am i the only one that finds this completly appauling?

[D-Frag]

Nude juice bar survives legal battles

Associated Press
Feb. 2, 2005 12:22 PM

SALEM, S.D. - The mix of nude dancers, orange juice and black-and-white independent films wasn't in Bob Rieger's original business plan.

But it has helped his Racehorses Gentlemen's Club survive amid the cornfields of McCook County and fend off a two-year barrage of challenges from politicians and outraged members of Citizens Against Nude Juicebars and Pornography.

'I've been to court with them four times, and I beat them every time,' Rieger says.

When the county denied Rieger a liquor license for a bar, he opened a strip club with a juice bar in 2003. When it served a stop order saying a commercial business could not operate in area zoned for agriculture, Rieger went to court and won.

And when 74 percent of the county's voters passed an anti-nudity ordinance in June, Rieger found a loophole that exempted movie theaters. After a two-week hiatus, the club re-emerged as Racehorses Gentlemen's Club and Adult Movie Theatre and has been operating ever since.

Now the county is drawing up a new ordinance that would require his dancers to wear pasties and G-strings. And a state senator plans to push for a similar state law.

'At this point, it's harassment,' Rieger says. 'They're really picking on me.'

McCook County State's Attorney Roger Gerlach says the proposed ordinance is not an attempt to put him out of business: 'As long as they have some opaque clothing over the crucial parts of the human body, they can dance all they want.'

In the meantime, customers continue paying $10 cover - actually called an all-day movie ticket - to watch strippers dance. Patrons can sit next to the stage or get a private dance in a small room off to the side. They can also grab a stool at the juice bar and order a $3 soft drink or a $4 juice or power drink.

When Rieger retooled his business as a movie theater, he said he would feature independent, artsy R-rated films. During a recent visit, though, hardcore fare was playing in the club's 17-seat theater.

The 15-member Citizens Against Nude Juicebars and Pornography has organized protests outside the club and filmed patrons in the parking lot to discourage them from entering. Salem hair salon owner Maxine Pulse, the group's co-founder, says she saw men drinking and urinating in the parking lot and dancers coming to the door nude.

'There's a line between right and wrong,' Pulse says. 'And it seems like anymore nowadays that line has got all jumbled up.'

After Rieger seized on a loophole in the law that allows nudity in such places movie theaters, health clubs and college art classes, Pulse's group dropped its protests for fear of being hit with harassment charges.

Republican state Sen. Clarence Kooistra plans to take the fight to the next level and propose a state law that would Rieger's dancers to cover up.

'We do not want the Salem area and McCook County to be known as Sin City, South Dakota,' he says.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Has the whole country gone f'n nuts?? Seriously, this kind of right wing nazi shit has gotta stop. The group, which I find their name even more disturbing then the article 'Citizens Against Nude Juicebars and Pornography' I mean seriously, do they need hobbies in SD, because people that sit around and think this shit up need to be moved to some island.

This is like our Sheriff here, rounds up 45 prostitutes, cuz you know, they are the most evil people in the world and cause alot of crime. Sends all of them to prison, and then of course, all 45 get released because *gasp, big surprise* some of his deputies had sexual affairs with some of the women.

I just find it funny that this guy keeps finding loop holes in the law, and the 'law' (and i use that word loosely) keeps changing to keep him out of business. Im soooooo f'n disgusted at our legislature and our judicial system, this is the kind of stuff that makes me want to pack my bags and move to Europe or Canada.

Baaaaah, im in a shitty mood or something, lately all I see are religous people trying to infringe and take rights away from others. Maybe it was that 60 minute episode I saw where a black man got life in prison for selling cocaine, yet he saw multiple murderers and rapists come in and out of the prison while he was their. This whole country has lost its f'n mind.

end rant/// /emoticons/violent.gif

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[D-Frag]

oh yeah, and the fact that we can advertise 80yr old men getting hard ons, yet we see a 1/50th of a second of nipple and the whole country is up in arms....godammed we are f'd up, how come no one has bombed us yet?

see what you guys have to look forward to in my blogs /emoticons/freaked.gif

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[1984]

I think a lot of that has to do with people feeding their need for power and control...I mean these people are probably the same ones beating their wives or kids, having affairs like you mentioned, and who knows what else...Sometimes things like that almost seem like a jealousy type of thing...like you do it, I'm not supposed to, or my religion doesn't let me, so hey, I might as well take a stance against it.

Ordinary Life is Pretty Complex Stuff

[TBdesign]

Its beem like this for as long as I can remember. With your thing about the strip club, I have personally witnessed about 2 dozen of this same thing happening in various towns outside and around the suburbs.

