Poster in response to the word "social".

[13faces]

READ FIRST BEFORE LOOKING AT THE POSTER.

Hello first post so be nice,

So I am going to enter a competition that has been running for a year and every month they release a word for people to respond to. This one is Social.

Looking for some feedback on how it looks visually and you guys like the idea.

My response:

The word social means a huge amount of things. But for me it is says relationships you have with people, be it girlfriend, best friend, colleague etc. . .

With some research I started to looking at Philosophers that commented on Social behavior, one of which was a French guy named Jean Paul Sarte.

His philosophy was that to achieve self consciousness you have to prove (display) to the Other (people). So their is no you without other people.

He invisioned this philosophy in a play called No Exit. Where the he explains his theory in a form of a love triangle and how people are connected to the other people around them. How people can make you happy and sad.

Capitulating the whole idea in a famous quote:

L'enfer, c'est les autres, meaning Hell is other people.

So that if people are the hell, so is heaven . . .

In my poster I have used geometry to illustrate the idea. With one triangle turning into another. Developing a relationship the two as it passes though every version of a triangle (every form of relationship).

So going from a right angle, to an obtuse, to an scalene, to an isosceles, to an acute and then finishing on an equilateral.

The colour represent warm and cold relationships. (obviously)

Anyway, sorry about the rant.

Also should it be in english or french??? I will hopefully get this screen printed as some limited versions . . . .

Cheers, Vanya

[CkretAjint]

*looks before reading*

First, I saw it and didn't get it... at all.

Then I read the post.

Then I looked again. While I get the concept this time around, if you have to ask what it means it's probably not the best way to achieve the goal.

Just my 2 cents.

[13faces]

haha, not sure I understand your feedback?

[CkretAjint]

While I get the concept this time around, if you have to ask what it means it's probably not the best way to achieve the goal.


If you are not around to explain your poster, how can one understand it?

[Audentia]

I agree with Ckret. I need to "get" the poster without having to read 100 words about it.

[13faces]

the 100 words are just to explain my thought process, it is not a blurb.

The poster if firstly designed to be complex and changing. If the viewer is interested, or knows the Philosopher they would research it in their own time . . . To understand my thought process. . .

If they know the play, they will understand the reference to the quote.

In simple terms it is the "love triangle". . . if that helps at all.

But it is not a poster that you are meant to understand without being curious enough to research. Just like philosophy the subject matter that it comes from.

What would anyone suggest?

[eugenetyson]

This is for a competition?

Seriously abstract. I don't know who would get the reference to the play.

An obscure French quote from a 1944 play? Really.

What about what Social means to you and not to someone else?


Very obscure. I wouldn't have a clue to what the poster meant had I not researched it. And I wouldn't have bothered had I seen it displayed anywhere, except perhaps for the play "No Exit".


The poster makes sense abstractly, but subjectively it's just not working.


It could be that you're just being too clever about it, or that I'm a thicko.

Either way, I don't get the poster, I don't get the significance in relationship between the word Social and an obscure reference to a quote from a 1944 play.

[Craig B]

Even though there should be an explanation behind anything being well-designed, the end user should be able to understand it without it being explained at all.

I actually own Sartre's No Exit. I've read it multiple times. Now, I don't speak French, so I miss the meaning. However, if I did speak French, as you mentioned No Exit focuses more on the negative aspect of "social" ... hell being other people. And to me, the simple geometry does not communicate the resentment in the play between the 3 characters as they discover that they are all playing a role of torturer to the other two (mentally and emotionally, not so much physically.)

I think if you're focusing on Sartre's No exit then your design needs to reflect that darkness, despair and resentment.

[13faces]

interesting angle,

I was actually focusing on the change without change . . . if you like. So it is always a triangle which ever way you look at it. So actually digesting the idea a little.

So hell is people, so is heaven and anything in between.

But I do agree that I might have over looked it a tad and that it might be too intellectual to the average viewer.

The reason that I picked a quote from 1944 from a french philosopher is that people in general are a bit "thicko" and should take advantage of the great literature and great observations no matter when they were written or who by . . .

In any case it is my first stab so any direction/advice would be interesting to hear.

Also imagine this poster at A2 where you can really appreciate the fine level of detail

[seamas]

To me this really looks like you are trying to shoehorn a design into a meaning as opposed to relate meaning through design.

Unless each viewer has a brief so as to uncode your particular visual language they will just see what amounts to some transform and blend.

