ago in small shows nothing remotely big but now I just train people that have aspirations to be more than I ever would have been :)
I do jiu-jitsu most of the time, that is where my passion is
http://iloveleglocks.com/memphisbjj/memphisbjjcard080409differentoptions.jpg
Still trying guys, either of those two fronts work?
And I tried to heed some advice about the back too.
Am I still striking out?
JSMartin
08-04-2009, 09:37 AM
If it was easy everyone would be doing it :) I don't fight anymore, I used to several years ago in small shows nothing remotely big but now I just train people that have aspirations to be more than I ever would have been :)
I do jiu-jitsu most of the time, that is where my passion is
I think I had it harder because I am 16 and a skinny ectomorph, and considering everyone in the training Gym was 25-30 and pretty well built, it was quite a challenge sparring with them :)
And on your new designs, I like the first cover, like the vertical one with the 'memphis' in lowered opacity, as if it doesn't have that it looks a bit empty (as is the case with the middle design)
On the back of it (sorry if it has been asked/answered) why do you put the '.com' in a smaller print, is there a specific reason for that?
I think I had it harder because I am 16 and a skinny ectomorph, and considering everyone in the training Gym was 25-30 and pretty well built, it was quite a challenge sparring with them :)
And on your new designs, I like the first cover, like the vertical one with the 'memphis' in lowered opacity, as if it doesn't have that it looks a bit empty (as is the case with the middle design)
On the back of it (sorry if it has been asked/answered) why do you put the '.com' in a smaller print, is there a specific reason for that?
hehe I would have given anything to start when I was 16... I wasn't too far off at 19 but those extra 3 years would have made a lot of difference. You should try to stick with it even in a hobby capacity :) We have a 16 year old doing the adult classes now and he is picking it up like a sponge. Very impressive.
As for the card I didn't know if anyone would dig the little memphi (memphis plural heh) in the background on the front (or the back for that matter) but I figured why not.
And the website I did like that on another printed 4x6 card advertising the school and it stuck I figured I would keep it the same even though it really doesn't have any purpose besides bolding out memphisbjj.
*shrug*
JSMartin
08-04-2009, 01:45 PM
hehe I would have given anything to start when I was 16... I wasn't too far off at 19 but those extra 3 years would have made a lot of difference. You should try to stick with it even in a hobby capacity :) We have a 16 year old doing the adult classes now and he is picking it up like a sponge. Very impressive.
As for the card I didn't know if anyone would dig the little memphi (memphis plural heh) in the background on the front (or the back for that matter) but I figured why not.
And the website I did like that on another printed 4x6 card advertising the school and it stuck I figured I would keep it the same even though it really doesn't have any purpose besides bolding out memphisbjj.
*shrug*
I would have loved to carry on but it was £50 signup fee, then a £25 a month cost for 4 lessons, which seemed a little extreme for 4 lessons. But I did learn the Rear Naked Choke and the Guillotene in that 2 hour session heh.
And I do like the Memphi(s) background as it gives more to the design, in my opinion.
Fair enough on the smaller .com aswell, it isnt unsightly or anything, just wondered the idea behind it.
I would have loved to carry on but it was £50 signup fee, then a £25 a month cost for 4 lessons, which seemed a little extreme for 4 lessons. But I did learn the Rear Naked Choke and the Guillotene in that 2 hour session heh.
And I do like the Memphi(s) background as it gives more to the design, in my opinion.
Fair enough on the smaller .com aswell, it isnt unsightly or anything, just wondered the idea behind it.
Wow that is pretty steep. Of course it varies greatly from gym to gym but I think at ours (I'm not the money man) it is like no signup fee and around 110 bucks a month (so £50 ish or so) and thats unlimited.
I know I lived in California for a little bit and it got up to around 110 - 125 for 7-9 classes a month. Which was kinda high. Some of the schools out there were like 275 a month for unlimited. Big moneys :)
I might go with the vertical little memphi(s)
I think I have narrowed it down to one of these two designs.
http://iloveleglocks.com/memphisbjj/memphisbjjcard080409jasonturnagefinal2.jpg
or
http://iloveleglocks.com/memphisbjj/memphisbjjcard080409jasonturnagefinal.jpg
I'll sit on it for a couple of days and fill in the other people's info who are getting cards where I can swap them pretty easy.
JSMartin
08-05-2009, 09:38 AM
I like the second one.
BeautyNut
08-05-2009, 11:44 AM
chia,
Great job!
I like the 2nd also- black writing.
:)
hah dang it I liked the first one
I still have to align the text a little better but then I'm probably done and should send them off by Friday.
Well I went up to the school tonight and then consensus winner (from them) was this...
http://iloveleglocks.com/memphisbjj/memphisbjjcard073109differentoptions3.jpg
*shrug*
Not my first choice (or 4th hehe) but there you go, whatever is going to make them happy. From the looks of it they are going to cycle out the other cards with the default front for this one after we get a test batch back to see if the colors and gradient is going to look cool.
BeautyNut
08-07-2009, 12:55 PM
:cool: Thanks for the update.
Besides, they are THE ONES that you have to ultimately please. :p
I think you've done a nice job, and you will know more after it has printed.