One instance about 7 years ago a adult bookstore was closed down in this town with the county stating that it was to close to the school and anything portraying nudity or alchohol, tabacco etc. They said it had to be so far away from the school. Like a square mile or some crap. It was atleast 7 or 8 blocks away. (the square mile thing was a joke) But 40 yards from the schools front door was a bar restaraunt that served kids pizza everday for lunch,along with 3 other bars that were closer to the school than the bookstore was. He even went to court proved his case that it was discrimination, and still lost, and two days later a huge front page ad in the paper a new law was passed in the some 5 county area, banning strip clubs, adult bookstores etc. A COMPLETE JOKE.....and then alls you see on the TV is violence and Sex, murders, war etc....sad

I dont know how many things I have seen close down that right wing religous conservatives do not want around 'rotting our youth' when that is what they are doing. It goes back to my first day in kindergarten to me for how sad this country is. Our education system. HORRIBLE.. alll that you are taught in school now days is to shut up and listen, not have an opinion, thought, or anything out of the curicullum.

One thing I am proud of is all the protesting I have seen in this country the past 8 years or so about that goverment, and what kind of changes need to be done. We are a long way from it but its hard to fight the most crooked, disgusting, my religion not yours, not your way my way, commercialized, violence publicising, racist, (our country is extremley racist yet, no one wants to admit it but it is), super power

Maybe if Bush lets our troop sit in Iraq a little longer and get shot up and worry about the Middle East and other contires that he wants to steal from a little more everything will work out. (sarcasm) Cuz F-ing around with war and other countries is really gonna help the problems we have here.

Man I could go on for days and state, and show proof of more topics on the web but I am sick of typing already.


A few good tunes, that say F the goverment and are always good to hear when the goverment pisses you off.
www.anysonglyrics.com/lyrics/d/Descendents/Merican%20Lyrics.htm (http://www.anysonglyrics.com/lyrics/d/Descendents/Merican%20Lyrics.htm)
www.anysonglyrics.com/lyrics/n/nofx/franco-unamerican.htm (http://www.anysonglyrics.com/lyrics/n/nofx/franco-unamerican.htm)
www.lyricsfreak.com/p/pennywise/106506.html (http://www.lyricsfreak.com/p/pennywise/106506.html)
www.bobdylan.com/songs/masters.html (http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/masters.html) one of the greatest songs ever written.

go here and read about Justin Sane's thoughts on the goverment (not only the coolest name in the world a very smart man and very politically active to try and change the way things are)
www.anti-flag.com/main.php (http://www.anti-flag.com/main.php)

... Have no fear of perfection - You will never reach it ...

[TBdesign]

oh yah, and everyone go take a dump on a pair of nike's

... Have no fear of perfection - You will never reach it ...

[D-Frag]

yeah man, i got enough punk rock to make peoples heads spin, its about the only thing that keeps me sain, I also like alot of the Bad Religion stuff. ive read that anti-flag thing, and I read alot of 'Skratch' magazines, one of the things that I found wierd (and not trying to make this a political thread) is that out of the 100 or so bands they interviewed about who they would vote for 1 band said they would vote Bush (which I found wierd because Punk is all about rebellion) getting back to the point, that many bands with such heavy influence on peoples votes, spreading the word at every town they tour through, yet Bush still gets elected...... I just don't get it.

I took my mother out to dinner for her B-Day, and we had a 2 hour long chat on basically politics and the judicial system. She is a heavy supporter of above mentioned Sheriff, and supporter of Bush, it only took me 30 minutes to have her questioning her own actions and decisions. I talked with my grandmother, who didn't like Kerry, as she said his wife was haggard. I asked my g-ma if the majority of this world was this stupid, letting things sway their judgements and actions and not standing up for what they believe is right, or have been so clowded by BS that they can't see straight. She sadly said 'Yes, and the older you get the worse it gets' oh boy, what joy, I look forward to marching along side of my fellow numbnuts to try and get things changed here.

My mother was the worst, and I quote 'What do I care who wins the election, if they screw up I won't be around much longer to care' well geeee, first, thank you for spawning me into a world of disgust, secondly, thanks for watching out for me. She asks when she will get grandkids, I don't have the heart to tell her I wouldn't bring a child into this maniacle world if you paid me a million dollars.

I know life is what you make of it, and you can change your attitude and outlook on the world, but that gets so damn hard, when everything I look at makes me disgusted.

On that note, I think I need to move out of a HEAVILY influenced Republican state....these jackasses are literally killing me.

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[TBdesign]

Yah good point, though I dont think things would have been just great with Kerry either, it would have been much better than bush, much much better, but they are all still crokked as hell, still have the senate, house, the pentagon, etc. still F-ing things up. And Kerry wasn't the total answer, as many non-bush supporter tried to make it out to be.

We have not had a decent choice in elections in many many years, south park oput it the best it is alwasy between a douchbag and a ******* (or something like that I cant remember)

Oh forgot a good protest song
www.anti-flag.com/MU40.php (http://www.anti-flag.com/MU40.php) 'Protest Song'

One thing '(which I found wierd because Punk is all about rebellion)'
your way way off on that

and seriously everyone go take a dump on a pair of nike's

... Have no fear of perfection - You will never reach it ...

[MD]

What it comes down to is the right wing trying to legislate morality. Because it goes against their beliefs they believe that nobody should do it. This is a free country dammit. If I want to drink, smoke & ***** midget strippers while a 1 legged monkey dressed like a pirate watches It is my God given right to do so. It's about time that we all stand up for freedom and tell all of the uptight, whiney right wing Jesus freaks to shut the ***** up. It's time to stand up for our personal freedoms.