[13faces]

To me this really looks like you are trying to shoehorn a design into a meaning as opposed to relate meaning through design.

Unless each viewer has a brief so as to uncode your particular visual language they will just see what amounts to some transform and blend.


Quite an accusation. It actually exactly the opposite.

I think its a case of trying to hard . . . wanting to stay away from a cliche.

Thanks a lot for all the advice, I will get back to the drawing board and see if it takes me anywhere new.

But I still love the quote and how it relates to the word social.

Any suggestions welcome.

[seamas]

Quite an accusation. It actually exactly the opposite.

I think its a case of trying to hard . . . wanting to stay away from a cliche.

Thanks a lot for all the advice, I will get back to the drawing board and see if it takes me anywhere new.

But I still love the quote and how it relates to the word social.

Any suggestions welcome.

It wasn't an accusation, it was how it looked to me (and I stated it as such). You asked for a critique, and I did no more and no less than give an honest critique.

As for avoiding cliché, the overall design it really reminicient of certain projects done in both 2D and 3D design classes and book illustrations of the mid '60s (not to mention Naum Gabo sculptures). Not necessarily cliché, but dangerously close.

The quote is indeed a good one.

[13faces]

It cool. I am not tacking this personally. I think all the advice here has been perfectibility valid.

By cliche I meant in concept. As for the reference to the design in the 60's. To be honest I have done no research at all. Just reacted to the word social then to the quote and referencing geometry "the triangle".

No idea what the boys in the 60's where referencing . . . do you know??? Would be cool to know.

Cheers again :)

[mlmcasual]

13faces,
It seems you are trying to create (or have for all intent purposes) created an art rendenering of your own personal attachement to a word. The key word here is art. This is peronal abstract art which is as far from Graphic Design as you can get. The majority of the people here create Graphic Deisigns for the intent of effective and efficient communcation to others. I think you will find that is the founding basis with which which all designs here are critiqued upon. That said, the comentary here and your defense will be talking past one another as they are apples and oranges. If your intent is to make a personal art piece you have successfully done that. That is subjective critiqing that is difficult. If your intent is to communicate an idea to others It is a concept that is doomed to fail from the start. So as an art piece, it's probably a success. As a graphic design to communicate it fails at the conceptual level.

IMO.

[13faces]

13faces,
It seems you are trying to create (or have for all intent purposes) created an art rendenering of your own personal attachement to a word. The key word here is art. This is peronal abstract art which is as far from Graphic Design as you can get. The majority of the people here create Graphic Deisigns for the intent of effective and efficient communcation to others. I think you will find that is the founding basis with which which all designs here are critiqued upon. That said, the comentary here and your defense will be talking past one another as they are apples and oranges. If your intent is to make a personal art piece you have successfully done that. That is subjective critiqing that is difficult. If your intent is to communicate an idea to others It is a concept that is doomed to fail from the start. So as an art piece, it's probably a success. As a graphic design to communicate it fails at the conceptual level.IMO.

Very good point. By trade I am a designer but my intent was to stay way from communicating anything, specially literally.

Also agree about the level of crits from designers.

So my next question is, would this be appropriate for a poster competition that asks you to react to a word in any way?

And after considering it as an art piece rather than a communication tool, do people like it.?? The concept/composition?

Again Thank you.

[salsa]

I like your poster. I took it as a fine art piece from the beginning given the assignment. Had you been creating this as an advertising piece for a business I would have agreed with the others though.

So my next question is, would this be appropriate for a poster competition that asks you to react to a word in any way?

You're reaction is your reaction. Nobody else can tell you how you feel about it. A competition like this is very subjective.

Sorry I don't have much of a critique to give you. When it comes to fine art, you can ask a dozen people what they think and you'll get a dozen different answers. If you like it and it reflects how you feel, then I think you've succeeded.

[CMYK girl]

Very good point. By trade I am a designer but my intent was to stay way from communicating anything, specially literally.

Also agree about the level of crits from designers.

So my next question is, would this be appropriate for a poster competition that asks you to react to a word in any way?

And after considering it as an art piece rather than a communication tool, do people like it.?? The concept/composition?

Again Thank you.


This design is very dated and has been used hundreds of times. As a designer you should know the design trends of not only the '60's but the history of modern advertising. Are you in college?

And yes, your design has to stand on it's own without any explanation. An instructor of mine taught us that if you have to explain or apologize your work has failed.

One other point, we don't usually like to enter contests main reason being the art becomes their property and we are not compensated. The contest holder ends up with a slew of art for not much money to use as they want whenever they want.