CkretAjint
08-07-2009, 01:24 PM
Glad to hear that they picked one. Be careful of the cutting on the cards with that border. :)
Glad to hear that they picked one. Be careful of the cutting on the cards with that border. :)
Yah I was worried about that on the first batch we sent to clubflyers (someone might have beef with them, but they were the best option for us to use imo) and I was biting my nails until they came in and turned out they worked good so I have used that first setup as basically the template for the rest. The border on the first 6 cards that got printed up looked good. They might have been slllllighty off but it would be hard to tell. I might try and put the words back on the logo for the sunburst card.
lol I'm just not crazy about that card at all... not even a little bit lmao
going to stink to have my name on it lol
andcreativity
08-07-2009, 04:56 PM
The front looks really good - the first one is better (with the black and white logo). I don't see any point to keeping it to 1 color.
The back is a bit too busy. Try reducing your font size a little and give things some breathing room. I understand what you're trying to do by pressing words together real tight, but it's a little too crammed together right now.
The front looks really good - the first one is better (with the black and white logo). I don't see any point to keeping it to 1 color.
The back is a bit too busy. Try reducing your font size a little and give things some breathing room. I understand what you're trying to do by pressing words together real tight, but it's a little too crammed together right now.
Thanks for this... I'm going to focus on the back a little bit... I kind of want to keep it uniform with the other cards already printed but I will try to reduce the size some without costing myself readability.
I should have come here before I got the first... second... sixth batches printed up
Oh well hind sight *sigh*
I guess Ill play around with the sun burst and logos some too
Worked on it a little more... getting closer to crunch time so probably have to just pick the best one soon.
http://iloveleglocks.com/memphisbjj/memphisbjjcard073109differentoptions3.jpg
Cool Gray 8
08-10-2009, 01:27 AM
This may have already been covered in this thread, so excuse me if I'm rehashing something, but I've got to say, with regards to the portrait side, I'm not a big fan of the name and website being split over 2 different fonts. I don't see any obvious rationale for this, and I don't think it adds to the design. I'd much prefer the first and surnames to be in the same font / weight. And the 'com' just looks strange to me.
digizan
08-10-2009, 06:03 AM
I realize I may be chiming in a bit late and I haven't read the whole thread, so I'll just critique the most recent iteration of your design.
The typography on the back just isn't working for me. Not so much because you've used different fonts, but because you've used them inconsistently and they don't really work well together. The bold font is narrow, squarish and has very short ascenders, whereas the lighter font (Futura?) is wide, round and has tall ascenders, causing them to poke up into the lines above them. It makes the typography look sloppy.
Re consistency between the two fonts: I understand that you're probably trying to create visual hierarchy with the different sizes, but why not use a consistent ratio? Let's say 2:1 for the sake of argument—i.e 24pt:12pt for "jason turnage" and 18pt:9pt (or whatever) for the rest. As you have it now, the words "instructor" and "coach" almost overpower the text above them because they're so wide (even though the letters themselves are much lighter in weight).
Drop the period after "TN" it as it's distracting and unnecessary. I'd also make the "TN 38134" just a bit smaller—like maybe 0.25pt or 0.5pt smaller. With most fonts, whenever you use all caps or a series of numbers together after regular (sentence or title case) text they tend to look oversized, even if they're exactly the same point size as the rest of the line.
Again, for consistency's sake I'd kill the lighter font for "com" after "memphisbjj."—use the same font for everything on the 1st line, even though there's no 2nd line.
You also need to work on your kerning on the lighter font.
IMO, the tagline/motto at the bottom of the card looks like an afterthought.
Last but not least, on both the front & back I'm worried about what's going to happen when the cards are trimmed as there is always some paper shift. If your printer is really good and the shift is minuscule you'll probably be okay, but if it's 1/16th of an inch or more everything is going to be thrown off balance. On the back it would make your borders appear uneven; on the front you're far too close to the edges on at least 3 sides, which puts every element near those edges in danger of losing its margin (or worse, being cut off).
I know some of that was pretty nit-picky, but attention to detail is important. I hope you don't feel too beat up—my tendency to give long, detailed crits is one of the reasons I don't often do them. :o
Digi
digizan
08-10-2009, 06:13 AM
http://iloveleglocks.com/memphisbjj/memphisbjjcard073109differentoptions3.jpg
Just a quick P.S.
I really like what you've done with the back of the card in the version that's second from the top with the simple gradient. The top one is okay too, but the logo is so busy that it needs a calm background. That, and the thing with the rays has become trendy & trite IMO.
Digi
I appreciate all the feedback on the back and I might have to suck it up on this and just keep the back with this overall feel because of the uniform look between this and the other cards that are already printed out. Only really wanted to change the front because the picture I used just wasn't relevant anymore. I am learning alot about my mistakes on the back though for sure and for that I am grateful.
Also the sunrays were in no way my choice or suggestion lol
digizan
08-10-2009, 02:14 PM
Oops, looks like I had the front & back confused a couple of times. :eek:
Yep, it's always good to get feedback, even if only for future reference.
Digi
Oops, looks like I had the front & back confused a couple of times. :eek:
Yep, it's always good to get feedback, even if only for future reference.
Digi
No doubt. It will help me clear up a lot of issues in the future for sure.