What we need to do as a country is find independent candidates that will actually do what is right and stand up for people and not corporations/special interest groups. We need to educate the electorate, if the public had any idea of the atrocities that the Bush administration has committed against our civil liberties there is no way that he would have won the election.......anyways it's not like Kerry would have been much better, just the lesser of 2 evils.

Viva La Revolucion

You know, there's like a butt-load of gangs on this forum. This one gang kept wanting me to join because I'm pretty good with a bo staff.

[TBdesign]

Oh one of the main things in this country that really tans my hide...parts of the constitution that this country is supposed to be based on and how we live
For one Our so called 'freedom of speech', what a joke that is

Milwaukee right on about Kerry, I Hate it when I get someone telling me how much better it would have been if he was elected, yes granted it would be better than bush, much better but a mute, dislexic, blind, deaf, retarted penguin would have been better than bush
Maybe he can put some more restrictions on pot, kids trying to go to school and better themsevles with a record of pot are screwed, whats next alcohol offenses and no financial aid for you?

AND IN CALIFORNIA YOU CAN'T EVEN LIGHT UP A pancakeING SMOKE,
ALong with minneapolis where I am from, and st. paul passing a law that goes into effect in a few months that you cant smoke in restaraunts and bars anymore (a little better than california) BUT, I'll sit and try and kill my liver and kidneys, get wasted and go try to go home with some skank that is gonna give me a disease but no dont light up a CancerStick

... Have no fear of perfection - You will never reach it ...

[3howards]

hmmmm, i thought california was a blue state? blah, blah, blah ...

'Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.' -- Isaiah 5:20

[Debz]

Cali is a blue state.. as well as NY Where you cant smoke in Resturants/Bars.. pancakeIN DEMOCRATS!


lol!

plz.. no more sales.. :( plz!!!

krylliah.blogspot.com (http://krylliah.blogspot.com)

[MikeTheVike]

I haven't read anyone elses posts, but I bet the people who belong to this group are the wives of men who frequent it, LOL

[Drawing a Blank]

I wish I had more time to write, but I have to get back to work so I'll just say this. I can understand a moral objection to a strip club(personally I don't object, but I also don't go to strip clubs because I think they areboring), though I can also understand the right of the owner to run the establishment (I mean really why are we so uptight about nudity in this country). But now they are going after cartoon characters? I saw a story this morning that a coalition in, I believe it is Minissota (sorry if that fact is off), wants to ban Sponge Bob because he is gay. WHAT? Besides the fact that that shouldn't really matter, how is a cartoon gay? With no overt homosexual actions they want to say he is gay because of the way he acts. WHAT? Besides the fact thatthis is the small minded, ignorant, stereotyping that has caused so many problems we have todayit is just cencorship plain and simple and that is wrong (if I were a politician I would saywhat I'm sayingis unpatriotic, because in case you haven't noticed speaking your mind in this country has become a bad thing according to these people). To tie it all together this is all a bunch of people who want to force their radical religious views on the rest of the country (did the Taliban move here when we bombed them out of Afghanistan). If they were using violence to do that we would call them terrorist, but since they are just talking we call them right wing. It's all the same crap. Why doyou need me to believe in your 2000 year old book to be an American?






blah blah blah blah blah blah

[Drorain]

Limited democracy, we can limit ourselves if the majority so chooses it. Its a balance of the law...now I really dont know why you guys care...this is at the state and local level. Where it should be, I would complain if this was federal level, but it isnt. If a town or county decides not to have strip clubs or adult stores thats their issue. People can still jack off to the internet. You sound as if the Christian right is conspiring, no they are just trying to have some control over where they live. This isnt simply about morality, its about having the correct legislation that represents you in the government.

We elect our officials...we are happy if they represent our views. I am anti abortion right, but we still have it, each and everyday...am I on the ground twitching from it? NO

So as this newspaper is wrong to present this case with a slant towards 'OH the horrible republicans' I say we need to mind our own business and let them figure it out in their own county.

These things do not effect you in any way, shape, or form. Red states and blue states should be able to have there laws as they see fit. I live in one of the most libral areas of the country...Boston, I love it here, but I sure dont agree with the polotics.

Sorry Dfrag, I'm not trying to offend thru my opinions, I'm just try to offer a balance to the opinions expressed in this particular thread, and I will not post in it again as I can get out of hand on politics.

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[Debz]

I have to agree w/ D here!! :)

I personally wouldnt want a Strip club in the general area that I live in.. now a few miles away, i could deal. But seriously, yall dont know the situation.. yall dont live there. Some people are pure trash. Im not saying the people who go occasionally, but really think of the people who go to these things like everyday n crap. I dont want my kids around that crap. You dont live there you DONT know what its like..

