Is GoLive as good as or better that Dreamweaver. ?

[Liam]

hi everyone.
i was just wondering if Adobe Golive is as good as dreamweaver for WYSIWYG and layout. Im also asuming in integrates well whith the rest of the Creative Suite (CS). I havent used dreamweaver for a long time, and rather than getting used to dreamweaver again i was wondering if GoLive would be a good move. The reason i am asking is that we have just finnished the Indesign tutorials in GD class and I life the way you can use smart guides to create a solid page layout. Does GoLive offer such features? Just let me know thx ;)
And obviosly Flash is still by far the best for amimated page content right ?
any info, advice would be appreciated :)

[... LIAM ...]

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[Ryan8720]

They both suck.

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Trolls Banned: 2

[PrintDriver]

Spoken like a true coder Ryan. LOL!

Liam, Dreamweaver is better than GoLive but if you are gonna do web design for real, learn to code.

PD is a grande format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

[Akewz]

Yeah, Dreamweaver is better than Golive, especially if you're going to intergrate Flash elements, since all of the Macromedia products work well together.
And no, Dreamweaver doesn't suck... In the hands of an experienced user a lot of nice things can be done with it. I personally don't use it since I do everything in Flash.
I would rather go to a nice looking functional site that was built in Dreamweaver, then to some 'hand coded' site that looked like ass and functioned about the same.

Still, I agree that it is important to learn how to hand code.
It'll make you a stronger web developer. If you're mainly a designer, then there's nothing wrong with strictly using Dreamweaver, or something eqivalent.

http://www.denness.net/scrobblersig.php?username=Akewz

Post Edited (Akewz) : 2/9/2005 2:53:38 AM GMT

[Liam]

i know html, DUH!, lol
i just prefer WYSIWYG becuase it speeds things up, i usually go back and edit the 'junk' code that is added my the software ;)
i think i will stick w/ dreamweaver then, oh and dreamweaver is very good for coding even, because you can creat server pages and everything, it also highligts the tags to make them easier to find. i dont like the programing side of html, but i of couse know the basix if html but i agree w/ Akewz, but lets not turn this in to another argument. lol
the question was awansered Dreaweaver Wins, for WYSIWYG {{AND}} CODING ;p
ok, thx ,
ttyl

LIAM

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[Liam]

PS. Flash is better than any HTML :)

MACREMEDIA FLASH RULZ ;)
GO FLASH FANS!!!

ps, i use a lot of flash ;)

LIAM

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[Ulysses]

You'll find that no WYSIWYG software can properly generate/display/manage CSS or XHTML or DHTML code. Hell ... they can't even display javascript .write content ... and as for Flash/PHP etc ... forget it. The web is dynamic, the future is dynamic, and no seriously dynamic content can be built visually (then again you probably know that already, creating and duplicating movieclips, functions etc, with just actionscript).

If you can already use dreamweaver though, then just stick with it ... waste of time learning another program, if it basically has the same features available to you. You're better off spending that time, polishing your coding skills, and learning new techniques.

[defjoe]

there about the same to me. it's preference really.

'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'
'I'm the damn designer, bitches!'

Check out my indie comic book!
www.assassinsguild.net/ (http://www.assassinsguild.net/)

I just want to ad that as amazing as flash is it can't be the all in one application for web. We still need xhtml and CSS and good designers know that using a combination of all technologies is the best way to go.

Graphic Design Heroes! Call me Captain Type Caster. I’ve fought off “The Evil Cosmic Sans” for year but it seems “Dr. Extreme Untalent” keeps bringing him back. I must find a way to defeat this evil creature.

Capt. Creative bring me those comps…

[Akewz]

benjo... said...
I just want to ad that as amazing as flash is it can't be the all in one application for web. We still need xhtml and CSS and good designers know that using a combination of all technologies is the best way to go.

Actually, you can use CSS in Flash.(MX 2004)
Styles for Flash can be loaded from an external CSS file or created in Flash itself using Actionscript.

http://www.denness.net/scrobblersig.php?username=Akewz

[Ulysses]

Yes you can use CSS in Flash, Akewz .. but control is very very limited. Not to mention, the standard player version that you should be designing for (unless you want to seriously limit your visitors) does not supports CSS ... but this is all personal choice. I though, design all my Flash content to be Windows XP compliant (afterall, like it or not, most of your audience is going to be using it with default settings).

