Doing paid Graphic Design work for friends.

[Cactus_Lump]

Time for a moan.

I'm building a website for a client who also doubles up as a "friend". Although for how much longer, I don't know...

We started discussions in January. I made a start on the website in February. About halfway through, I emailed the client with a request for the text that is going in the "About Us" section of the website. It's just a few lines of text. Nothing too grand.

It took him 5 months to get round to getting this info to me, along with an apology saying he's been busy.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt and picked up where I'd left off all those months ago. He is a friend after all.

Been working on his site again this past couple of weeks. But he's up to his old tricks again. Not replying to me when I need things. Taking a week to reply to me when I ask him for feedback on what I'm doing so far. This is turning into an absolute nightmare.

I am seriously going to explode. But as I said, he is an old friend of mine. But honestly, he's taking the absolute piss and I'm ready to give him a piece of my mind.

I was wondering if anyone else has had similar problems doing paid work for friends.

I'm pretty new to the graphic design freelance game, so I don't really know how to handle this.

cheers

[Audentia]

Do you have a contract for this job?
And does said contract indicate that you only get paid at the end of your time, or that you will invoice for hours billed each say 3-6 months or something?
That way you don't feel like you're doing work for years with no compensation?

I have found that while friends are always the people who want to give you work, they rarely want to do it in a way that is professional. Sucky, but true.
I think it's important that you think of them as a client for the time being and treat them as you would a client who does that to you.

[PrintDriver]

How much does he want the site? If he isn't pissy about you not getting it done, why be mad at him for not getting you the stuff?

[Broacher]

http://new.wavlist.com/movies/314/lis-warning.wav

Listen to the robot, Will.

[Cactus_Lump]

...why be mad at him for not getting you the stuff?

Because all this stop-starting is playing havoc with me. Both mentally and artistically. (Sorry, that sounds a bit pretentious, but you know what I mean.)

Each time there's a long gap in between, It takes me a good while to find my bearings, figure out where I'd left off, what's been done, what needs doing..etc.

Also, it's proving disruptive in terms of other projects I'm supposed to be getting on with at the time.

Maybe it's just me, I don't know...

There was no contract, no agreement. (I'm stupid I know)

The only thing agreed was the total price. Which I have to say was way too cheap anyway. This is why I'm even more annoyed. I tried to do a favour, a good deed. And this is what happens. :rolleyes:

[Bladez]

I've done freelance work for friends, and I treat them as I would any other client. I draw up contracts, set deadlines and time lines, get my down payment up front, etc. If I send them a proof, and don't hear back after a few days, I'll email them again, telling them I need to them have a look, and let me know. Generally they've been really good at getting in touch with me after 1 reminder and we continue on with the job as planned.

Just because they're a friend, doesn't mean they should get any special treatment when it comes to work stuff. In fact, because they're a friend, you should be able to be a little more forceful with them, as they're more likely to forgive than a random client who has no other ties to you and may never need your services again after the job is done. I've told friends off before, and then a week later, we're out for beers laughing about the past. If I did that with a client, I'd never hear from them again, and never get work from them again.

[BJMRGTIVR6]

some family clients (paying clients) want something yesterday, only to not get back for a month and then need it NOW again. I used to get ticked but then thought if he wants something soon and right now, he has to cooperate too.

[JgS]

I find it helps to be more proactive with clients like that. Write some test yourself and add it to the site. It doesn't have to be good just something. A lot of times it helps get a client excited about their site if they can visualize it. Also if you can make it easer on the client by getting the ball rolling then it makes for a better relationship between you two.

[Audentia]

Because all this stop-starting is playing havoc with me. Both mentally and artistically. (Sorry, that sounds a bit pretentious, but you know what I mean.)

Each time there's a long gap in between, It takes me a good while to find my bearings, figure out where I'd left off, what's been done, what needs doing..etc.

Also, it's proving disruptive in terms of other projects I'm supposed to be getting on with at the time.

Maybe it's just me, I don't know...

There was no contract, no agreement. (I'm stupid I know)

The only thing agreed was the total price. Which I have to say was way too cheap anyway. This is why I'm even more annoyed. I tried to do a favour, a good deed. And this is what happens. :rolleyes:

Maybe you need to try sending him a bill for say 1/3 or 1/2 of the amount agreed upon for "work to date". Paying for something might get the ball rolling and will allow for you to not feel like you've been dealing with him for almost a year and not getting paid.

Other option, let him know that you would like to set some deadlines as it is hard for you to juggle all your other work and his when you're not sure what the timelines are?