Now i have to say each side.. left/right, blue/red.. all have a bunch of open mouthed freaks who start drama. All i have to say is.. What about the pancakeing thing about God shouldnt be in the pledge of allegiance.. You know what i have to say about that.. SUCK ME! i said that crap when i was a kid everyday and i know plenty of ppl who were anti-religion who said it. Thats the way it is.. GET OVER IT!! And that stupid crap about the big bang, eveloution and creationism in schools.. I learned whatever when i was a kid. I UNDERSTAND The fact that big bang was a theory.. wtf do you have to put disclaimers on crap. wtf do u have to act like a damn looney bin and ban crap and all this crap!!

So ya see. It isnt just us conservatives who are wackjobs.. its you liberals as well..

I just blame it on stupid people!!

and thats all ive got to say about that!

plz.. no more sales.. :( plz!!!

krylliah.blogspot.com (http://krylliah.blogspot.com)

[red raw]

are they hiring?

'I try to ensure my modesty covers up my obvious genius'

[defjoe]

if yo don't like them... don't go in them. if a place of busniess pays taxes and follows the rules, then let them be. I hate these nut ball religious types trying to tell me what to do. F off and go pray or something. You need a good **** in the ass!

I'm opposed to places where people get together and chant like mindless idiots... can I shut them down?

'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'
'I'm the damn designer, bitches!'

Check out my indie comic book!
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[Drorain]

some freedoms are gaurenteed in the constitution tho defjoe, freedom of religion is one. Freedom to booty call...that could be put on the books

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[defjoe]

Freedom of speech is also....

'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'
'I'm the damn designer, bitches!'

Check out my indie comic book!
www.assassinsguild.net/ (http://www.assassinsguild.net/)

[Drorain]

Lest we forget...that one is truly important

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[3howards]

man, i could go nuts on this post, but it's not my place. i am one of those poeple that liberals like to call 'religious and mindless'. i personally don't care. what i do care about is when these liberals try tell me what and how i should teach my kid. i was taught evolution in school, whether i believe in it or not is based on what i was taught at home, not a classroom.

now, i agree with drorain's earlier post, there are wackjobs on both sides ...

'Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.' -- Isaiah 5:20

[MoodsR4Cattle]

A lot of good points here. I don't believe it really matters what talking head is in office. They are just puppets anyway. Politics is all about who can tell the most convincing lies. The news is propaganda - slanted, half-truths presented as glorified entertainment. Every news cast should start with the disclaimer, 'This show is for entertainment purposes only'. I don't read the paper. I don't watch the news. It's a bummer that that poor guy with the juice bar has the Mothers of Cleansed Minds breathing down his neck, but he wouldn't be in business if he didn't have patrons. There is a lot of crap out there - a LOT. But if it doesn't directly impact your life, don't worry about it
... IMHO.

Moods

[Drorain]

hey 3howards your girls beautiful, Love the avatar...

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[Kool]

Debz said...
I have to agree w/ D here!! :)

I personally wouldnt want a Strip club in the general area that I live in.. now a few miles away, i could deal. But seriously, yall dont know the situation.. yall dont live there. Some people are pure trash. Im not saying the people who go occasionally, but really think of the people who go to these things like everyday n crap. I dont want my kids around that shit. You dont live there you DONT know what its like..

Now i have to say each side.. left/right, blue/red.. all have a bunch of open mouthed freaks who start drama. All i have to say is.. What about the ****ing thing about God shouldnt be in the pledge of allegiance.. You know what i have to say about that.. SUCK ME! i said that shit when i was a kid everyday and i know plenty of ppl who were anti-religion who said it. Thats the way it is.. GET OVER IT!! And that stupid crap about the big bang, eveloution and creationism in schools.. I learned whatever when i was a kid. I UNDERSTAND The fact that big bang was a theory.. wtf do you have to put disclaimers on shit. wtf do u have to act like a damn looney bin and ban shit and all this crap!!

So ya see. It isnt just us conservatives who are wackjobs.. its you liberals as well..

I just blame it on stupid people!!

and thats all ive got to say about that!


Debz, I'm trying to figure out what this profanity laced posts point is but I'm not sure. One thing I am curious abut is if you are so right wing conservative how do you justify your own actions. When you first joined you were living in a one room apartment with a man you were not married to. I'm assuming one of you didn't sleep on the floor so isn't this sinful? And you head off for weekend trysts with your new boyfriend regularly. Won't you burn in hell for eternity for this according to your beliefs? I'm not judging you myself. I don't believe any of this. The people who you have aligned yourself do though. What about all the good stuff in the bible, love your neighbor and what not. How does your desire you once posted to smash into the back of a car that had a Kerry bumper sticker fit into this?

Where am I going and why am I in this handbasket?

[Jason Fraker]

I'm gonna have to weigh in with the right wing nutjobs. This is legislated on a state and local level. If I read this correctly, the county's population voted the whole strip joint thing down. It probably should have ended there. Actually, it should have ended with the zoning restrictions. The story didn't make me hate republicans or conservatives, it made me mad at lawyers. The only reason this guy made it as far as he has is because of some slick, used car salesman of a lawyer finding 100 year old loop holes in the lawbook and twisting the guy's business to fit into them. The guy gets around no nudity by adding a movie theater to his place? C'mon. There are still naked women dancing which, where I come from, constitutes a strip club. The guy should just move to an area that likes strip clubs more. What about the citizens' right to not have strip clubs in their county when they vote resoundingly against it.