[Akewz]

All I was doing is pointing out that in fact it is possible to use CSS with Flash.

http://www.denness.net/scrobblersig.php?username=Akewz

[Liam]

see, at the end of the day, when making a website its really what the user 'SEE'S' you can use lots of coding and kewl scripts, but a truly good website is one that
-looks good
-easy to navigate
-interesting
this can all be achieved by many different methods. Macromedia Dreamweaver can import layouts from photoshop and then use CSS to turn it in to a website. flash is also very good, although using 'flash elements' in a page is also good. ;)
LIAM

http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/attach.aspx/2346/gdfsig.gif

[Ryan8720]

Not necessarily. If you have a very pretty e-commerce site with a shopping cart, but it doesn't calculate your total right, is everything still great at the end of the day? No.

I have to use DW on a daily basis at school, and for coding, there are coding editors that are much better. DW has too much extra crap that isn't needed. Sure you could go through and clean up the code after, but then why not just make it from scratch to begin with? After you have done a few web sites, you can start to reuse code and things go smooth without WYSIWYG.

Some good site characteristics you forgot:
- loads fast
- runs correctly
- is accessable for the biggest possible audience

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Trolls Banned: 2

[Akewz]

So ryan... what are these 'much better coding editors' you speak of?
Of course I'm not doubting you in any way -how could I?
I was just curious to know what they were.

Also, what is this 'too much extra crap' you speak of in Dreamweaver?
Again, I'm just curious because I want to be able to steer clear of said extra crap.

As a bonus, I would like to ad one more thing to your list of good site characteristics -Rollovers that function properly. I don't know about anyone else, but that's always been a peeve of mine.
It's such a simple thing, that it just seems lazy to not have them working properly. No?

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[Ulysses]

Use conTEXT ... great editor. Small, free, fully customizable, quick, and there's highlighters for practically any code language known to man.

[Ulysses]

As for rollovers ... or any javascript ... hard-coding solutions are more dynamic, leaner, and browser compliant than anything Dreamweaver can dish out. Afterall, dreamweaver is a visual editor, and that is what it does very well ... but most dynamic content has to be hard-coded, as it is generated on the fly, and no visual editor can reproduce it. It is like algebra ... computers do most of the work (like in 3D graphics), but you need to program the maths in yourself to do the really clever and exciting stuff.

[Akewz]

Thanks Ulysses, but the was a reason what I directed my question to ryan.

Trust me on this one, I'm well aware of everything you said; I've been doing this for a LONG time now.

http://www.denness.net/scrobblersig.php?username=Akewz

[Ryan8720]

Akewz said...
So ryan... what are these 'much better coding editors' you speak of?
Of course I'm not doubting you in any way -how could I?
I was just curious to know what they were.

Also, what is this 'too much extra crap' you speak of in Dreamweaver?
Again, I'm just curious because I want to be able to steer clear of said extra crap.

As a bonus, I would like to ad one more thing to your list of good site characteristics -Rollovers that function properly. I don't know about anyone else, but that's always been a peeve of mine.
It's such a simple thing, that it just seems lazy to not have them working properly. No?

Coding editors: TopStyle Pro for Windows. bbedit for Mac (although I haven't used it).

The extra crap I speak of is the when you work in WYSIWYG mode and it adds <p>&amp;nbsp;</p> for spacing, font tags, and other things that have been deprecated since HTML 4.

And yes, bad rollovers are annoying. I prefer to use CSS for them whenever possible.

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Free iPod (http://www.freeiPods.com/default.aspx?referer=9871683) (explanation (http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/default.aspx?f=35&m=98889&p=1))

[Akewz]

See, that was much more informative than 'they both suck'.
But I guess you don't get over 3000 posts by being concise.

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[Ryan8720]

It was so concise and to the point that is didn't explain. :)

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Free iPod (http://www.freeiPods.com/default.aspx?referer=9871683) (explanation (http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/default.aspx?f=35&m=98889&p=1))

[Akewz]

Ryan8720 said...
It was so concise and to the point that is didn't explain. :)

Riiiiiiiight.... Got'cha chief.

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[Nathan Rutman]

I use Dreamweaver to write my code by hand. I don't use the WYSIWYG functions, but I do love being able to click an element (an image, lets say) and have it jump to that section in the code pane. I like it...

Nate

Nathan Rutman
Corporate Communications Designer
Solvepoint Corporation
www.solvepoint.com (http://www.solvepoint.com)