You get what you pay for!

[Patrick Shannon]

Sorry if I've been on a tirade this week, but the employers just have been pushing all the wrong buttons on me. So I need the trusty soapbox. Besides, maybe you'll get a kick out of this too.

So I actually get handed an interesting project last night, a gas station wants to hang signs to promote the sale of their large liquor selection, etc. These are going to be 24x36 inch boards, need something creative worked up. So naturally, this is the stuff I bite at. I shoved all my other lame-ass crap to the back of the inbox (even though many of these jobs came in long before, but they're dime-a-dozen stuff.) Anyway, I get to work, and here is what I was in the middle of.......

www.patrickshannon.com/good-sign.jpg (http://www.patrickshannon.com/good-sign.jpg)
(By the way, it's an unfinished project for the reasons I state next. I had no intentions of going with that font, this board is half finished. But you can see where I was kind of going with it.)

That takes me about an hour to do, only because mein fuhrer kept interrupting me (whenever there's a project he has to be involved in, he breaks in on my pile and it's 'rush' EVERY time, totally ridiculous). Anyway, something on the job ticket caught my eye.....

0:20 Typesetting (hourly) $20.00

That's twenty dollars. Ergo, twenty minutes. They expect me to do something creative in twenty minutes. So I questioned the boss's son on this asking 'Are they only paying twenty dollars for this?' and naturally the answer was 'yes.'

So it was time to go back to the drawing board. Twenty minutes of work, you got it.

www.patrickshannon.com/crappy-sign.jpg (http://www.patrickshannon.com/crappy-sign.jpg)

You get what you pay for. I don't think this is the customer's fault, because the customer is never informed about the nature of design. Perhaps if they saw what I was up to, perhaps they'd be willing to go about a hour/hour-and-a-half of typesetting, that should do it. After all, which one of these posters do you want seen hanging in your store? /DesktopModules/dotNetBB/emoticons/devil.gif

I'm not too mad about it, I'm going to take the good sign's files home and complete this project for myself. I need more of this 'commercial' type of stuff in my portfolio.

Patrick Shannon

'Dear valued customer, go home and die. Signed, your friendly graphic artist.'

http://www.patrickshannon.com/mwwc_sm.gif
My War With Culture (http://www.mywarwithculture.com)
Political incorrectness reinvented.

Post Edited (Patrick Shannon) : 3/16/2005 4:05:34 PM GMT

[Magnus]

That's hilarious man! Hey, i think it's totally fair and right what you did.

"Sometimes I do what I want...most of the time, I do what I have to." (Cicero, from "Gladiator")

"There is a difference between knowing the path, and walking the path." (Morpheus, from"The Matrix")


"It's not cheating if you win...do what you have to do, but don't sacrifice your own honour in the process." (Taken from my iaido instructor, and modified by me)

"I am serving my time in hell on earth...at the job I am currently employed at." (Magnus, about his job)

[1984]

LOL @ 'mein fuhrer' !!

28:06:42:12

[Michelle P.R.G.D.]

LOL Good job, Always stand up for yourself,I have learned this the hard way. if someone wants a $20 design give them a $20 design or tell them to go elsewhere.

I had a lady i had been talking to for months about deisgning her business card, so when her business cards run out she would call ,e. So the time just came up , I prepare a little bit for the meeting, she runs a hair salon. so i did up a logo and some concepts, brought some books to sow here etc..... so she is like ok, so I ask her what her budget is for them, and explain to her about printing etc. she says to call her that monday. So i call and get qoutes for printing based on what she had expkaine dwhat she wanted, called her monday told her it will cost this much for tht printing, but we can work on less colors etc.... she then was like what are they crazy, and i was like no that is actually a good price then i tell her for my deisng i charge this. and she is like what? you charge extra for design? Im like, i told you from the beginning i am a graphic designer not a printer or something. not sure exactly what she though, anyways she says well i can get business cards printed for $35 down the street so why would i pay this. LOL I couldnt belive it, i said yes your right if you want $35 template business cards then why not, she then says, well i dont have enough business to pay you, OBVIOUSLY CAUSE YOUR IMAGE SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ANyways, choose your battles, I could of explained to her the benefits of having a business card prfessional deisgned and creating an image for her, but i decided it was a waste of tme and she can have her template business card LOL


CRAZY PEOPLE. There really is a lack of knowledge for our profession. people think since they have a computer they are a design get a life! GRRRR they make me mad!!!!!!!! so if i have the tools to build a house, i am going to do it!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry for my venting email so sick of dumb people!!!!

Michelle, P.R.G.D.



'We strive to exceed your expectations'

[Magnus]

Michelle, what's the P.R.G.D. stand for?

"Sometimes I do what I want...most of the time, I do what I have to." (Cicero, from "Gladiator")

"There is a difference between knowing the path, and walking the path." (Morpheus, from"The Matrix")


"It's not cheating if you win...do what you have to do, but don't sacrifice your own honour in the process." (Taken from my iaido instructor, and modified by me)

"I am serving my time in hell on earth...at the job I am currently employed at." (Magnus, about his job)

[morea]

Provisional Registered Graphic Designer /DesktopModules/dotNetBB/emoticons/biggrin.gif

graphicdesignforum.com/desktopdefault.aspx?f=8&m=109933&tabid=137 (http://graphicdesignforum.com/desktopdefault.aspx?f=8&m=109933&tabid=137)

[I]The more people I meet, the more I love my cats.</A>

[red raw]

Not to sound to 'Up Myself' but i'd tell them to F-Off for $20 (about £14 GBP) and I don't mean it in a bad or gloating way. What I mean is I know that I COULD do the advert in 20 mins and it would be basic but what is most likely to happen is I'd spend 2 hours creating a great advert and then end up selling myself short. I guess I'm still learning... they want cheap, they get cheap.