Democrats whine because Bush only won by 1%, but this guy lost by nearly 75% and you say its unfair to him.

A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth can even put on its shoes.
-Mark Twain

[Drorain]

Kool I think your mistaken, I believe Debz isn of the christian right, but more of a libertarian.

In response to love your neighbor, that needs to be done as a personal charity, given freely, hence our free will, it shouldnt be done thru gov't redistribution of wealth to illegal aliens, people who dont work for the heck of it, or people trying to beat the system.

I always love the construction worker that worked under the table and got food stamps to buy his steak, good use of the 25% of my income they take from me every week

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[defjoe]

Hooray Kool!

'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'
'I'm the damn designer, bitches!'

Check out my indie comic book!
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[Drorain]

wow this convo has been pretty tame...I like it!

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[defjoe]

Yeah that bugs me too Drorian (welfare)

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Check out my indie comic book!
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[Debz]

No because i don't believe in that stuff. I actually have a completely different belief then that. I never said i completely agree with all the 'right wing' ppl. It just seems that more of what i believe lays in the right catagory.

I am not religious, i am not pro-life, Im actually very stuck up, all about me. I tend to try and help people as much as possible, I believe very much that sundays spent praying could be used for better use, like helping people (i say it but i dont really pratice that, a fault on myself). The only reason i go on these weekend things is because i cant chill with him here ;) he lives 1200 miles away, so it has to be a weekend thing. But i am sure that if he lived here i'd be at his place all the time, id probibly have a network at his house by now with my pc, and i would be there all the time.

I understand that you are saying that i dont fit the typical 'standards' of a republican. But looking at the views, i seem to have strong belifs that they do also.

when you say the crashing into the back of a car w/ the kerry sticker it sounds SO bad.. LMAO!

and i can see where you would shocked that i would associate myself with the more religious group.. hehe im not exactly a saint :) but im a strong believer in behind closed doors. act a certain way in public. I by no means run around naked at parties (ok i did when i was 15), but when i was with my last bf he was involved in a very.. wild crowd for my taste. Got drunk, girls would be like all naked around etc etc. Not what i did, but I never said hey.. go put ur clothes on. I represented myself how I would want to be thought of, and let everyone else do what they wanted. But I would never bring my kids, if i had any, around these people. I just kinda go with the flow. I have my standards and specific's on what I would like out of my life.

I could talk forever about what i believe in.. but yes.. im not a saint, and im not a religious type :)

plz.. no more sales.. :( plz!!!

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[Magnus]

What gets me is the people here that are opposed to "strip clubs", are COMPLETELY failing to take into account the other types of business listed in that article which are legally allowed to show nudity. Health Clubs, Theatres, and what was it, art schools?

Ohhh...but look out! That woman is shaking her boobies in a lewd and sexual manner! Wanna know something? There is a lot less unwanted sexual conduct going on in a strip club than there is in a Health Club/Gym. Know why? Because in strip clubs there's a 6' 4" 250 lb bouncer that will quite literally throw you through a window if you so much as think about breaking any of the clubs rules, and that includes NO touching.

Certain ****ing religous groups are so against nudity it sickens me. Take it a step farther back and read up on how much renaissance and ancient art was literally DESTROYED because the catholic church couldn't handle looking at pee-pee's and vaginas. What, does the pope blind fold himself when he takes a piss?

What I find really funny, is that in most strip clubs they serve alcohol, an ingrediant certain to increase the likely hood for trouble. Yet here is a Gentleman's club, serving juice. WHOAH! Look out! I'm buzzed off my mango-raspberry punch! Most places that I've seen (In Canada no less, but frequented by people from Buffalo, NY) aren't shoddy at all. They're well kept because believe it or not, the business owners want the highest amount of money they can make off their clubs. If they're run down or out of control with crime of any kind, who's going to come.

Some of you say you don't want to be in a neighbourhood with a strip club. You don't want your kids "seeing" that. Seeing what? A naked person? Turn on your ****ing TV's. Hop on the internet. At least in a Strip club it takes more effort to go there than flipping on your computer or satellite/cable. So what if there's a club there...does a perpetual storm hang over it? Does all the vegetation in the area die, and the undead walk the earth after the sun sets?

Thank fate I live in Canada. For a country of 250 million + you Americans sure have some stupid ****ing morons.

EDIT - what beguiles me the most is that it seems to be a double standard. Certain things are legislated, others run rampant. Pick a side and get on it, otherwise shut your ****ing mouth, and as defjoe said, relax your anus or have it reamed a la pulp fiction style.




Know this: Spammers, Flammers and Trolls will be shown no mercy and given no quarter. They will be pursued to the ends of the earth and executed Mod-style.

