Career Advice - Graphic Design....??

[GTMUK]

Hey everyone, hope your evening's are all pleasant!

Having being on a few forums I realise how irritating it is to have a newbie(first post no less fo'shame!) requesting some help but here goes - I'm counting on some good natured folk and if all goes according to plan I will be on here for years to come!!...

I have been seriously considering taking up a Graphic Design course at Univerisity for a while now - it's always something that has really appealed to me and I enjoy any kind of digital design.

Here's the catch and where I need advice... I can't apply this year so will have to go for October 2006 (when I will be 26 years of age) meaning if qualified I'll be pushing 30 and if job adverts are anything to go by I will need 2 years experience minimum to get ANY type of job.

I've been on anIT helpdesk for5 years and have *some* exposure to Flash, Fireworks, Dreamweaver and some basic HTML, not loads but enough to know my way around and have a small portfoliomainly of small designs - nothing specialif I'm honest but not terrible....

I was wondering if anyone could give me any advice on avenue's of exposure and helping me in my quest and whether my not being overly talented with drawing would count against me? Pc design I am fine but as for a previous "art" background I am found wanting...

I am a young man who is desperate for a job or career that I enjoy(hey you can hope) and am asking for any help to set me on the road...

Many thanks for even taking the time to read this...

Gavin (London, UK)

[morea]

Hey Gavin, welcome to the forum.

Your best bet might be to try to get an entry level job doing prepress work at a print shop... that way you will get real world experience to comlement your education.

There are some great discussions on this topic here (http://'http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabindex=2&tabid=139&itemid=31').

Good luck to you! /DesktopModules/dotNetBB/emoticons/cheers.gif

[I]The more people I meet, the more I love my cats.</A>

[morea]

another excellent source is our own Jeff Fisher's book, 'The Savvy Designers Guide to Success' - an excellent read with very practical ideas!

[I]The more people I meet, the more I love my cats.</A>

[GTMUK]

Many thanks Morea - I knew I should of had a look around the site....!!

I've been looking around for such a job but there isn't much about hence the thought to go full time uni - I would prefer to get on the job experience myself...

[morea]

when I was conducting my job search I checked the phone book 'yellow pages' - you can also search your area on www.switchboard.com (http://www.switchboard.com) <-though this may be USA only, it might be worth a try.

I targeted print shops, newspapers, advertising agencies, publishers, etc. Check related fields, even though they may not be exactly what you are looking for. It can be a tough road, but persistence pays off!

You may want to have a look over the forum, there is some excellent information here, and many folks with tons of knowledge and experience. They're generally a good bunch, and like to help out whenever possible.

Finally, you can teach yourself quite a bit from books... you may want to look into things like color theory, typography, and other design basics if you are not terribly faniliar with these things.

[I]The more people I meet, the more I love my cats.</A>

[Tyger]

just add on top of what morea already has said, try to find something in your field you can do parttime after school or on the weekends to get some experience. Just to add though that Graphic design has evolved in a great way. Now adays there are numerous things company's look for besides design skills. What i mean is that many jobs out there look for 3d design, web skills as well, also and knowledge and experience in print. So your best bet is to learn as many programs you can that can cover all aspects of design. Although not necessary but you would benefit from it greatly.


some programs to learn: Photoshop, illustrator, Indesign, Quark, Dreamweaver, Flash, Fireworks
if you are into 3d 3dsmax, Maya just to name a few.....

good luck to ya!

http://img237.exs.cx/img237/6410/sig1sy.jpg

[GTMUK]

Brilliant stuff fella's lots for me to be having a look at - luckily at work they have some funds to get training CDs so I've got Fireworks, Flash and Photoshop to get a better understanding...

And Tyger I might have a job getting an after school job - left in '96 haha.....know what you mean and the London Art Uni that I am thinking of applying to are running 'introduction to graphic design' for 10 weeks during the summer to give people a better understanding so am considering going on that (it's £400 though so pricey) - thing that put me off (and prompted the question) is they say you need loads of design equipment with you (i.e drawing materials like different styled pencils and stuff).....!!

[morea]

GTMUK, the other thing I was going to add... you may want to get yourself a sketchbook and carry it around with you... I have never been confident in my ability to draw, but have noticed marked improvement in my drawings since I started doing this. It's sort of like an artistic diary!

[I]The more people I meet, the more I love my cats.</A>

[uncle carbunkle]

the pencils and stuff are the least of your worries. what 'london art uni' are you talking about? (don't worry - i'm not next door)

depending on the reputation of this uni, the 400quid may be well worth it. if not, then you might think about a foundation course (*sigh* i know, i know) to prep you and help you decide. the advice about getting some hands-on experience in a shop is good, if you're looking to work in print.

it's a tough slog right now. but if it's what you want to do, you'll just have to work at it.