I designed a corporate ID package, logo, brochure and other things a few weeks ago and spent 90+ hours on it from research to final print. It was a hell of a long process, much longer than usual but I had no deadline and plenty of things to do. My fault for it taking too long as I REALLY wanted this to work as there is on-going work coming back from it but really it should have been around 1 weeks work (about 40 hours). Still the client was extremely happy and I got a good hourly rate.

Bravo for not letting yourself get mugged Patrick. That'll show'em, cheap asses

The difference between a Madman and me is I'm not Mad! - Dali

[Patrick Shannon]

Again, the real problem here is that the customer is not at fault 'per say,' but it's the front desk assigning the charges and believe a good poster/board can be designed in twenty minutes. Hell, I've seen them charge ten bucks typesetting for recreation projects. It's the salesman mentality, all they think we do is hit a few buttons and voila. Thus the customer is lead into thinking these prices are the norm. As I mentioned, if they saw what I was working on, perhaps they wouldn't flinch paying a little more for something like that.

Patrick Shannon

'Dear valued customer, go home and die. Signed, your friendly graphic artist.'

http://www.patrickshannon.com/mwwc_sm.gif
My War With Culture (http://www.mywarwithculture.com)
Political incorrectness reinvented.

[3howards]

what kills me is that they consider it typesetting and bill it that way. the print shop i used to work at billed almost everything i did as graphic design services, which was $80/hr. we had another person handling the typesetting, she/me/boss preferred it that way.

Underclings (http://underclings.blogspot.com/)

[Patrick Shannon]

I pretty much do it all :(

Patrick Shannon

'Dear valued customer, go home and die. Signed, your friendly graphic artist.'

http://www.patrickshannon.com/mwwc_sm.gif
My War With Culture (http://www.mywarwithculture.com)
Political incorrectness reinvented.

[Michelle P.R.G.D.]

Magnus,
PRGD is provisional registered graphic designer. Check out www.rgdontario.com for more info.

Michelle, P.R.G.D.



'We strive to exceed your expectations'

[WR]

Whoa, scumbag!

What is '0:20 Typesetting (hourly) $20.00' all about. Explain to me someone, please.


Bits of Abdul - My Blog (http://www.bitsofabdul.blogspot.com)

[greyghost]

Twenty bucks?
I didn't think ANYTHING graphic design related could be that cheap! Holy COW!

when it comes to certain clients, remind yourself:
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

I'm an ARTIST, not a MAGICIAN!

[Jerod Nelson]

I don't know.. I mean I understand where you are coming from with those crappy rates.. but if you did an excellent job on it and it only would take you a little while longer to finish the other one you should have. It will only help you in the long run.. much better for your portfolio.. and a pleased client is a returning client.


WAIT. EX that I didn't see that you were finishing it anyways and putting it in your folio.. heh good job then.

[Allen Harkleroad]

20 minutes = 20.00



Allen Harkleroad
"I didn't do it... You didn't see me... You can't prove a thing..."

[Patrick Shannon]

Jerod:

The point in scrapping it is twofold....one, it drives the message to the employers that they have to charge (or inform the customer) more for better work. Two, if the customer saw they could get away with something like that for 'twenty minutes of work,' who knows what kind of ridiculous things they'd ask for ridiculous prices. Like I said, it's not really the customer's fault here, they're simply being misinformed by overeager salemen who plan on making their buck on the printing (not to mention I never see a dime of it)

Patrick Shannon

'Dear valued customer, go home and die. Signed, your friendly graphic artist.'

http://www.patrickshannon.com/mwwc_sm.gif
My War With Culture (http://www.mywarwithculture.com)
Political incorrectness reinvented.

[Patrick Shannon]

Well, looks like there's gonna be a part two to this....the customer looks like they're wanting to spend more time on it (as I thought), and since I now know how to alter typesetting/graphics fees myself, now we do things for real. I'm glad I can resurrect the pieces of this 'good' piece, maybe I'll show it off when finished.

Patrick Shannon

'Dear valued customer, go home and die. Signed, your friendly graphic artist.'

http://www.patrickshannon.com/mwwc_sm.gif
My War With Culture (http://www.mywarwithculture.com)
Political incorrectness reinvented.

[~Digital_E.V.O~]

I just dealt with a situation lsat night...

Round 1: Someone wants me to paint a mural, replicating 'Blues for Allah' album cover, and I am getting 1/3 of what I asked. He's lucky I enjoy painting. I need to take a 1:30 ride to the fuçkérs house. And he wants it ON THE WALL... Turns out someone was feeding him info that was wrong.

Round 2: The guy I'm painting for promised some other schmuck I do the same for him. He says he wants to only pay $500 for the same sh!t. So I got the call... It's the same sort of mural, 4'x4' on the wall, somewhat detailed.. I gave a price like $2000, price includes materials. So he tries to negotiate.
Him: $600
Me: $2000
Him: $650
Me: $2000

I don't need his charity. What is even crazier is i just got a second job.. An extra 20 hours working, now...
Like I want to travel 3 hours, back and forth, work for 10 hours on replicating something, it would take at least 3 Saturdays.

What have you done for me lately... dun nah nah nuh

ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS,'IF IT'S SO FRIGGIN' EASY, THEN WHY AREN'T YOU DOING IT???'
{crickets chirp in the distant night as the moon beams dance along the face of cheapskate hogs}

45's are on their way back in...