- Magnus

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/TlantMagnus/Trollkills.jpg

Post Edited (Magnus) : 2/3/2005 4:34:42 PM GMT

[3howards]

look, there are different dimensions to republicans then most liberals like to think. there's the religious conservative and then there's the social democrat with republican politics. two great examples of this are arnold and guliani. honestly, their social lives are quite opposite from what i live, but when it comes to the political decisions they make or have made, i stand behind them. you don't have to be a religious fanatic to be republican, you only have to believe in capitalism and people working for a living. dems are creeping closer and closer to socialism which is what lead to the downfall of the soviet union.

'Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.' -- Isaiah 5:20

[Magnus]

Know what else I hate? LABELS!!!

Democrats, Republicans, Liberals, Conservatives, Communists, athiests, facists, capitalists! Hey, just do what's right instead of following some stupid, hand-cuffing party policy! Don't label me as anything because my next move may be something that completely goes agains with what you just labled me as!

Know this: Spammers, Flammers and Trolls will be shown no mercy and given no quarter. They will be pursued to the ends of the earth and executed Mod-style.

- Magnus

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/TlantMagnus/Trollkills.jpg

[Kool]

Fair enough Debz, Good response. /emoticons/cool.gif

Where am I going and why am I in this handbasket?

[Debz]

Magnus said...
What I find really funny, is that in most strip clubs they serve alcohol, an ingrediant certain to increase the likely hood for trouble. Yet here is a Gentleman's club, serving juice. WHOAH! Look out! I'm buzzed off my mango-raspberry punch! Most places that I've seen (In Canada no less, but frequented by people from Buffalo, NY) aren't shoddy at all. They're well kept because believe it or not, the business owners want the highest amount of money they can make off their clubs. If they're run down or out of control with crime of any kind, who's going to come.

Some of you say you don't want to be in a neighbourhood with a strip club. You don't want your kids 'seeing' that. Seeing what? A naked person? Turn on your pancakeing TV's. Hop on the internet. At least in a Strip club it takes more effort to go there than flipping on your computer or satellite/cable. So what if there's a club there...does a perpetual storm hang over it? Does all the vegetation in the area die, and the undead walk the earth after the sun sets?

a. i go out all the time post 11pm
b. i never watch tv, i dont even have cable
c. if i had kids their tv would be monitored closely
d. i would control the internet as much as possible
e. in PHILLY strip clubs are all trashy around here, at least they look it, no i would NOT want to live by a strip club around here, the general area's in which the clubs are.. are not the best neighborhood's.
f. i never siad that tv, radio and the internet was something good for kid's that was actually never brought up.

plz.. no more sales.. :( plz!!!

krylliah.blogspot.com (http://krylliah.blogspot.com)

[Debz]

Kool said...
Fair enough Debz, Good response. /emoticons/cool.gif

/emoticons/biggrin.gif
now lets all get naked.. /emoticons/yeah.gif

lol!

plz.. no more sales.. :( plz!!!

krylliah.blogspot.com (http://krylliah.blogspot.com)

[morea]

I haven't read most of this thread. Every time religion comes up my first reaction is to get defensive.

It makes me sad that some extremists in every religion make a lot of noise and their religions are "judged", for lack of a better word, by their behavior.

Religion teaches tolerance, love, and acceptance. It tries to show us all how to get along, to stop hurting each other, and to realize that this great big world is bigger than any one of us.

The people causing the ruckus are the ones who get the attention, but they are not fair representations of what their religions teach.

I just wish that people would realize that is possible to be both religious AND open-minded.

Church and State are supposed to be kept separate for a reason. For example, I wouldn't go to a strip club, but at the same time, I wouldn't suggest that they should be made illegal (although I don't think that they should set up right next to a school or anything). If you don't like it, you don't have to go...

a little respect goes a long way - on BOTH sides of the fence.





if you can't say something nice, shut the hell up.

Memoirs of the Driven Insane (http://morealyera.blogspot.com/)

Post Edited (morea) : 2/3/2005 4:59:57 PM GMT

[Jason Fraker]

Yup. Morality is such a terrible thing. You guys are sooo right. What were we 'religious nutjobs' thinking?

A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth can even put on its shoes.
-Mark Twain

[Magnus]

Morea: In theory religion is supposed to teach those things, in practice it's a different story.

Morality as regulated by someone else's idea, backed up with threats of eternal damnation if i don't adhere to their code, or persecution if my religion is different? No thanks, you can keep it.

And Debz, if you want to monitor your children, that's fine. But these are adults that frequent these places. I wouldn't credit politicians enough to say what's right and wrong for them or anyone considering they are usually forcing their own ideas on people, or pursuing their own agendas. Secondly, DO you know anyone that DOES live near a strip club? How do you know it's 'bad'?

Does anyone here live near one? Until we get someone with first hand experience, the whole 'bad neighbhourhood' theme is baloney unless you can prove it.

Know this: Spammers, Flammers and Trolls will be shown no mercy and given no quarter. They will be pursued to the ends of the earth and executed Mod-style.

- Magnus

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/TlantMagnus/Trollkills.jpg

[Debz]

theres the one off of State Rd. in Northeast Philly, I lived about a mile away. Not so great area.. not horrible, but getting worse.. the occasional prisoner escapee would be around that area.