::Don't call me Foreman, for I am your Boss::

[GTMUK]

Uncle - it's the University Of The Arts London - Central Saint Martin College Of Art & Design - why so?

I think I may go for the course to see whether or not I enjoy it - it's 10 weeks on Tues & Thurs so it is the smart move to see if risking three years is worth it...

Sketchpad? So there is a side of practical drawing and design within these course then? (dammit haha)

[uncle carbunkle]

why so? because it's not a bad place to be, by all accounts. if it were me, i'd take the summer course just so that i had the opportunity to carry on in the autumn...but then, i like uni. (if it were a rubbish school, i'd advise a part time foundation, when you had time).

might be good to meet a few lecturer-type people as well and see what their advice is. you're 'mature' so you might get some breaks...i don't know. grants? there are a few kids from the uk around here, so maybe they can be of more help.

keep us posted.

::Don't call me Foreman, for I am your Boss::

[GTMUK]

Again many thanks for all your advice (your all fast asleep now just worked out this is a US site haha)


I'm going to talk a walk up to Waterstones in central london today to see if I can get the Jeff Fisher book - seems to have good very good reviews from what I've seen....


The course I have been looking at are as follows -


Graphics Summer School
Andrew Hall BA (Hons) and others


Course 1
Dates: 01/08/2005 to 12/08/2005
Times: Weekdays 10.00–16.00
Length: 2 weeks
Cost: £495
location: Southampton Row


Contemporary graphic design includes four major areas: typography and design, art illustration, advertising and photography. This course offers students the chance to explore all four on a carousel basis with project links forged between the disciplines to create continuity and development. We are looking for students with varied amounts of experience who are inquisitive, open-minded and passionate about graphic design and who wish to increase their understanding of their subject and develop their work in these areas. There will be critiques and discussions about the work each day with a 'super-crit' at the end of the course, where all participants will have a selection of work discussed and appraised by the tutors. We hope that students will leave the course inspired and knowledgeable about this dynamic and ever-changing area of art and design. This course can be combined with Computers and Graphic Design and Illustration Workshop for students who want to build a wide-ranging portfolio.


Andrew Hall is a graphic and theatre designer. He is the subject leader in illustration on BA Graphic Design at Central Saint Martins.


This is a full two week course which I think I might do - get it all done and see where I stand - could afford to take the time off work luckily if I save my leave and think it might be more benefitial then 2-3 hours every week....


Graphic Design – Beginners’ Evening Course
Bobby Gunthorpe BA (Hons)

It's easy to find the right answer if you ask the right questions. This course is aimed at anybody wishing to use their creativity in a professional way. The course will introduce the basic elements of design work including analysing a brief, finding inspiration, visualising ideas and being resourceful in finding practical ways of realising projects. The students will learn to work with sketchbooks, typography, composition and images. Going through diverse exercises and briefs, the course will give students the confidence to approach any kind of design project and come up with unexpected and individual answers.

Bobby Gunthorpe is a graphic designer working for a range of large and small clients in print, multimedia and web. He gained his degree at Central Saint Martins.


Hmmmm decisions decisions.....

[Wonder Woman]

It's a shame you can't get in this October. If I'm right in thinking, the fees system changes in October 2006 to allow universities to charge up to £3000 a year, whereas now it's only £1100. Not sure if that's applicable to you since it's an arts university you're planning on going to, I was only allowed to go to a measly regular university! Haha!

I think the idea of an introduction course is a great idea. It will help you confirm whether Graphics is for you. It's a tough market out there in the UK at the moment, graphics is not an easy occupation. I've just decided to get out. I was fed up of being paid rubbish, being treated like a moron and having to deal with a lot of the people I seemd to have to deal with. Oh yeah, and having all the documents for a project written in Comic Sans (sorry!).

The university idea is probably the right way to go down in the UK. Most of the jobs I've seen advertised recently are looking for a minimum of a degree, plus experience. If you do the introduction course and decide graphics is for you, then I would seriously try to find another job doing any kind of graphics or print work until you start your degree. It will be invaluable experience and will teach you an awful lot the university won't but should. I would also try to keep this job while you are studying. The cash will help a lot, but the experience you will gain while studying will help you immensely. If I can stress anything strongly it would be this. It took me forever to get a job when I graduated because I had little commercial experience.

Good luck with the decision!

Searching for creative juices

[GTMUK]

I agree it's a shame, but the deadline has already past and it's too short notice to get some money behind me.... I hope they are not bumping up the fees as it will be a struggle for me anyway!!!