[13faces]

This design is very dated and has been used hundreds of times. As a designer you should know the design trends of not only the '60's but the history of modern advertising. Are you in college?

And yes, your design has to stand on it's own without any explanation. An instructor of mine taught us that if you have to explain or apologize your work has failed.

One other point, we don't usually like to enter contests main reason being the art becomes their property and we are not compensated. The contest holder ends up with a slew of art for not much money to use as they want whenever they want.

True, but you cant know all history . . . .

My design is not based on any historic movement or any design, it has its own roots. So if it reflects any then spot on.

A saying comes to mind . . . great minds . . . etc.

This day and age everything is recycling and gaining popularity simply because of the saturation of different designs that people cant keep track of.

But I do understand that I have to make it my own and I have a few ideas on how that can be achived.

As for the communication, I guess my only agrument is that as an art peice it needs to be explored by the viewer there for reading the concept.

So it is an art poster.

and as for your instructor, well im not sure his philosophy is universal. The problem being is that people think of right or wrong(fail). It is weather it is apropriate or not?

So for a compertition that asks only for an intelectual reaction . . . then it is ok? Maybe?

And where do people stand on the whole graphic design/art boarder?? Are we just communicating tools or have we developed an art that has a certain graphic approach/style??

Cheers, Vanya

[SurfPark]

This isn't much of a critique. You're defending yourself in every post. The bottom line is this. You have people that have no familiarity with your subject matter, and they don't understand what it means. You have someone here that knows the subject matter and he's saying the focus isn't clear enough. This is more art than design. Here is why:

1. The meaning is not defined. Everyone that has taken a guess has been wrong. Its too interpretive. A good design leads little to be interpreted. The message is clear and all aspects of the design tell the same story. Your type and your drawing don't relate at all. "Other people are hell" is the phrase, right? I don't see people, hell, heaven, or philosophy in that design. Heaven/hell, life/death, self/others all imply stark contrasts, yet, your design flows very smoothly with a gradient. Hell is pastel blue & orange? I understand that you might be saying its all connected, but its way too subtle. Spell out the contrast for us.

2. CMYK Girl is right. This design is dated. Search for "Ben Laposky (http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/cms/?pid=1000468)". He was one of the first artists to create art using a computer. This looks like something very technical. Also, thoughts of a spirograph (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirograph) toy or laser light show are not lost on me. Your work brings up these associations and you need a better reason than "not based on any historic movement" to defend your position. These samples are highly technical and carry an implication as to your intent. If its not based on it, then its unintentionally "borrowing" too much.

3. Should it be in English or French? Well let's see... making this piece easier to understand, on even a basic level, should be your top priority. I imagine you won't be able to give an explanation to the judges of the competition. Unless they all speak French, keep it in English.

[13faces]

Hello, and I really do appreciate all of the feedback.

Ok to point 1. The correct translation is "Hell is other people". I wanted to keep it in french becasue it is a tribute to his observations on social behaviour. So just staying true to his roots.

But for the sace of the audience I could translate it. I actually think it sounds better in english.

As for the "literal" interpritations it is exactly what I wanted to stay clear of.

I am not promoting his play where the quote is from. I am interprating the phisphilosophy. The quote just underpins the thought and incidently appeared in a play rather than an academic paper.

The whole point being that it hasnt got a contrast, it is all one . . .

to repeat my self, if hell is people so is heaven there for they actually do not exist they are just part of the developing relationships that surround you. And without them there isnt even a you . . . ???

At the end this is philosophy which is also a fine art and can be interpreted in many ways.

So just to get people talking about the fact that the quote means different things to them thefore is a wrong interpretation is more than I could hope for????

Maybe I am being nieve . . . but all points are fair and have made me think alot about the project.

to point 2. His work is an experiement with what then was a new technology. Mine is part of a concept that has finished visually very similar. I see no problem with that. One word can have a double meaning.

And my defence is that, it has come from a completly different thought process so it is different. . . .

to point 3. You are asked to provide a detailed explanation in this compertition.

Thanks a lot again, Vanya.

[Audentia]

Technically a direct translation to English of the quote is "Hell, it's others". Now it's become even more vague in my opinion.

Sorry but I agree with the others that it's just too vague.

[andcreativity]

meh. looks generic. If I flipped through any one of the design books I've got laying around I'd see the design. Doesn't seem all that creative to me. Trying real hard, but not getting there. Sorry.