The real question to me is, how good of a friend?
If it's a good friend then they should understand if you approach them. If it's not a good friend... then remember for next time to have a contract. ;)

[Cactus_Lump]

Just because they're a friend, doesn't mean they should get any special treatment when it comes to work stuff. In fact, because they're a friend, you should be able to be a little more forceful with them, as they're more likely to forgive than a random client who has no other ties to you and may never need your services again after the job is done. I've told friends off before, and then a week later, we're out for beers laughing about the past. If I did that with a client, I'd never hear from them again, and never get work from them again.

You live and learn I guess. Like I mentioned, I'm new to all this. I'm just not a confrontational person. I'm not good at being stern with people. But I guess I'll have to be.

I do think I'm gonna adopt a new policy when it comes to future clients though:

NO FAMILY OR FRIENDS.

It's more hassle than it's worth.

[holycow77]

If customers take forever to get back to me, I take forever to get back to them. It works for me, I've got plenty of other stuff to do.

[tZ]

Determine a cut-off date for the client to gather all necessary materials. Explain that additional content integration or functional changes after the cut-off date will be subject to charge.

[JMV Design]

You live and learn I guess. Like I mentioned, I'm new to all this. I'm just not a confrontational person. I'm not good at being stern with people. But I guess I'll have to be.

I do think I'm gonna adopt a new policy when it comes to future clients though:

NO FAMILY OR FRIENDS.

It's more hassle than it's worth.
If not properly setup, it absolutely can be, but it doesn't have to be.

As others have stated, treat them as you would any other client as far as terms, payment and contract go, and it shouldn't be an issue.

Let them know upfront that you'll be treating them the same as any other client, show them the terms and give them a chance to reconsider before going forward. It'll allow them to see that you mean business from the get-go and covers your butt in the long run.

Good Luck!

[Obsidian86]

I know how it feels, (kinda). I was designing a website for a friend of a friend, and he did the same thing. I would email him about site content and it would take him a week to get back to me- With the same excuse "I've been busy". He had paid (fedex'd) me a deposit, which I had already spent, And we had no contract.

I ended up just writing stuff, it didn't have to be good. Pretty much just filler text. I have a crude looking content management system that I programmed for the websites that I manage- that I changed allowing him to change all the images/text in his website. I made it look better and made it a little more user friendly. He's since said that he enjoyed it, the site is still up and he updates it regularly, which feels really rewarding to me as a designer :)

[rsalway]

I find myself non-confrontational at times too. I just have to remind myself that I am doing this to make money. I like the idea of sending a bill for a percentage of the agreed amount. If you think you are 50% done, charge 50%. I have also learned not to put clients like this on the priority list. Get to it in your down time.

Ryan

[theboyjwo]

I think the idea of setting up all the pages, then use a CMS and fill it all with dummy text. Then let your client go fill it in. Maybe he hasn't given you enough content to complete the template pages though.

In that case just ask for payment of services rendered so far, and tell him you wont' be able to schedule more work to be done until he provides you with 100% of the content.

[Drazan]

heh, it's not just friends who delay things.

I've had a couple clients who would take their time at getting me things. And somethings you just can't create yourself for sites.

However, for text on the website, many small businesses won't have any written down on what they do and where they came from, but they'll have that person who can tell you everything you need to know. In that case, I ask for an interview. I will have a questionnaire that has many common who, what, when, where, why questions that they can answer specifically for their business. I may also bring a voice recorder of some sort to make sure I get everything.

Then I'll take that information and write something for the website myself. This also works when creating new marketing for a business that has little or none to start with.

If they don't have photos or images, sometimes stock photography will work, but usually I just grab the camera and snap a few shots while at their place of business.

Most clients, in my experience, just want you to do all the work and they get what they want in the end. They didn't hire you so that you can tell them what they need to work on.

Jade

[djckrumsee]

I've been doing this for a long, long time. I never do paid work for family or friends, but I do actually do a lot of free work for them just getting a business started, needing a new brochure but strapped for cash, etc. I can't begin to tell you how well those unpaid hours have paid off in the long run. Everyone eventually needs something designed, right? And now there are so many out there that I did free, simple stuff for that pass my name around, I don't even have to look for work. I get phone calls from a friend of a friend all the time. That's where the money is...

[hunnydesigns]

It's really hard doing business with friends... my friend wants me to design her web site but takes forever to send me pictures so the mood was in earlier, when I asked for it, left sadly... for example... I need to be in a graphic mode in order to proceed with any layout and when I asked her for things .. mind you.... we were chatting online so I know she could have gotten it to me faster... she took about 3 days to deliver so now the inspiration/motivation has left... sighhhs... friends.