I guess the short of it is I'm not 100% on anything really - it's just something I enjoy doing but that doesn't always translate into an 'enjoyable' job does it....

I've seen distance learning courses but I think I'd need hands on approach - guess I've got a year and a half to get my mind straight I suppose...

And ALL jobs in the UK seem to require a degree and minimum 2 years experience as standard - so I'll be 30 and looking for an 15-18,000 internship somewhere - hahaha.....


Bill Hicks - RIP - Legend

[defjoe]

don't waste your time at a university. try to get the 2 years NOW!

yes it's as simple as that.

'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'
'I'm the damn designer, bitches!'

Check out my indie comic book!
www.assassinsguild.net/ (http://www.assassinsguild.net/)

[GTMUK]

I would prefer to do it like that if I'm honest but every job - and I do mean every requires degree AND two years....

D'you mean starting at a very very low level somewhere....?

http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/undefinedBill Hicks - RIP - Legend

[BOSCOW]

2 years or a 4 year, tough decision, depending on where you end up and your talent, you could end up starting on the bottom just depends on the company and your talent, pay may be a little more for 4 years but the two years you would be working after a tech degree kind of makes up for it, sometimes.

[GTMUK]

It's all a risk whichever way I look at it - I guess I'm thinking I could be stuck in a crap job for a couple of years not getting skills I need as opposed to sticking it out for a few years - sure I would then have to do the same thing but at least I have a solid background....

Just to show you how lacking I am here are a few designs I did for a friend who was running comedy nights (he's also a DJ) - as you can see my graphics isn't great so I think I need 3 years at school...!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/gtm007uk/KevinSmith.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/gtm007uk/ChrisRock2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/gtm007uk/BillHicks.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/gtm007uk/PeterKay.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/gtm007uk/DJEmpathy7.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/gtm007uk/DJEmpathy5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/gtm007uk/DJEmpathy4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/gtm007uk/DJEmpethy.jpg
[/url][url="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/gtm007uk/DJEmpathy1.jpg"] (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/gtm007uk/DJEmpethy1.jpg)











http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/undefinedBill Hicks - RIP - Legend


Post Edited (GTMUK) : 3/10/2005 4:09:57 PM GMT

[Invader Xan]

Hey Gav...

Just FYI, I never took a degree in design -- or even arts. I studied chemistry. I guess I kinda got into graphics through the back door. Started working for a newspaper as a DTP operator for some experience and grabbed the first available transfer to a design position. As I'm sure anyone on here will tell you, experience and competence count more than qualifications. Work on your portfolio and take every available opportunity to create something interesting.

Don't understate yourself dude, from those designs you posted, you have potential -- and to kick things off, that's all you need!
Entry level positions are out there. You just need to look in the right places (and if you're me, compromise on the salary a little for a while). Newspapers, magazines, print shops, the yellow pages...

Just... try and steer clear of Northcliffe papers. They suck, trust me.

I would've taken over the world, but I got distracted by shiny things.

Ooo! Shiny things!

[orangeena]

Gavin,

I manage a graphic design department and have hired a several designers and a multitude interns. Your age would NOT be a factor when you finish school. Sure you may be a bit older than the average designer straight out of college with a degree at 22, but you are NOT the average designer and don't sell yourself short.

If I had a resume from someone with a design degree AND 5 years background on an IT help desk, it would go straight to the top of the pile!!! In this field in particular, the more you know about the software and the technical stuff (printers and such) the better off you will be. A lot of designers come out of school and know nothing about the computer that they spent so much time on. I'd rather have a self-sufficient, independant designer with a wide breadth of experience over a 'can you help me figure out why this won't print' type any day!

Good luck!

[GTMUK]

Thanks again for the comments people I hardly thought I'd get any response so it's nice that a question which has been asked I presume millions is giving me some encouragment.

I think the next step will be to go on the introduction course during the summer to give me a feel - am kind of looking forward to it.

I've bought some supplies to do some sketching - so far it's more of layouts of web design and company logos etc but it's a start. I'm also currently reading the Graphic Design Bible and have ordered Jeff Fishers book. Basically trying to get my knowledge of Dreamweaver and Flash increased (as well as obtaining copies of Quark 6 and InDesign from a friend)

It's one of those risks I guess but Invader your right about the experience - I have been reading DesignWeek and Creative Review for a while - I'd gladly take a pay cut to get some experience, I may end up getting into the industry and hating it but it's got to be worth a shot.....

Again thanks to all for taking the time to reply!

http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/undefinedBill Hicks - RIP - Legend