[13faces]

meh. looks generic. If I flipped through any one of the design books I've got laying around I'd see the design. Doesn't seem all that creative to me. Trying real hard, but not getting there. Sorry.

constructive . . .

[andcreativity]

Just because it's not what you wanted to hear doesn't mean it's not constructive. If you want to work in design you need thick skin. If I walked into my creative director's office with this he'd look at me, not say a word and crumple it up and throw it at me. Welcome to design.

You're overthinking and underexecuting. It happens. Like someone else said, if you have to explain it, it's not working. Be clever, but not so clever no one gets it. Think of something new with your graphics. I really have seen this same kind of illustration hundreds of times. I think there's actually a script to create this sort of thing, yes?

[13faces]

Just because it's not what you wanted to hear doesn't mean it's not constructive. If you want to work in design you need thick skin. If I walked into my creative director's office with this he'd look at me, not say a word and crumple it up and throw it at me. Welcome to design.

You're overthinking and underexecuting. It happens. Like someone else said, if you have to explain it, it's not working. Be clever, but not so clever no one gets it. Think of something new with your graphics. I really have seen this same kind of illustration hundreds of times. I think there's actually a script to create this sort of thing, yes?

about the script, no idea . . .

But that was a little more constructive, anyway . . .

I am not defending an idea that I think is the best, I am not that arogant.

Might be hard to believe but I am a practicing designer, and have built my (very short, but very successful) career on conceptual thinking.

How an idea can start in one place and end up somewhere completely different and with a totaly different meaning. . . .

But this has been an excellent introduction to the forum and the advice has been second to none.

So (i know again) a big thank you.

[CMYK girl]

True, but you cant know all history . . . .
It is your job to know the history of advertising, if it's too hard, fail.

My design is not based on any historic movement or any design, it has its own roots. So if it reflects any then spot on.
You would have to have lived under a rock or be 12 years old not to be influenced by this design, it's everywhere.

A saying comes to mind . . . great minds . . . etc.
Or copies subconsciously, this is the reason you need to know advertising history.

This day and age everything is recycling and gaining popularity simply because of the saturation of different designs that people cant keep track of.
There is nothing new under the sun, just new ways of doing the same thing
But I do understand that I have to make it my own and I have a few ideas on how that can be achived.

As for the communication, I guess my only agrument is that as an art peice it needs to be explored by the viewer there for reading the concept.
So it is an art poster.
The design is too standard as pure art to care to explore it

and as for your instructor, well im not sure his philosophy is universal. The problem being is that people think of right or wrong(fail). It is weather it is apropriate or not?
(whether)
It is not appropriate to have to explain or excuse your work, it must stand on it's own.

So for a compertition that asks only for an intelectual reaction . . . then it is ok? Maybe?
The same result is that the contest owner ends up with all the art and does what he wishes with it.

And where do people stand on the whole graphic design/art boarder?? Are we just communicating tools or have we developed an art that has a certain graphic approach/style??
We are in advertising making a design that sells a product, it is not clear what you do. Art for art's sake is not our goal. Yes we do make the product look as good as we can but selling is the bottom line.

Cheers, Vanya

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

[garricks]

Folks, this is getting a bit harsh. We're all on the same side, aren't we? The whole point of this forum is to help one another, isn't it? As my mother says, "It's not what you say, it's how you say it." Let's try saying it with a little less acid, OK?

[lilubird]

I don't get it.


and I'm your audience.

[SurfPark]

I'm quitting this thread. The person doesn't really want a critique. I've seen other threads where the critiques are a thought process and the person addresses the issues brought up. This is a finished piece and the maker wants to debate meaning more than re-work the design. Discussion over.

[13faces]

CMYK girl (http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/member.php?u=26642) (sales person of the year goes to)

PLEASE STOP CALLING IT ADVERTISING . . .

nothing for sale here . . . (fail?) hehehe

As to the actual crit, there is nothing wrong trying to get your idea across because it helps the other people crit in more detail and this has been a very good structured crit.

I am actually going to rework this, and it is thanks to this forum.
But I dont have to agree with every point also.

Huge thanks to everyone, and I agree. Stop getting so angry about it.

Thank you for your time taken to read and think about it and even in some cases research the subject.

I am very much looking forward to my next post and "meeting" you all again there.

(once more for luck) CHEERS!!!

[Audentia]

I'd be interested in seeing your rework. If you're comfortable I'd like to encourage you to post it up here when you've got it ready.

[CkretAjint]

No one's getting angry, we are all just tying to help you out. :)