Theres one at 5 points in philly, right around that area.. trashy.. i wouldnt live there. Yeah i can say living in Philadelphia I know the good/bad spots to be. Now pin-ups was in a okay neighborhood, but the bus stop was right there so ppl prolly werent roaming thru the neighborhoods. it has since been replaced by a medical center.

I cant be specific about areas in the burbs around me since i only lived in the burbs about 2 yrs of my life. Im generally a city girl.

plz.. no more sales.. :( plz!!!

krylliah.blogspot.com (http://krylliah.blogspot.com)

[defjoe]

So because Philly is a crap hole and has crap hole clubs that is how all clubs are?

sounds like a sheltered world to me.

there is a church in this area called Pine Hills here in Orlando... alot of the crime is there. Church looks run down, never been in it but according to your 'standards' Debz... maybe it should be closed.

I vote the person, not the party. Let's just say I have no president in my mind.

Oh and Religion teaches love? Tell that to the guys that were molested by priests when they were kids, cause the churchs says they can't marry or have sex.

at least when you go to a club you know what to expect.

'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'
'I'm the damn designer, bitches!'

Check out my indie comic book!
www.assassinsguild.net/ (http://www.assassinsguild.net/)

[Magnus]

Yeah but defjoe, the priests loved those boys...honest. Well, at least for a few minutes anyway.

Debz, a strip club doesn't make an area a bad place..usually poverty does that which some may say is linked to crime.

Know this: Spammers, Flammers and Trolls will be shown no mercy and given no quarter. They will be pursued to the ends of the earth and executed Mod-style.

- Magnus

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/TlantMagnus/Trollkills.jpg

[defjoe]

Yeah Mags I also heard the rumor that they liked to play AC/DC's 'Let me put my love into you'

'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'
'I'm the damn designer, bitches!'

Check out my indie comic book!
www.assassinsguild.net/ (http://www.assassinsguild.net/)

[Drorain]

theres a cash cow of a lawsuit there...how many people do you think are BSing? Hmm? IMO many many many of those people are full of it, if I was an alter boy at a given time at said church, I'd have my hand out too.

http://www.grivakisgraphics.com/images/img_logomark.jpg

"I Heart Chewie"
Oh Chewie I love U "click (http://wso.williams.edu/~rfoxwell/starwars/sounds/Chewie03.wav)"

[morea]

ah. there's that 'respect' we hear so much about, huh? /emoticons/dry.gif

if you can't say something nice, shut the hell up.

Memoirs of the Driven Insane (http://morealyera.blogspot.com/)

[D-Frag]

hehe, i love when my rant posts get off on a whole nother subject.

So let me get this straight, strip clubs = bad? what about book stores? when i was a teen, i saw most of the porn right in my local Barnes and Noble.

But wait, there is more, how about 7 11's, Circle K's, and any other convenience store that sells Hustler, Playboy, Penthouse, and Barely Legal. And don't get me started on TV, they just try and shock people as much as they can to get ratings.

Point is, our society is so hell bent on trying to keep things 'Christian' and when our president hopefulls were battling it out, what got brought up?? religion, and what's happening right now? well bushy boy is probably going to nix the supreme court judge that has been stopping his anti-abortion law from passing. Which I foresee in the next 4 years, abortion being illegal. And that is a touchy subject for alot of people, for me it comes down to rights, and freedom, something we don't have much of, and will be slowly going away.

I could post a george carlin stand up routine, but it might be a little to racy for this thread, it basically outlines that Church pays no taxes, but they always need more donations. Why, because money=greed, and even religion has bowed down to the mighty devil to make a dollar and touch children in wrong ways.

And on another note, I am completly against any religious force, they are basically cults, what bothers me is that the majority of people don't see it that way, which is fine, that's their right. But the minute you knock on my door, and try to convert me, the gloves come off.

http://img15.exs.cx/img15/7863/nufrag2nk6zq.jpg

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[idaho]

defjoe said...
if yo don't like them... don't go in them. if a place of busniess pays taxes and follows the rules, then let them be. I hate these nut ball religious types trying to tell me what to do. F off and go pray or something. You need a good pancake in the ass!

I'm opposed to places where people get together and chant like mindless idiots... can I shut them down?

The club owner should use the nut ball religious angle to his benefit. Turn the bar into a church that uses the nude female body, sexuality and dancing as a part of it's beliefs. I doubt it would be that hard to do either. He can call it The Church of Nudeology. If the Scientologists can do it so can he. I'll volunteer to be the first ordainded minister of the church. As long as I get free boobies and juice I'll be set.

The county couldn't do crap to him because religion is protected under the first amendment.

I despise people who try to tell me that my morals should be the same as theirs (See George Bush)! They should just suck off and go pound sand up their asses! Years ago George Carlin, as a part of his act, talked about some nut preacher being pissed about the things that were being broadcast on the radio. George's comment was something along the lines of 'Hey revered...If you don't like it then there are two knobs on the radio. One CHANGES THE STATION and the other TURN OFF THE RADIO!!!' (I'm paraphrasing).

Anyway, if someone doesn't like it then don't go there but don't tell me what I can and can't do.

-Idaho
'You want it when? Ok, no problem. Excuse me while I pull the magic wand out of my ass!'

[Neuro]

Passing judgement on ALL based on the actions of SOME is not fair judgement.

"Thats just my opinion, I could be wrong." - Dennis Miller


** PersonalBlog (http://neuro-i-carmotur.blogspot.com)

** Business Blog (http://catseyecreations.blogspot.com)

[Drawing a Blank]

3Howards said...
look, there are different dimensions to republicans then most liberals like to think. there's the religious conservative and then there's the social democrat with republican politics. two great examples of this are arnold and guliani. honestly, their social lives are quite opposite from what i live, but when it comes to the political decisions they make or have made, i stand behind them. you don't have to be a religious fanatic to be republican, you only have to believe in capitalism and people working for a living. dems are creeping closer and closer to socialism which is what lead to the downfall of the soviet union.
I think the same can be said for most "groups" of people not just Republicans. Did you mean that or aremost of us "liberals" the same? You see I ask that because I am a democrat (though not a Democrat), but I can assure you I am not creeping closer to socialism. I think you have hit on one of the biggest problems (if by purpose or accident) and that is that people assume I think in a certain way because I'm a white, straight, democrat, artist. Or that anyone thinks in a certain way because they fit into some "group" label.

I agree with Magnus when he said
"Know what else I hate? LABELS!!!

Democrats, Republicans, Liberals, Conservatives, Communists, athiests, facists, capitalists! Hey, just do what's right instead of following some stupid, hand-cuffing party policy!






blah blah blah blah blah blah

[morea]

this topic is as tired as the mac vs pc wars. Nobody is going to change anybody else's mind, and everyone has said their piece.

maybe it ought to be moved to the soap box.

if you can't say something nice, shut the hell up.

Memoirs of the Driven Insane (http://morealyera.blogspot.com/)

[Debz]

Philly is NOT a crap hole. at least the non-ghetto areas. any city has that.

I was saying that I would NOT live in the areas that those clubs where in now, and thats my opnion. i aint sayin shut the crap down. im sayin you dont know what its like to live there, you dont know the neighborhood/situation. no dont close things down in bad areas cuz thats what they choose but i dont live there so why would i choose for them. your missing what i said.

I would choose to live in a area that upheld what i believed, We cannot pass judgement on this because who the hell knows what this town/area is like. If a area wants their stuff. Keep it. Im not that involved into the sex industry to know where I know what Good and Bad strip clubs, book stores are. I know the areas I live, places I would go and what I would do in said area's at specific times.

Keep churches in bad areas, keep porn in good areas. thats fine. But this is completely situational... Like i said in my original post.............



'I personally wouldnt want a Strip club in the general area that I live in.. now a few miles away, i could deal. But seriously, yall dont know the situation.. yall dont live there. Some people are pure trash. Im not saying the people who go occasionally, but really think of the people who go to these things like everyday n crap. I dont want my kids around that crap. You dont live there you DONT know what its like..'

plz.. no more sales.. :( plz!!!

krylliah.blogspot.com (http://krylliah.blogspot.com)

[TBdesign]

Have lived in areas throughout my life with strip clubs, adult book stores, etc. not one of them has been a bad area, more so it is middle class and upper middle class area, and same for the people frequenting the places.

As for religion goes...Flogging Molly puts it best....'Forgive me Father for I have sinned, but so have you.'

... Have no fear of perfection - You will never reach it ...

[Flaming Moe]

This is fun! Everyone is mad at each other! I think we should have something like the old crusades, instead this time we try and plunder and pillage senior citizens! I hate them! All they do is sit around puking on themselves...but I bet they're the ones really pulling the strings those sneaky bastids!

Una-panoona-banka!

[Debz]

i hate no one :P Debating is fun..

plz.. no more sales.. :( plz!!!

krylliah.blogspot.com (http://krylliah.blogspot.com)

[reuber1]

TB, Flogging Molly rules. Labels, however, do not. Hackery of another persons polotik gets people nowhere...look at CNN's Crossfire. It's so easy to get into a debate by using namecalling...if anyone watched Team America: World Police there are only three labels you should concern yourself with...

I've learned from a previous post concerning the presidential debates andI would have to agree with morea; I'm pretty surethat no one will argue their point and magically convince anyone of the opposite view to jump ship. Beliefs are powerful things, and many people here are trying to say one or the other is wrong. Personally, I am a libertarian, and I have my views, but honestly I rarely like to get into heated debates such as this and unnecessarily get people pissed off for useless reasons. We all have at least one thing in common (most of us anyway), and we are Designers, we're creative professionals and having these sorts of beliefs could in a way be considered part of our creative personality.

By the way, for those of you who like George Carlin and agree with his political message, look up Bill Hicks (if there are any "Tool" listeners out there, a tidbit of his routine is playedat the beginning of"Third Eye" on the Aenema CD)...quite possibly the most hilarious comedian I've ever heard, and that's saying a lot.



I hate trolls.